Looking to build a 1k Thousands Sons army, need help

[DavionStar]

Hey there folks. I was lead here from the TGA forums to get some help making an army for 40k! I was planning on building a Disciples of Tzeentch army where I could use some of the models in a Thousand Sons army. My local shop focuses on 40k more though so I might build this one first.

 

Anyway, here's what I'd like to work with. I'm not looking for a super competitive build. Just something that works and isn't hot garbage. I have a few things I really want to include and others I have less an attachment to.

 

NEEDS:

Rubric Marines: I can't field TS without the dustbins. It just isn't right. Also I already bought a box of 'em.

 

Tzaangors: For my DoT army I was planning a unit of 10 Tzaangors, a unit of 6 Enlightened, and a Shaman. My TS force doesn't need to field all of these guys, but I'd like to use some at least.

 

Scarab Occult Terminators:

Not a STRICT need but I love termies in general. ^^;

 

WANTS:

Defiler: I know I'll need some anti-armor and I love how these look. I'm ok with bringing a Predator or something else instead though.

 

Exalted Sorcerer: Another set of gorgeous models, but I'm flexible. (Proxying them in for another unit if I can is an option)

 

Other than that I'm good. The only thing I want to avoid is running a ton of Horrors if that's a thing in 40k

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can give. :)

[Archaeinox]

What sort of points level do you play at? I can offer some general advice related to the units you listed, since I also play Disciples of Tzeentch in AoS.

 

1. Tzaangors are pretty functional at 20man and 30man unit size. In Age of Sigmar they can be ran as 10man units to fulfill your Battleline requirements. In 40k, though, Dark Matter Crystal and then spells on a big unit is pretty king. How many units you take in 40k depends on how many Rubric Marines you want to take, I guess.

 

2. Scarab Occult are nice. The 10man bomb is nice. Sometimes I just deploy it. Just be aware that Damage 2 weaponry will make it disappear. Which is why against more skilled players I take two units of 5. However, there's nothing bad about a single 5man unit. Max out their shooting weaponry (Soulreapers are less important now that Bolter Discipline is a thing).

 

3. Personally I run 2-3 units of Rubric Marines in every list. If you only want one, make it a 7-10man squad, give them all Warpflamers and put them in a Rhino. If you want two, give one boltguns and a soulreaper and make them babysit objectives.

 

4. Exalted Sorcerers are alright. They need to be around your tanks, bolter rubrics or scarabs somehow. If you take a Tzaangor Shaman, Exalted Sorcerers dont have to babysit the Tzaangors.

 

5. If you take a Predator, take 2. They are better in pairs. 

 

6. Don't worry, Horrors suck unless you are building the list around spamming them. 

 

7. Tzaangor Enlightened with bows are great. They're super solid in AoS. A cheap 6man unit is nice. Give them a Shaman.. 

[DavionStar]

Thanks for the info!

I was planning on running with 1000 points as that seemed to be a general "small army" size. But you make a good point. I should ask my game shop what size armies they usually run. I haven't played any games yet, I'm actually still in the process of painting my KO army for AoS.

 

Edit: Asked today while picking up the Codex, they usually play 2k point games, but would probably play 1k games as well, so I'll start out at 1k.

[Wyzariel]

 I'm not looking for a super competitive build. Just something that works and isn't hot garbage. 

 

That's not how it works on the internet. Something is only either super competitive, or hot garbage! There's no in between! Pick a side!

 

Jokes aside, as far as my experience and internet advice are concern, here are my thoughts that hopefully can help you.

 

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Exalted Sorcerors:

Generally considered hot garbage because by paying a little bit more, you can get Ahriman who knows an extra spell, can cast an extra spell, has two non-warlords trait by default (the one that improves invulnerable saves and +1 to casting). If he is your warlord, he gets a storm shield too.

 

Exalted Sorcerors even lose out to Terminator Sorcerors because Terminator Sorcerors have access to Chaos Familiar, which allows them a potential +2 to cast on the first spell if he is taken as a warlord, and can deep strike without paying CP. Oh he has a inferno-combi bolter too.

 

Dual power sword Exalted Sorceror with Seer's Bane relic can be cute, but if a CC monster is what you are looking for, you're much better served with a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, especially since he can cast spells from Discipline of Tzeentch (Gaze of Fate is incredible).

 

The only reason to ever consider an Exalted Sorceror would be if you lack the points for Ahriman but still wants someone that can give the Reroll 1's to hit aura, which the Termi Sorc and Daemon Prince does not have. Personally, I use Exalted Sorceror because I prefer "my dudes" than named characters usually.

 

Daemon Engines:

Generally considered hot garbage as they require a ton of psychic and stratagem support to be okay. Furthermore, with the new CSM releases recently, Daemon Engines in Thousand Sons are even worse as you are much better off taking them in a C:CSM detachment. However, I personally run dual Defilers and dual Maulerfiends because giant crab robot and dinobots make up for all of their flaws and then some. 

 

Also, when all your psychic powers successfully go off on that one Defiler, making him hit on 3's (prescience), rerolling 1's (Lord of the Thousand Sons aura), has 4++ (Weaver of Fates) and -1 to hit by enemies (Glamour of Tzeentch), and you roll a 6 on your Battlecannon shots (which is rerollable for free via Gaze of Fate if you whiff it) and a +1 to wound (Flickering Flames), you will get the feeling that Tzeentch has exalted you, just as planned.

 

Scarab Occult Terminators:

They generally suffer from the fact that Termis are just not really good. But Thousand Sons Termis do have the advantage of good stock weapons and comes with a Sorceror as icing. I personally prefer bringing them in squads of 5 as they are usually not the focus of my psychic powers and stratagems. More squads means more smite.

 

Tzaangors:

If you have a DoT army for AoS you are in luck because all Tzaangor units are incredibly good. The only negative is that well, they are not very Thousand Sons. Heck, one might even say they don't even look 40k. Also, with the recent nerfs to Cultists, Tzaangors are better than ever with turn 1 charges still possible via Dark Matter Crystal. Bow Tzaangors are also very competitive to the point of cheesy.

 

Rubrics:

Rubrics are pretty decent, but I won't recommend taking more than 1 squad. And if you take 1 squad, I won't recommend not maxing the squad size, especially since they can deep strike turn 1 with Dark Matter Crystal or turn 1 via Webway Infiltration. If you focus all your psychic and stratagem support on a squad of 20 rubrics, they may even take the heat off your daemon engines to allow them to actually do something, hopefully. Of course, the opposite might happen, where people just avoid the rubric squad since they pretty slow.

 

Some people swear by having a few warpflamers for assault defense, but I prefer to just max out the rapid fire bolters to maximize the first round of shooting. I also don't usually like to go too close to my target with my rubrics anyway if I can help it. But I do have a squad of warpflamer ONLY rubrics, 10 man strong, chuck inside a rhino. When they do reach their target, which they usually do cause my opponents tend to worry about Maulerfiends more, it can be quite fun.

 

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Hopefully this helps you! Sorry in advance if any of my information and opinions are outdated and/or inaccurate.

[DavionStar]

Alright, thanks guys. I have thrown together what could possibly be called "an army list".

 

996 Points

 

HQ

- Exalted Sorcerer on Disc (Warlord, Otherworldly Prescience, Doombolt, Prescience, Plasma Pistol)

 

Troops

- Rubric Marines (Sorc w/Plasma Pistol and Doombolt, 8x Rubrics w/Boltguns, 1 Rubric w/Soulreaper)

- Tzaangors (Twistbray, 19xTzaangor w/Blades)

 

Elites

- Helbrute (Missle Launcher, Twin lascannon)

- Scarab Occult Term (Sorc w/Doombolt, 3xTerm w/Bolter, 1xTerm w/Soulreaper)

- Tzaangor Shaman (Firestorm, Dark Matter Crystal)

 

Fast Attack

- Tzaangor Enlightened (Aviarch, Spears, 5xEnlightened)

 

I know it's taking a ton of different unit types but I'm hoping they can work together well. Helbrute is there as dedicated anti-armor.

 

Alternately, I can drop the Helbrute and Enlightened for a Defiler instead with a Combi-melta and Twin lascannon.

[Wyzariel]

 

Alright, thanks guys. I have thrown together what could possibly be called "an army list".

 

996 Points

 

HQ

- Exalted Sorcerer on Disc (Warlord, Otherworldly Prescience, Doombolt, Prescience, Plasma Pistol)

 

Troops

- Rubric Marines (Sorc w/Plasma Pistol and Doombolt, 8x Rubrics w/Boltguns, 1 Rubric w/Soulreaper)

- Tzaangors (Twistbray, 19xTzaangor w/Blades)

 

Elites

- Helbrute (Missle Launcher, Twin lascannon)

- Scarab Occult Term (Sorc w/Doombolt, 3xTerm w/Bolter, 1xTerm w/Soulreaper)

- Tzaangor Shaman (Firestorm, Dark Matter Crystal)

 

Fast Attack

- Tzaangor Enlightened (Aviarch, Spears, 5xEnlightened)

 

I know it's taking a ton of different unit types but I'm hoping they can work together well. Helbrute is there as dedicated anti-armor.

 

Alternately, I can drop the Helbrute and Enlightened for a Defiler instead with a Combi-melta and Twin lascannon.

 

 

A few feedback about your list:

 

1. If you are going to cast Doom Bolt with your Exalted Sorcerer, you will want the High Magister Warlord Trait. The +1 to psychic test is crucial to pull off that WC9 spell. And unless you are playing against a lot of snipers, you won't need to worry about taking saves on him much with careful positioning. However, I think Doom Bolt is a terrible spell overall. If you really want a killy spell, Gift of Chaos (WC6 from Dark Hereticus Discipline) is much better as you can outright kill a T3 Special Character on a 4+ and a T4 Character on a 5+. Much much more reliable than Doom Bolt.

    

2. Plasma pistol is an excellent choice for Exalted Sorcerers, as they get to reroll Gets Hot. A supercharge plasma shot is also as good as a Smite. Just bear in mind that there's a very real chance for them to still die outright from bad luck. You will also most likely not be casting prescience on him for Gets Hot immunity as he is already BS 2 and he is only 1 model.

    

3. Exalted Sorcerer on disc is great. Just bear in mind that he loses the Infantry keyword which him an invalid target for several things, such as VotLW. Of course, you most likely won't be using that Stratagem on a single model but it's just something to keep in mind.

    

4. Do not even bother casting Doom Bolt on your Aspiring Sorcerer. Bearing in mind the very real risk of triggering perils that can potentially take down 3 other rubric marines, you will only want to risk that for something that's more likely to go off, such as Weaver of Fates (WC6), which is also great for keeping your Rubrics alive.

    

5. You are very close to qualify for 5cp for bringing a Battalion. I suggest splitting your Tzaangors into 2 units of 10, remove the disc from your Exalted Sorcerer, as you can just footslog him together with your Rubrics. Although I think you intend to use him to buff your Enlightened with prescience, so probably not an option for your strategy. You should also consider shedding some points here and there (taking away the Plasma Pistol from your Aspiring Sorcerer, for instance). That way, you can squeeze in one more HQ (basic sorcerer).

    

6. Helbrutes are good for backline heavy support. Just bear in mind that Thousand Sons helbrutes are objectively worse than C:CSM ones as they do not any added benefit for being Thousand Sons. Unless you intend to have your Exalted Sorcerer babysit them for the reroll 1's to hit. But this is not recommended as they are better of giving that aura to your Rubrics or even escorting your Enlightened to give them Prescience. Personally though, I would suggest a Lascannon Predator. Repositioning a predator is a lot easier than a helbrute. Plus, it is more CP efficient to make them move without suffering -1 to hit via Stratagem (Blasphemous Machines). Although they do have a degrading wound profile where the Helbrute doesn't and I understand that points are a limiting factor. Also, bear in mind the degrading wound profile can be somewhat offset by Temporal Manipulation (WC6).

    

7. Your Scarab Occult Termi Sorceror should not bother with Doombolt for the same reason as with the Aspring Sorcerer. Since I've already recommended Weaver of Fates for your Aspiring Sorcerer, and you seem to be really into dealing out mind bullets, you can opt for Firestorm of Tzeentch. But I would recommend Glamour of Tzeentch though, as again, it makes your Terminators better at surviving. Also, Hellfyre Missile Rack is much better than Soulreaper Cannon. If you can't take both, you should always take the Hellfyre Missile Rack. You can shed plasma pistols to make room for this (1x Hellfyre Missile Rack is better than 2 x plasma pistols). Otherwise, I suggest just basic loadouts as the Soulreaper Cannon has become hot garbage in light of the new beta bolter rules.

    

8. I think bow tzaangors are better than spears, since bow tzaangors can fall back and shoot. They also can advance and shoot.

    

9. An anti-tank helbrute + enlightened are much better for your list than a Defiler with lascannon as you neither have the psychic support nor CP needed to make daemons engines passable. I won't even consider dropping helbrute + enlightened for lascannon predator.

Overall, I think it's a good starting point for a Thousand Sons army. I think the most glaring issues are the Doombolts you seem to prioritize over some other vastly superior and more reliable powers.

 

Also, you really need to take a battalion for the 5cp's. Thousand Sons is an extremely CP hungry army. You will need all the CP you can get to offset perils, swap spells out via Chaos Familiar stratagem, as well as the option to deepstrike infantry.

 

And speaking of Chaos Familiar stratagem, you are able to use that to swap out any spells, including Smite, for spells from the Discipline of Tzeentch, which is usually only allowed to be taken by Daemon psykers. This means that by paying 1 cp, you are able to take Gaze of Fate (WC6) for essentially rerolls that does not cost a CP.

You can also consider using this to take Flickering Flames (WC5), which synergizes well with an Exalted Sorceror on disc of Tzeentch as they have the Daemon keyword. This means that a supercharged Plasma pistol will be wounding T7 on 2's without VotLW.

 

Alternatively, you can also give the Exalted Sorcerer the Coruscator Relic, which is an Inferno Bolt Pistol that fires 3 shots with D3 damage. With BS 2 rerolling 1's, as well as +1 to wound via Flickering Flames, that's a lot of potential damage and much more reliable than Doom Bolt. Flickering flames also works with bow tzaangors.

 

Also, the spell swap is generally accepted by the community to be permanent too.

 

And I think I've rambled on too much already. Time to stop. Sorry for being long-winded.

[DavionStar]

 

And I think I've rambled on too much already. Time to stop. Sorry for being long-winded.

 

 

Not at all! There are a LOT of rules, big and small, that I'm straight up not aware of. And I greatly appreciate all the input! I did, admittedly, kind of just throw a lot of the spells in there at semi-random. XD I did pick up the Codex recently but didn't have it handy when making the list. I need to give the rules a good, solid read.

 

Alright, I've made some modifications to the list. I've been using Battlescribe but just transcribing it in shorthand to save space. I've had to make some changes due to adding the extra Sorcerer.

 

 

999 Pts, Battallion Detachment (+5 CP)

 

HQ

- Exalted Sorcerer w/Plasma pistol, Prescience, Doombolt

- Sorcerer w/Temporal Manipulation

 

Troops

- Rubric Marines: Sorc w/ Weaver of Fates; 9xRubrics

- Tzaangors: Twistbray, 9xBlades

- Tzaangors: Twistbray, 9xBlades

 

Elites

- Helbrute w/Missile Launcher, Twin Lascannon

- Scarab Occult Terminators: Sorc w/Glamour of Tzeentch; 4xTerms

- Tzaangor Shaman w/Dark Matter Crystal, Firestorm

 

Fast Attack

- Tzaangor Enlightened: Aviarch, 2xEnlightened, Greatbows

 

A couple of the sacrifices I had to make were the Soulreaper cannon on the Rubrics and chopping the Enlightened down to 3 models total. I'll probably model the Soulreaper anyway and just count it as standard. (might do the same for the Termies just for the looks)

[Wyzariel]

 

 

And I think I've rambled on too much already. Time to stop. Sorry for being long-winded.

 

 

Not at all! There are a LOT of rules, big and small, that I'm straight up not aware of. And I greatly appreciate all the input! I did, admittedly, kind of just throw a lot of the spells in there at semi-random. XD I did pick up the Codex recently but didn't have it handy when making the list. I need to give the rules a good, solid read.

 

Alright, I've made some modifications to the list. I've been using Battlescribe but just transcribing it in shorthand to save space. I've had to make some changes due to adding the extra Sorcerer.

 

 

999 Pts, Battallion Detachment (+5 CP)

 

HQ

- Exalted Sorcerer w/Plasma pistol, Prescience, Doombolt

- Sorcerer w/Temporal Manipulation

 

Troops

- Rubric Marines: Sorc w/ Weaver of Fates; 9xRubrics

- Tzaangors: Twistbray, 9xBlades

- Tzaangors: Twistbray, 9xBlades

 

Elites

- Helbrute w/Missile Launcher, Twin Lascannon

- Scarab Occult Terminators: Sorc w/Glamour of Tzeentch; 4xTerms

- Tzaangor Shaman w/Dark Matter Crystal, Firestorm

 

Fast Attack

- Tzaangor Enlightened: Aviarch, 2xEnlightened, Greatbows

 

A couple of the sacrifices I had to make were the Soulreaper cannon on the Rubrics and chopping the Enlightened down to 3 models total. I'll probably model the Soulreaper anyway and just count it as standard. (might do the same for the Termies just for the looks)

 

List looks better! Remember that Sorcerers can take two spells too. Also people tend to recommend that you only swap in Temporal Manipulation via Chaos Familiar Stratagem when you need it, as its usage is quite situational and limited (things are usually at max wounds or dead, rarely in between). Bear in mind that things that potentially can be healed in your list are only the Exalted Sorcerer, Sorcerer and Helbrute.  Additionally, none of these have degrading wound profiles, which makes the spell slightly ever less important.

 

Also, your list has the foundation of a Tzaangor heavy army. So a full unit of regular Tzaangors, Bow Tzaangors and even Spear Tzaangors as well as a couple of Mutaliths are logical progression for your army expansion. But you might not like this as you probably didn't sign up for Codex: Tzaangors.

 

if that's the case, then just go Rubric heavy with predators for heavy support.

 

Only consider Daemon Engines if you really like the models as they are generally quite bad and requires lots of support to be passable.

 

As for Termis, I have mixed feelings about them. Same goes with Magnus too. 

[DavionStar]

 

List looks better! Remember that Sorcerers can take two spells too. Also people tend to recommend that you only swap in Temporal Manipulation via Chaos Familiar Stratagem when you need it, as its usage is quite situational and limited (things are usually at max wounds or dead, rarely in between). Bear in mind that things that potentially can be healed in your list are only the Exalted Sorcerer, Sorcerer and Helbrute.  Additionally, none of these have degrading wound profiles, which makes the spell slightly ever less important.

 

Awesome! I'll go forward with this list then. With the spell updates you suggested.

 

And for the record, I actually do like the Tzaangors. Partially cause I can use them in this and AoS, but I just think they're neat. If any CSM army would have mutants wearing fancy looking armor, it'd be the ones under the God of Magic. ;P That said, I wouldn't mind figuring out a kitbash to put them in something like the Chaos Cultists wear. That said, I don't want them to be my entire army. |D

 

When I build up to 2k I'll probably get more Rubrics more than anything else, maybe some more vehicles. I'll have to see what's good to build up to. But this gives me a good starting point so when I'm ready to start getting more models, I know what to get!

 

Thanks so much again for all the help.