10 wounds, worse than 9?

[Ishagu]

I would pay many $$$ for an alt sculpt of Guilliman T posing for HH or 40K, Abaddon is also pretty good in comparison. GW will bring back more primarchs at some point, they are popular and sell. What about at 10+ wounds rolling both armour save and invuln while taking half dmg for wounds or is "knights" still going to trump the idea?

You want to make Knights and underpriced Eldar vehicles more powerful?

[toaae]

I wasn't planning on returning to this thread, but I stumbled across this idea on reddit, and I just had to share it.

 

The author laments how our heroic characters (like my Warboss Brakgcrel Tortoof) don't get to lead from the front, charging in to smash face; instead, they hide behind their men, (wisely) using them as meat shields. He suggests an addition to the character targeting rule that makes a character untargetable if within 3" of another visible, eliginle-to-be-targeted unit.

 

While I'm sure there would be problems and exploits with that, I would really like something like that in game.

[Marshal Loss]

Yeah I wouldn't mind that at all. I really miss the imagery of a leader surrounded by their bodyguards instead of the current human shield wall thing 40k has going on. Having leaders be able to lead from the front without being shot in the face Indiana Jones style would be great.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah, the bland shooty screen blob is so boring. I am avoiding playing with my mates because the character's rules are not in a good place.

 

And despite some frater thinking their opinion is superior to that held by us poor ignorant fools that have only been playing since the 1980s, most editions of 40k have not been so hero-hammer focused.

[Ishagu]

What characters and rules are being abused?

In my experience it's not an issue beyond a few obnoxious lists that have fallen out of favour over the past few months.

[GrinNfool]

I personally have no issue with the character thing there has to be a threshold somewhere, and while I agree it can be silly you can't shoot the demi-god the size of a tank, its hardly the silliest thing that happens in 40k.  Where I do think 10 wounds is a huge deal is vehicles and monsters.  Ven dreads vs contemptors and redemptors; venoms vs raiders etc.  It makes most vehicles that only have 10 wounds worse, and if another option exists its almost always taken.  I think it could be pretty easily fixed (which means GW would never do it) by just making the minimum wound loss for a degradation 6 or 7 instead then revert to half wounds at where ever the half way point is..  10 wound vehicles specifically are just so awkwardly fragile.  As an example take 6 wounds off a razor back you could easily decide to focus your next AV shot elsewhere.  But if you took 6 wounds off that ven dread now you have to make a choice.  Do you devote a potential 6 damage shot to finish it off, or do you take another round of normal BS shooting from it.  Forcing your opponent into having to over commit damage instead of being happy to settle for the profile is the problem in a nutshell.

[MegaVolt87]

 

I would pay many $$$ for an alt sculpt of Guilliman T posing for HH or 40K, Abaddon is also pretty good in comparison. GW will bring back more primarchs at some point, they are popular and sell. What about at 10+ wounds rolling both armour save and invuln while taking half dmg for wounds or is "knights" still going to trump the idea?

You want to make Knights and underpriced Eldar vehicles more powerful?

No, just 10+ wound non vehicle characters.

[Ishagu]

There's not that many of those. I'd rather they simply adjust them individually if they need a boost.

[Beams]

Guard Commnder in a tank? lol

 

Stop complaining about Guilliman, guys. He is a very expensive character, costed accordingly (actually a bit over-priced).

Abandon is similar. They represent thematic commanders who lead forces, not disposable assets like a no name vehicle commander or a war-engine.

 

It works well in the game and allows expensive characters to function without joining units. It's also not really a big deal. Guilliman isn't a problem, Abaddon isn't a problem (he's more competitive than Guilliman anyways, the casual complainers just don't know the game well enough). You could argue that 10 Daemon Princes are more obnoxious. There aren't actually that many characters with 10+ wounds and typically they are much larger.

10 Wounds is a balancing factor and cut off point for larger units - I'm not saying it has been done correctly in all units as the costs might not be correct but that's another issue entirely.

 

For the people saying it breaks immersion, you are literally not understanding how the gaming pieces in the game work. The Guilliman model merely represents Guilliman in the game. In real life he wouldn't be standing still, waving his sword in the air unless directly engaged. Assume that he is out of sight, surrounded by his warriors. Or do you actually think that he drags around two braziers and the broken head of the Imperium eagle for him to stand atop? Do you think Abaddon is shuffling around the corpse of that Primaris Lieutenant?

 

Some people don't like hero hammer. I completely understand that, however if you don't this hobby is not for you. 40k is all about grand heroes of myth and legend leading armies directly, cutting down their foes. Either play an army with less emphasis on heroes or change your hobby from 40k to something else!

Guilliman is still a giant though -- when he's blocked by scouts of squat Marines, it's absurd. He's three times their height!

 

Your telling me that Scions or sisters, the best of the best of humanity, can't shoot him because they can't tell him apart from regular Marines?

 

Also, character shooting should just be a "if your outside of 6/12" you can't target them unless they are the nearest. If your within that distance, it should be fair game.

[Panzer]

 

Guard Commnder in a tank? lol

 

Stop complaining about Guilliman, guys. He is a very expensive character, costed accordingly (actually a bit over-priced).

Abandon is similar. They represent thematic commanders who lead forces, not disposable assets like a no name vehicle commander or a war-engine.

 

It works well in the game and allows expensive characters to function without joining units. It's also not really a big deal. Guilliman isn't a problem, Abaddon isn't a problem (he's more competitive than Guilliman anyways, the casual complainers just don't know the game well enough). You could argue that 10 Daemon Princes are more obnoxious. There aren't actually that many characters with 10+ wounds and typically they are much larger.

10 Wounds is a balancing factor and cut off point for larger units - I'm not saying it has been done correctly in all units as the costs might not be correct but that's another issue entirely.

 

For the people saying it breaks immersion, you are literally not understanding how the gaming pieces in the game work. The Guilliman model merely represents Guilliman in the game. In real life he wouldn't be standing still, waving his sword in the air unless directly engaged. Assume that he is out of sight, surrounded by his warriors. Or do you actually think that he drags around two braziers and the broken head of the Imperium eagle for him to stand atop? Do you think Abaddon is shuffling around the corpse of that Primaris Lieutenant?

 

Some people don't like hero hammer. I completely understand that, however if you don't this hobby is not for you. 40k is all about grand heroes of myth and legend leading armies directly, cutting down their foes. Either play an army with less emphasis on heroes or change your hobby from 40k to something else!

Guilliman is still a giant though -- when he's blocked by scouts of squat Marines, it's absurd. He's three times their height!

 

And Daemon Princes and Heralds etc. can hide behind Nurglings. Necron characters can hide behind their swarm thingys. Orks can hide behind Snotlings. It's just a mechanic so our characters don't get blasted from the board turn 1, I really don't mind. ^^

[Ishagu]

Yeah, it's just a gameplay mechanic.

 

If you want more realism you should start by asking why Guardsmen can run twice as fast as Space Marine or Eldar infantry, or why a cultist with a rusty pipe striking a Landraiders or Leman Russ prevents the tank from shooting. How about fighter jets blocking charges? Lol

 

Don't apply real world sense to game mechanics. In real life you never have equal sized or evenly matched armies engage at close range so the whole scenario can be questioned. You ever played a video game where a wooden door stops your super powered character from progressing? Same thing

[Interrogator Stobz]

Also things that need fixing, thanks for pointing them out.

But they are for another thread ;)

[Ishagu]

If you want realism join the forces.

 

I want to play tabletop warGAMES

[Interrogator Stobz]

I know, you didn't, and I did.

But I still believe that GW could improve. Not a belief based in negativity, but in hope.

[Ishagu]

Yeah there's definitely a few things thar could be better.

 

I actually think supersonic flyers need to be looked at but a lot of the other things are pretty good and I'm happy with.

[Beams]

If you want realism join the forces.

 

I want to play tabletop warGAMES