ambit Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I've kept trying to put together a competitive <RAPTORS> list that can make using Lias worthwhile... but until now, I always felt handicapped trying to load up on the non-primaris Sternguard / Devastators to make the best use his Master of Ambush, as my preference is the big boy Primaris. Now with the vanguard units and warlord traits available, I think I might have something that will work, by ignoring Master of Ambush all together. It revolves around max units of Aggressors, Hellblasters and Veteran Intercessors in a castle that quickly moves into range. A Relic Deredeo Dreadnought is there to give them a 5+ invul, Lias gives them re-roll hits and +1 move, advance and charge. The Phobos Lieutenant gives re-roll 1 to wound, Master of the Vanguard with +1 move and +1 advance and charge rolls and his Reliquary of Gathalamor provides a measure of psychic deterrence. The ancient has the standard of the emperor ascendant and is the grey shield Field Commander (for when the intercessors can benefit from a different chapter tactic). Lastly, the apothecary is there to keep the aggressors and hellblasters topped up. So combined, they will be quite a tough nut to crack. Footslogging a mid-range castle around the battlefield would normally be a problem, but these guys will move fast... Aggressors advance 9-14". Hellblasters and Intercessors move 8" and advances 10-15". Lias moves 9" and advances 11-16". Dredero doesn't benefit from Lias, but does from Master of the Vanguard, so moves 8" and advances 10-15". So they should be mostly in range after their turn 1 move (if not in rapid fire range for the Hellblasters). The veteran Intercessors will probably use Strike from the Shadows to position themselves within 30" rapid fire range (40 S4 AP-1 shots) and in position to benefit from the castle's buffs as it moves their way on turn 1. Turn 2 onwards, we focus on getting the Intercessors and Hellblasters within 15", while the Aggressors can stand still if they are already in 18". Infiltrators are for holding objectives using their 12" no deepstrike, Death Korps in Centaurs are for clearing out scouts and other nuisance units. Elysians are for dropping onto an objective once cleared (or supporting the Infiltrators). ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [98 PL, 1668pts, 3CP] ++ **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard **Chapter Selection**: Raptors Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] Relics of the Chapter (1 Relic) [-1CP] Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Indomitus Crusaders Operative Requisition Sanctioned [85pts, -1CP] + HQ + Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts] Lieutenant in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 86pts]: 3. Master of the Vanguard, Grav-chute, Master-crafted occulus bolt rifle, Reliquary of Gathalamor, Warlord + Troops + Infiltrator Squad [11 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant Infiltrator Squad [11 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 170pts, -1CP]: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, Veteran Intercessors. 9x Intercessor. Intercessor Sergeant: Chainsword + Elites + Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Primaris Ancient [5 PL, 69pts, -1CP]: Greyshield, Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, Stratagem: Field Commander Primaris Apothecary [4 PL, 68pts] Relic Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 223pts]: Atomantic pavaise, Hellfire plasma carronade, Twin heavy flamer + Heavy Support + Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 330pts]: Plasma incinerator. 9x Hellblaster. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [20 PL, 332pts, 5CP] ++ Detachment CP [5CP] Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum Regimental Doctrine: Death Korps of Krieg Regimental Doctrine: Elysian + HQ + Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword + Troops + Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 67pts]. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer. Grenadier Watch Master: Boltgun, Chainsword. Grenadier Weapons Team: Heavy flamer Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 67pts]. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer. Grenadier Watch Master: Boltgun, Chainsword. Grenadier Weapons Team: Heavy flamer Elysian Drop Trooper Squad [4 PL, 50pts]: 9x Guardsman w/Lasgun, Frag & Krak Grenades. Sergeant: Krak grenades, Lasgun + Dedicated Transport + Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 50pts]: 2x Heavy stubber Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 50pts]: 2x Heavy stubber ++ Total: [118 PL, 2000pts, 8CP] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Its a cute/niche list! I mentioned the interactions of Lias/Master of the Vanguard to MajorNesse when the spoilers dropped. I had been tossing around a few iterations of the build in my head, but I came to a few glaring problems: 1) You need to keep the "blob" together. While this will work okay on turns 1-3, when you get into the later stages of the game, you will need to split up/spread out to get on key objectives to take the lead in points. When you do this, units will become isolated and die. Marines simply cost too many points and lack durability without their corresponding buffs. 2) Certain lists hard counter this list (For example: Tau, Heavy Burst Cannons and High Yield Missle Pods are spammable, en masse, and they slay primaris in droves, very efficiently). That coupled with you will be marching into double tap of their castle, I think you will find yourself outnumbered and outgunned. 3) Inherently, our Chapter Tactic wants us to keep the enemy at arms length. This is somewhat counter intuitive to all the movement, and the desire for the "castle" to move to the midfield. If the enemy can easily move one turn and get within the 12" halo to negate our -1, the movement feels like a penalty. Just some thoughts. I think if I had the models to play this list, I would still play it, as that level of of movement would be like playing Marines that move like Nids/Dark Eldar (to a degree). I bet you would score a good chunk of wins just by simply taking enemies unawares. edit: I noticed your posts on r/CompetitiveWarhammer. I shall be keeping an eye out for you there as well for more wild and crazy ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 SM's and DKoK I like it :tu: I demand pics and batreps! :D :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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