169 replies to this topic

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

We've also got the fact that some of the bonuses stack pretty well with often overlooked abilities like the ones the Klaivex and Striking Scorpion Exarch have to either get tons of extra attacks or pile up extra damage. The stratagem where you put a Drukhari, a Harlequin, and an Asuryani unit all together to get bonus attacks could be interesting. If you use the Shrine of the Whispering God, you can also have Incubi charging and hitting on 2's, re-rolling if you use Ancestor's Grace on them first...and they can have an Invuln save from being near a psyker. Could be fun.

[Panzer]

The biggest problem will be the same as always with melee in 40k. How to deliver those units without them getting shot to bits on the way.

[Black Blow Fly]

I still remember people saying Ynnari didn’t stack. Well now you’re right.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

With Raiders, Webway Ambush, and other tricks, as well as Rising Crescendo and Power from Pain (esp Eager to Flay) being back now, and a biker unit being able to Advance and Charge, the Ynnari should be OK to get into CC.

 

With FLY and Flip Belts able to leap over screens during the charge phase again per the current FAQ, Harlies, bikes, etc should receive a big boost in their ability to get into melee. Given that the Ynnari relics make some "Smash Elf" builds possible for characters who are on pretty small bases, that could get interesting.

 

Also, now I see why they talk about the Visarch rolling with Incubi in the fluff portion of the article. He lets everybody reroll 1's around him in CC and can go in any of the subfactions' transports. After soulburst kicks off, the Incubi (via the Shrine strat) are hitting on 2's when they charge, rerolling 1's and they still keep Power from Pain, so if this is turn 2, they're rerolling charge. Could be fun coming out of a Raider or via a webway ambush.

Edited by GreaterChickenofTzeentch, 29 April 2019 - 08:17 PM.

[Black Blow Fly]

I’ll wager a bet most Ynnari players aren’t excited about being better in melee now .

[wildweasel]

With Raiders, Webway Ambush, and other tricks, as well as Rising Crescendo and Power from Pain (esp Eager to Flay) being back now, and a biker unit being able to Advance and Charge, the Ynnari should be OK to get into CC.

 

With FLY and Flip Belts able to leap over screens during the charge phase again per the current FAQ, Harlies, bikes, etc should receive a big boost in their ability to get into melee. Given that the Ynnari relics make some "Smash Elf" builds possible for characters who are on pretty small bases, that could get interesting.

 

Also, now I see why they talk about the Visarch rolling with Incubi in the fluff portion of the article. He lets everybody reroll 1's around him in CC and can go in any of the subfactions' transports. After soulburst kicks off, the Incubi (via the Shrine strat) are hitting on 2's when they charge, rerolling 1's and they still keep Power from Pain, so if this is turn 2, they're rerolling charge. Could be fun coming out of a Raider or via a webway ambush.

 

And it's mostly T3 models, generally with okay saves at best, doing all that.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

With Raiders, Webway Ambush, and other tricks, as well as Rising Crescendo and Power from Pain (esp Eager to Flay) being back now, and a biker unit being able to Advance and Charge, the Ynnari should be OK to get into CC.

 

With FLY and Flip Belts able to leap over screens during the charge phase again per the current FAQ, Harlies, bikes, etc should receive a big boost in their ability to get into melee. Given that the Ynnari relics make some "Smash Elf" builds possible for characters who are on pretty small bases, that could get interesting.

 

Also, now I see why they talk about the Visarch rolling with Incubi in the fluff portion of the article. He lets everybody reroll 1's around him in CC and can go in any of the subfactions' transports. After soulburst kicks off, the Incubi (via the Shrine strat) are hitting on 2's when they charge, rerolling 1's and they still keep Power from Pain, so if this is turn 2, they're rerolling charge. Could be fun coming out of a Raider or via a webway ambush.

 

And it's mostly T3 models, generally with okay saves at best, doing all that.

 

Killy enough and with things like Shield of Ynnead and Lightning Fast Reactions that it's probably not a big deal, plus it's not happening in a vacuum. The whole army could be built to get close really fast and Harlies tend to do fine once they get in. Shining Spears, etc. are still around. Even if the Incubi bit doesn't work (and it might not), the Smash Elf thing probably will because you can the character rocking the Lost Shroud and one of the damage-mitigating Warlord Traits, depending on what weapon build you want. Making a fast, broadly Assault-focused army should have a chance of success with these tools. May take some practice, but I think it's there.

[Toxichobbit]

Gaze of Nagash? Wrong death god?

 

Ynnead does not serve.

[Black Blow Fly]

Well not yet but things change...

[Ishagu]

The biggest problem will be the same as always with melee in 40k. How to deliver those units without them getting shot to bits on the way.

Wave Serpents!

[Black Blow Fly]

I don’t Ishagu Orks have an answer to Serpents.

[Toxichobbit]

Well not yet but things change...

 

True. He/she ain't no Settra

[Karhedron]

The biggest problem will be the same as always with melee in 40k. How to deliver those units without them getting shot to bits on the way.

Wave Serpents!

Can units still mix and match Transports or is that limited to just Yvraine and the Visarch going where they like? I rather liked the idea of D-scythe Wraithguard in a DE Raider for drive-by flamings.

[Finkmilkana]

 

 

The biggest problem will be the same as always with melee in 40k. How to deliver those units without them getting shot to bits on the way.

Wave Serpents!

 

Can units still mix and match Transports or is that limited to just Yvraine and the Visarch going where they like? I rather liked the idea of D-scythe Wraithguard in a DE Raider for drive-by flamings.

 

Doesn't seem possible, since the keywords don't match.

[Dulahan]

At least on the Asuryani side.  Even our dedicated Melee units just aren't that good at melee.

 

Scorpions?  OK, the main reason they're scary is lucking out on Scorp Mask mortal wounds.  At least they're Str 4 though, but no real AP.

 

Banshees?  Str 3.... whoopdeedoo.  Power Swords are nice-ish though.  But it's not like you are wounding much very easily.

 

And Wraith Blades?  Expensive.  Expensive.  Expensive!

 

All of the above suffer from small units, and thus, no real good answer to Horde Melee.  An Ork or Daemon horde army will be almost impossible to deal with.  You just don't have enough attacks AND shots due to small sizes.

 

There's also Storm Guardians - but I've never built any of them, at least they can get 20 strong units, but yeah.... Str 3 again.  T3. 

 

I personally don't have any Dark Eldar or Harlequins either, so a bit hard to know with them.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So your argument against a melee buff is that...you don't support your melee units with shooters?

[Dulahan]

So your argument against a melee buff is that...you don't support your melee units with shooters?

 

No, that even being supported they're still not that good, despite buff. 

[Karhedron]

So your argument against a melee buff is that...you don't support your melee units with shooters?

 
No, that even being supported they're still not that good, despite buff.

The problem with Eldar is that it is far more cost-effective to build a shooty list with some counter-charge elements than it is to build a melee list with some fire-support elements.

Ynnari gives a boost to melee units but when starting from a fairly low baseline, it is not enough to make an army built around such units competitive. There is some synergy with units like the Visarch, Yncarne and some of the powers and stratagems but it does not look enough to be competitive at first glance. I may be wrong and someone may unlock some hidden gems here. I haven't play-tested it yet, I am just theory-hammering.

My current hunch is that the best use of Ynnari is going to be taking your existing counter-charge units that don't benefit much from your primary detachment trait (yes, I'm looking at you Alaitoc ) and bundling them in an Ynnari detachment with either the Visarch to buff their melee ability or Yvraine for some extra psychic support.

I want to love the Yncarne as the model is gorgeous but when you compare his stats and price to a Daemon Prince, I cannot help but feeling short-changed.

[Ishagu]

Yncarne definitely has play. You can insert him into basically any Eldar list however and use his ability to smash an opponent's back field lines after some key threats are dealt with.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Yncarne definitely has play. You can insert him into basically any Eldar list however and use his ability to smash an opponent's back field lines after some key threats are dealt with.

Additionally, he can pop up where needed right before you're going to need to take morale and make that a nonissue as well as adding some psychic punch.

So your argument against a melee buff is that...you don't support your melee units with shooters?

No, that even being supported they're still not that good, despite buff.

The problem with Eldar is that it is far more cost-effective to build a shooty list with some counter-charge elements than it is to build a melee list with some fire-support elements.

Ynnari gives a boost to melee units but when starting from a fairly low baseline, it is not enough to make an army built around such units competitive. There is some synergy with units like the Visarch, Yncarne and some of the powers and stratagems but it does not look enough to be competitive at first glance. I may be wrong and someone may unlock some hidden gems here. I haven't play-tested it yet, I am just theory-hammering.

My current hunch is that the best use of Ynnari is going to be taking your existing counter-charge units that don't benefit much from your primary detachment trait (yes, I'm looking at you Alaitoc ) and bundling them in an Ynnari detachment with either the Visarch to buff their melee ability or Yvraine for some extra psychic support.

I want to love the Yncarne as the model is gorgeous but when you compare his stats and price to a Daemon Prince, I cannot help but feeling short-changed.

The efficiency is a problem. I think you can make a good Assault army out of Ynnari. However, why not just make a BETTER shooting army out of the other stuff? (fluff and personaly playstyle aside).