Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Apocalypse - Epic at 40K Scale?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
128 replies to this topic

#26
Robbienw

Robbienw

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,323 posts

I hope this will bring us another round of large plastic kits like some of the previous Apocalypse releases :D


  • Honda, Burni, Lexington and 4 others like this

#27
Triszin

Triszin

    ++ INTERFECTOR ROBUSTUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 7,029 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio

I hope this will bring us another round of large plastic kits like some of the previous Apocalypse releases :D


Coughs, or a new armegeddon
  • Amadeo likes this
banana

#28
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,126 posts
My guess? It'll be a lot more slimmed down than normal 40k, reducing units to full formations. Hopefully it also means titans are fixed properly, as they are pretty borked in normal 40k.

One thing it hopefully gets right is things like the Daemon Primarchs. In regular 40k they are too vulnerable, hopefully this is a cool gametype where they can shine.
  • Nemesor Tyriks likes this

#29
Nemesor Tyriks

Nemesor Tyriks

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,613 posts
  • Location:Kolvir

My guess? It'll be a lot more slimmed down than normal 40k, reducing units to full formations. Hopefully it also means titans are fixed properly, as they are pretty borked in normal 40k.
One thing it hopefully gets right is things like the Daemon Primarchs. In regular 40k they are too vulnerable, hopefully this is a cool gametype where they can shine.

Yeah, they said it is its own rule system. I think people are assuming it's going to be 40k but bigger when it's going to be a new game.
  • RipOffProductions likes this

#30
Marshal Rohr

Marshal Rohr

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,786 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Faction: 7th Terran Regiment
The coolest course of action would be the movement and range rules being ambivalent enough to scale down to Titanicus for some truly epic games ;)
  • FlamingDeth, Shard of Magnus, Battybattybats and 1 other like this

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

+++The Iterators Guild+++

A Group for Lore Minded Hobbyists and World Building Projects

 


#31
Lexington

Lexington

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,660 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
  • Faction: Orks!
I’m actually kinda hoping it’s so streamlined, you could shrink the measurements and play it with Epic models. It’s doubtful - even in the already-large-scale 40K, they’ve got a silly focus on the difference between a sword and an axe - but it’s early yet, so hope can reign.

Edit - Somehow managed to miss Rohr beating me to the punch on almost this exact thought...

Edited by Lexington, 28 March 2019 - 12:10 PM.

  • Marshal Rohr, Master Commander Ajax and Shard of Magnus like this

gallery_23421_16101_14266.png


#32
Sandlemad

Sandlemad

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,331 posts

Kinda wild that they're using an Imperator titan head as the icon.


  • SickSix and Vykes like this

#33
Doctor Perils

Doctor Perils

    ++ CUNICULARIUS APOLOGUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,010 posts
  • Location:Bourges, France
  • Faction: Heretic Astartes (various)
This could be interesting - I've never played apocalypse and would like to, but never had the courage to commit to a full weekend for two turns of a game. If they do manage to pare it down to a few hours I'd definitely be interested - even if it ends up being a full day for a full game.

The movement trays could also be of use for casual 40k games :)

One thing that concerns me is how big the box looks :/
sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#34
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,126 posts

One thing that concerns me is how big the box looks :/


But it's meant to be the BIG game system 😋 !

#35
Warhead01

Warhead01

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,897 posts
  • Location:Crescent City Fl.
  • Faction: The Deleted.

I'll pass on this one. To me Apocalypse as a game ended with 5th edition and the last Apoc games I played were more or less just games of 40K at high points levels with super heavy units added to my army. A new Apocalypse game could be fun but I have no desire to push movement trays around full of my 40K mini's.  A new game using smaller models would to me be more interesting but I would still pass on it at this point.  


uberwolve 15/01/03 - 6/18/17  username replaced 

http://warhead01.blogspot.com/
Fix Bayonets! 
Hail Hail Freedonia! 

 


#36
Spleenex

Spleenex

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 185 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC

It seems completely unnecessary and redundant as 7th and 8th were both apocalypse editions rolled into it. Plus Epic functions as a 10mm game. As a 28mm game not only is it going to be so horrendously expensive that only a very small number of people are going to be able to afford it (several hundred dollar titans?!), but it's going to be a pain to cram onto a table and have anything but just a moshpit. Maybe two tables combined?

 

100% this. If you want to make a game with titans, flyers, superheavies, etc., the only rational way to do so is at a smaller model scale. With recent advancements in modeling, casting, 3D printing, etc., most 40k models would still look great at 15mm or even 10mm scale. Then leave the 32mm models for TRUE skirmish gaming - a few squads and maybe 1 or two light vehicles per side. 

 

But honestly...if your game requires movement trays, designing it for 32mm scale models is like my chunky-butt cat trying to crawl into a poster shipping tube: it's just physically never going to work, no matter how hard you try, and will likely only result in a lot of crying and disappointment.  

 

It's true that I'm something of a scale partisan: I've always preferred smaller scales, and would love to be able too use my AT18 titans in a game of rebooted Epic. But my issue here is really just one of practicality and logic. Who has space to play a game like this? Not to mention the cost. If people end up enjoying it, that's great. But it just seems to me that if the GW team were going to go through all the effort of developing a whole new rules set, doing so at a more rational scale so people could actually play it would make more sense.


  • Warhead01, Hollenweger, Exilyth and 1 other like this

"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl" - Napoleon


#37
wildweasel

wildweasel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,702 posts

Apoc is and has always been super popular.

That it’s super slow and clunky cause it’s just 40K with more and bigger models is well-known and established - but people keep playing it anyways cause to them the spectacle is the point.

Apoc as its own game system is pretty much a no-brainer.


Edited by wildweasel, 28 March 2019 - 02:50 PM.

  • Honda, Master Commander Ajax, Interrogator Stobz and 7 others like this

#38
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,126 posts


It seems completely unnecessary and redundant as 7th and 8th were both apocalypse editions rolled into it. Plus Epic functions as a 10mm game. As a 28mm game not only is it going to be so horrendously expensive that only a very small number of people are going to be able to afford it (several hundred dollar titans?!), but it's going to be a pain to cram onto a table and have anything but just a moshpit. Maybe two tables combined?


100% this. If you want to make a game with titans, flyers, superheavies, etc., the only rational way to do so is at a smaller model scale. With recent advancements in modeling, casting, 3D printing, etc., most 40k models would still look great at 15mm or even 10mm scale. Then leave the 32mm models for TRUE skirmish gaming - a few squads and maybe 1 or two light vehicles per side.

But honestly...if your game requires movement trays, designing it for 32mm scale models is like my chunky-butt cat trying to crawl into a poster shipping tube: it's just physically never going to work, no matter how hard you try, and will likely only result in a lot of crying and disappointment.

It's true that I'm something of a scale partisan: I've always preferred smaller scales, and would love to be able too use my AT18 titans in a game of rebooted Epic. But my issue here is really just one of practicality and logic. Who has space to play a game like this? Not to mention the cost. If people end up enjoying it, that's great. But it just seems to me that if the GW team were going to go through all the effort of developing a whole new rules set, doing so at a more rational scale so people could actually play it would make more sense.

They aren't making a new game though.

Its a new way to play 40k on a larger scale, not the new epic etc.

Not go mention, rules are a lot quicker to create than models.

In addition this will hopefully let a few buddie all bring their stuff for a mass scale war, rather than all having to buy new things.
  • Rik Lightstar and Bruce Malcom like this

#39
wildweasel

wildweasel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,702 posts

Get ready to battle bigger, better. The new Apocalypse is a ground-up reimagining of mass battles in the 41st Millennium – a totally new ruleset designed to capture the spectacular carnage, grand strategy and high drama of Warhammer 40,000’s biggest battles. With this system, you’ll be able to fight in the kinds of conflicts once confined to art and lore, brought to life on your tabletop, all in an evening after work or school.



#40
Nemesor Tyriks

Nemesor Tyriks

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,613 posts
  • Location:Kolvir

It seems completely unnecessary and redundant as 7th and 8th were both apocalypse editions rolled into it. Plus Epic functions as a 10mm game. As a 28mm game not only is it going to be so horrendously expensive that only a very small number of people are going to be able to afford it (several hundred dollar titans?!), but it's going to be a pain to cram onto a table and have anything but just a moshpit. Maybe two tables combined?


100% this. If you want to make a game with titans, flyers, superheavies, etc., the only rational way to do so is at a smaller model scale. With recent advancements in modeling, casting, 3D printing, etc., most 40k models would still look great at 15mm or even 10mm scale. Then leave the 32mm models for TRUE skirmish gaming - a few squads and maybe 1 or two light vehicles per side.
But honestly...if your game requires movement trays, designing it for 32mm scale models is like my chunky-butt cat trying to crawl into a poster shipping tube: it's just physically never going to work, no matter how hard you try, and will likely only result in a lot of crying and disappointment.
It's true that I'm something of a scale partisan: I've always preferred smaller scales, and would love to be able too use my AT18 titans in a game of rebooted Epic. But my issue here is really just one of practicality and logic. Who has space to play a game like this? Not to mention the cost. If people end up enjoying it, that's great. But it just seems to me that if the GW team were going to go through all the effort of developing a whole new rules set, doing so at a more rational scale so people could actually play it would make more sense.

They aren't making a new game though.
Its a new way to play 40k on a larger scale, not the new epic etc.
Not go mention, rules are a lot quicker to create than models.
In addition this will hopefully let a few buddie all bring their stuff for a mass scale war, rather than all having to buy new things.
It actually IS a new game, per their announcement.

#41
Valdr Fell-fist

Valdr Fell-fist

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 181 posts
  • Faction: Valdr Fell-fists Great Company
I think I’m going blind brothers. I’ve watched the video, poured over the image...and I can’t see any movement trays?
Only the enemies of the Imperium need fear the fangs of Russ' sons! Well, ok, the enemies of the Imperium, the Adminstratum and the Dark angels and...you get the picture, right?


#42
Marshal Rohr

Marshal Rohr

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,786 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Faction: 7th Terran Regiment

They are clear plastic


  • Valdr Fell-fist likes this

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

+++The Iterators Guild+++

A Group for Lore Minded Hobbyists and World Building Projects

 


#43
wildweasel

wildweasel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,702 posts

I think I’m going blind brothers. I’ve watched the video, poured over the image...and I can’t see any movement trays?

 

They are in the video, clear plastic ones of this general design:

 

s-l300.jpg


  • Valdr Fell-fist likes this

#44
Valdr Fell-fist

Valdr Fell-fist

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 181 posts
  • Faction: Valdr Fell-fists Great Company
...not entirely sure how I missed those. That’s a little embarrassing!
  • Master Commander Ajax likes this
Only the enemies of the Imperium need fear the fangs of Russ' sons! Well, ok, the enemies of the Imperium, the Adminstratum and the Dark angels and...you get the picture, right?


#45
Marshal Rohr

Marshal Rohr

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,786 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Faction: 7th Terran Regiment

...not entirely sure how I missed those. That’s a little embarrassing!

 

I didnt see them until I saw screen stills from Atia's blog


  • Master Commander Ajax likes this

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

+++The Iterators Guild+++

A Group for Lore Minded Hobbyists and World Building Projects

 


#46
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 17,790 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, England
  • Faction: Ultramarines
This could be the big test for an epic ruleset...
  • Spleenex, Marshal Rohr and Bruce Malcom like this
I've started up a new YouTube channel! Please support me as I attempt to grow it.

Serious Geeks

#47
RipOffProductions

RipOffProductions

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 615 posts

 

One thing that concerns me is how big the box looks :/


But it's meant to be the BIG game system !

 

I assume the box will have more then just the Core Rules(likely a thick tome, seeing as how the use of more then just D6s won't let this system copy over 40K codex stats without modification) several of the movement trays for several different sizes of bases(at least 25, 32, and 40, maybe 50, and possibly something for bikes), and maybe even configurations to how the troops are positioned, and of course some of those D12s, and any other dice that might be used... and maybe even a measuring tape if they're feeling generous.

 

 

It's true that I'm something of a scale partisan: I've always preferred smaller scales, and would love to be able too use my AT18 titans in a game of rebooted Epic. But my issue here is really just one of practicality and logic. Who has space to play a game like this? Not to mention the cost. If people end up enjoying it, that's great. But it just seems to me that if the GW team were going to go through all the effort of developing a whole new rules set, doing so at a more rational scale so people could actually play it would make more sense.

 

 

While I agree that recreating Epic in the new Titanicus would be preferable from a play space perspective(and if the rules are good enough I'm sure there will be folks trying to down scale it), I think you're forgetting what the main appeal of Apocalypse is: it's not about encouraging new players to build massive armies just to play Apocalypse, it's about giving old long time 40K players something to do with their large collections that they've accrued over the years of building different lists/alternate loadouts for their army/armies that otherwise wouldn't see much use(and sure maybe give them a final push to buy that Titan they've always wanted).

 

now sure, if there's somebody who wants to blow the many thousands of pounds/dollars/euros/whatever to get a full Apocalypse Army right out the gate GW will be more than happy to take it, but that's not the core audience this is aimed at(at least I hope not, GW's pricing might be a bit predatory in some places both figurative and literal, but their not that crazy yet).


  • Honda, Spleenex and Bruce Malcom like this

#48
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 21,126 posts

 

 

 

It seems completely unnecessary and redundant as 7th and 8th were both apocalypse editions rolled into it. Plus Epic functions as a 10mm game. As a 28mm game not only is it going to be so horrendously expensive that only a very small number of people are going to be able to afford it (several hundred dollar titans?!), but it's going to be a pain to cram onto a table and have anything but just a moshpit. Maybe two tables combined?


100% this. If you want to make a game with titans, flyers, superheavies, etc., the only rational way to do so is at a smaller model scale. With recent advancements in modeling, casting, 3D printing, etc., most 40k models would still look great at 15mm or even 10mm scale. Then leave the 32mm models for TRUE skirmish gaming - a few squads and maybe 1 or two light vehicles per side.
But honestly...if your game requires movement trays, designing it for 32mm scale models is like my chunky-butt cat trying to crawl into a poster shipping tube: it's just physically never going to work, no matter how hard you try, and will likely only result in a lot of crying and disappointment.
It's true that I'm something of a scale partisan: I've always preferred smaller scales, and would love to be able too use my AT18 titans in a game of rebooted Epic. But my issue here is really just one of practicality and logic. Who has space to play a game like this? Not to mention the cost. If people end up enjoying it, that's great. But it just seems to me that if the GW team were going to go through all the effort of developing a whole new rules set, doing so at a more rational scale so people could actually play it would make more sense.

They aren't making a new game though.
Its a new way to play 40k on a larger scale, not the new epic etc.
Not go mention, rules are a lot quicker to create than models.
In addition this will hopefully let a few buddie all bring their stuff for a mass scale war, rather than all having to buy new things.
It actually IS a new game, per their announcement.

 

As in new game with a new range of  models I meant.


  • Nemesor Tyriks likes this

#49
RipOffProductions

RipOffProductions

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 615 posts

This could be the big test for an epic ruleset...

 

one can hope, though if it is I hope that in the end there's something that separates Apocalypse from Epic/Adeptus Titanicus besides the scale of the models and number of inches listed on movement and range stats.

 

I admit, I've been thinking that the Horus Heresy would work really well if it moved into Epic/Titanicus, sense that conflict was all about such massive scale battles that don't really happen anymore in the 41st Millennium; Space Marine Legions rather then Chapters, using tactics long abandoned because they no longer have the numbers and/or technology to make them work. the only issue would be the more Character focused stuff like the Primearchs and the First Captains of their Legions... though I suppose Primearchs at least are huge enough to still be noticeable at that tiny scale, and powerful enough to warrant being represented as a solo unit.


  • Bruce Malcom likes this

#50
Honda

Honda

    ++ HOSTICUS PLAUSTRUM ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 6,549 posts
  • Location:Katy, Republic of Texas
  • Faction: Black Templars
I hope that they go for alternate activation for this.

 

 

This is one of the key mechanisms in Epic Armageddon that worked so well and that I had hoped would eventually make its way into 40K. We shall see.

 

<looks over at 15K pts of Black Templars, 4K pts  of DIY SM, 5K pts of Elysians, 6K pts of Eldar>

 

Our group prefers Apoc scaled games because we are much more oriented around narrative arcs and Apoc was always perfect for supporting that effort. Our group has always been very interested in "why are you fighting?", so this new offering will be of interest to us.

 

As with the initial offering, Apocalypse was about taking your whole collection and getting it on the table. It is about creating a spectacle and telling a story. Because there are answers for most problematical units at this scale, Apocalypse has always been about what you do with what you bring, not necessarily what you bring. That is what has always appealed to me about Apoc.

 

The other thing that I think needs to be stated is that Apoc is only a framework. Like a lot of real life endeavors, Apoc returns back the effort you invest in the game.

 

For example:

 

If you just cram together all you have on the table edges, then all you've really done is produce an "extreme" dice rolling exercise.

 

Vs.

 

Start with crafting a story, shake up the deployment areas and reinforcement schedule, introduce interesting objectives.

 

I think what you'll find in the latter example is that over the course of the game you'll observe an amazing event unfold in front of you, full of heroic stands, silly circumstances, and crazy dice.

 

And memories.

 

My two yen.

 

Oh, and Plastic Thunderhawk.

 

We were all thinking it, but it needed to be said. ;)


  • Master Commander Ajax, Interrogator Stobz, DanPesci and 6 others like this
Posted Image

"All those rumors about us being intolerant and stubborn really just evolved from our history. We're actually just a fun bunch of guys who enjoy burning witches" - Anon




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users