Lias Issodon + devastator MW

[IronDreddKnight]

 

Now this probably isn’t anything new to you guys, but I’ve recently started playing raptors and I’ve come up with a nice combo.

 

I take Lias Issodon and using his master of ambush ability, I take 2 devastator squads with him. Both have Sargent with signum, both have a cherub, while 1 unit takes a heavy bolter, the other takes a missile launcher.

 

The plan here is to use the signum and cherub together combined with flakk missiles and hellfire shells in order to achieve 4D3 mortal wounds. (The target will of course need to “fly” for the flakk missiles to be legal) Issodon is here to allow full re rolls, signum brings BS back to 3+ because of moving heavy weapons and the cherub allows us to do this twice.

 

I’m hoping I’ve not made any rule mistakes here. Has any one else tried this tactic? Or is there something better that I’m missing?

[MajorNese]

It works, and it's effective. Use Storm of Fire WL trait, add sternguard (+Masterful Marksmanship strat) and maybe grav cannons, and you got the classic Issobomb. It's not the hottest combo out there anymore since deep strike was delayed to turn 2, but if you can afford to keep that many points off the field for a round or two, it still works.

[IronDreddKnight]

It works, and it's effective. Use Storm of Fire WL trait, add sternguard (+Masterful Marksmanship strat) and maybe grav cannons, and you got the classic Issobomb. It's not the hottest combo out there anymore since deep strike was delayed to turn 2, but if you can afford to keep that many points off the field for a round or two, it still works.

I didn’t realise Lias didn’t have a fixed warlord trait. Storm of fire and sternguard is a very good catch there, thank you

[MajorNese]

 

It works, and it's effective. Use Storm of Fire WL trait, add sternguard (+Masterful Marksmanship strat) and maybe grav cannons, and you got the classic Issobomb. It's not the hottest combo out there anymore since deep strike was delayed to turn 2, but if you can afford to keep that many points off the field for a round or two, it still works.

I didn’t realise Lias didn’t have a fixed warlord trait. Storm of fire and sternguard is a very good catch there, thank you

SoF and the sternguard strat are a fun combo too - improving the to-wound means triggering SoF on a 5+ already. With how the to-wound chart shifts, this makes the sternguard bolters (math wise) almost exactly work like non-overcharged plasma. Just waaaaaaay less expensive, with 15" rapid fire range (or 30" with Beta Bolter rule) and every guy in the squad gets one. Once, I've finished off a Warhound with this...

[IronDreddKnight]

Sternguard sound like the next addition to my old marines raptors list.

[MajorNese]

Good choice - these guys are really useful, even without the Issobomb. I've built mine from the Deathwatch sprue - you get 10 guys (with full pouches and gear) rather cheap with the Start Collecting DW, if you can use/sell the VenDread. At least cheaper than the sternguard boxes...

[IronDreddKnight]

I’ve already got a large death Watch army, I wouldn’t want the models to clash. I was thinking about using some of the mark iii or mark iv squads.

 

I’ll most likely go bits hunting on eBay and build something unique.

[IronDreddKnight]

Good choice - these guys are really useful, even without the Issobomb. I've built mine from the Deathwatch sprue - you get 10 guys (with full pouches and gear) rather cheap with the Start Collecting DW, if you can use/sell the VenDread. At least cheaper than the sternguard boxes...

My bits hunting was a success. I’ve got all the parts I need for 10 sternguard for £29.23 all in. Saved myself £30.77 at least

[MajorNese]

The plan here is to use the signum and cherub together combined with flakk missiles and hellfire shells in order to achieve 4D3 mortal wounds. (The target will of course need to “fly” for the flakk missiles to be legal) Issodon is here to allow full re rolls, signum brings BS back to 3+ because of moving heavy weapons and the cherub allows us to do this twice.

 

I’m hoping I’ve not made any rule mistakes here. Has any one else tried this tactic? Or is there something better that I’m missing?

One thing though that many don't realize - first rerolls, then modifiers.

 

Issodon allows to reroll any failed to-hit rolls, but that's before modifiers are applied. So you can only ever reroll 1s and 2s, as BS before modifiers is a 3+. After rerolls, it gets modified by moving a heavy weapon, signum, other potential to-hit penalties etc., but after that you can't retrospectively reroll something that would have been a hit before modifiers. Only "exception" is a degrading profile or other rules that modify the BS instead of the to-hit roll, as for BS 4+ a 3 is a regular fail too, unlike a BS 3+ with -1 to hit.

 

This becomes relevant when the devs include for example additional grav cannons (no signum, -1 for moving heavy weapon) or when any other -1 to hit applies (shooting at stealth suits etc.), so you can't reroll certain results even if they are failed after all modifiers.

[ambit]

Just adding to this, if you ally in a Guard detachment and include an Officer of the Fleet with The Dagger of Tu'Sakh you can 'RAW' outflank a unit of 6 Centurion Devastators next to Lias.

[jpwyrm]

That is quite interesting actually. Will have to ponder on this. Thank you Ambit for this nice trick!

[MajorNese]

Just adding to this, if you ally in a Guard detachment and include an Officer of the Fleet with The Dagger of Tu'Sakh you can 'RAW' outflank a unit of 6 Centurion Devastators next to Lias.

Not possible:

 

The infantry unit must have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as the bearer.

Centurions have <CHAPTER>, or in the case of Issodon's buddies, RAPTORS. Similar strats have all been restricted to the subfaction it originates from, to prevent the sort of deathstar ally shenanigans from last edition.

[ambit]

Actually it depends on if the TO wants to make up a house rule to exclude you from using the Dagger on non-AM units. I posted the explanation earlier today after discussing it on Reddit

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355252-the-dagger-of-tusakh-officer-of-the-fleet/

 

If you include the Centurions in a <RAPTORS> detachment so they can benefit from Lias' aura when in range. You then just need a seperate AM detachment with an Officer of the Fleet and the Relic dagger.

 

RAI obviously would exclude using it on non-AM units, but RAW you certainly can.

[MajorNese]

Yeah...to be honest, on cutthroat tournaments it's already borderline and everyone might try stuff like that, so who cares.
 

But in a regular environment it's just gamey as hell, as it's just not intended in any way, and reminds me of the guys naming their IG regiments after SM chapters to receive their keywords/buffs/strats. If you insist on using such tiny rules loopholes for playing a random game at the store or with a friend, it doesn't really bode well for the rest...

[ambit]

Yeah...to be honest, on cutthroat tournaments it's already borderline and everyone might try stuff like that, so who cares.

 

But in a regular environment it's just gamey as hell, as it's just not intended in any way, and reminds me of the guys naming their IG regiments after SM chapters to receive their keywords/buffs/strats. If you insist on using such tiny rules loopholes for playing a random game at the store or with a friend, it doesn't really bode well for the rest...

 

For sure, it's clearly not intended that way and I wouldn't be impressed if someone tried to use it that way against me either. I guess it depends on who you play against regularly, cut throat tournament types that want to get every edge they can, or more casual players that play for fun - interpreting RAI more often than not.

[Dracos]

There are no Regiment keywords for Astartes nor are there Chapter keywords for Militarium. Face punching any fool trying to pull crap like that.

[dbecer01]

So, where are the rules and the model available for Lias Issodon?

[MajorNese]

There is no official model (as with much of the Badab stuff), the one that comes very close to loadout and description would be the FW Vigilator. Rules are in Index Adeptus Astartes, though you can find the rules quickly via google.

[dbecer01]

pretty cool ...