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Primaris Battle Company Structure

space marine adeptus astartes battle company

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#1
BrotherEndcat

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Just curious as to how most people are perceiving primaris battle company structure. I am a psychopath who likes collecting a company as close to lore as possible for some crazy reason. Are reivers in vanguard detachments in the 10th company now or still part of battle companies as part of close support units alongside inceptors?

 

If they are vanguard (and therefore part of 10th company) then companies look like this;

 

  • Command Personnel
  • Intercessor Squads x6
  • Inceptor Squads x2
  • Hellblaster Squad x1
  • Aggressor Squad x1
  • Redemptor Dreadnoughts x 1-3

 

OOOOOORRRRRRRR.... am I just too inflexible with this and the squads vary from company to company and thats the point in them being vague with "fire support squads" and "close support squads" so you can collect how you want?


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#2
sfPanzer

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Companies don't have fix units listed. Companies have roles listed.
 
So instead of: 

Intercessor Squads x6
Inceptor Squads x2
Hellblaster Squad x1
Aggressor Squad x1

 
it would rather be:

Battleline Squad x6
Close Support Squad x2
Ranged Support Squad x2

And those squads get further split into specific units which can change from deployment to deployment.

 

Also Vanguard aren't JUST 10th company. Every squad in a battlecompany can get deployed in the vanguard role. It's just that the 10th company has a standing force of Vanguard.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#3
BrotherEndcat

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Companies don't have fix units listed. Companies have roles listed.
 
So instead of: 

Intercessor Squads x6
Inceptor Squads x2
Hellblaster Squad x1
Aggressor Squad x1

 
it would rather be:

Battleline Squad x6
Close Support Squad x2
Ranged Support Squad x2

And those squads get further split into specific units which can change from deployment to deployment.

 

Also Vanguard aren't JUST 10th company. Every squad in a battlecompany can get deployed in the vanguard role. It's just that the 10th company has a standing force of Vanguard.

 

Aaaah right. I don't actually own the codex's at the moment because I'm still contemplating what route I'll go marine wise but just wanted to get that answered. 

 

So primaris are a bit more fluid in what role theyre deployed in compared to classic depending on the situation?


"I murdered thousands for the Emperor and he gave me nothing except his damning silence. Now his lapdogs yap for every life I take, while the gods promise me the galaxy..."


#4
Lord Raven 19

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Rievers take the place of inceptors.

Thinking about it; a full squad of inceptors, aggressors, eliminators, ect should be 10 man. Maybe run in units of 5 (combat squads)


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#5
sfPanzer

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So primaris are a bit more fluid in what role theyre deployed in compared to classic depending on the situation?

 

 

No, it's like that for all Marines (except for the Vanguard part). We actually don't know whether a full Primaris chapter is differently structured compared to a mixed chapter (but probably not).


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#6
Red_Shift

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I've been thinking 60 intercessors, 20 assault and 20 heavy - currently that's inceptors, hellblasters and aggressors but I'm fairly sure we will get other options to fill that out. I like to think of vanguard as a separate structure but that's partly so I can justify having a grand battle company with a hundred guys, officers plus vanguard and elite attachments.

#7
Tamiel

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Guilliman made a few changes to the Codex Astartes when he came back. One of these was that (non-scout) brothers from companies 6 to 10 can temporarily be placed into one of the main battle companies (for example, 2nd) to bolster their numbers above 100. So, in 2nd company, you can have a bunch of Hellblasters and devastators added in from 9th company, and a bunch of Vanguard marines added in from 10th company, etc. When these brothers temporarily join a battle company, they take on the shoulder trim of that same company (in the case of Ultramarines 2nd company, it's gold trim). So you could theoretically have 500 space marines all wearing 2nd company trim and being in that company for an entire campaign. And like others have said, Primaris marines have training in other roles, so your intercessors might swap out their gear to become infiltrators. Mark 10 armour is very modular, so it can be fitted with Gravis or Phobos parts prior to battle.

 

Long story short, battle companies are no longer set in stone. They're constantly in flux, taking on additional brothers or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I think GW did this so that people can make collections of space marines that have more than 100 marines, but all wearing the same shoulder trim. You could also have more than 6 battle-line squads (for example, you could have 7 ten-man intercessor squads in a company), and it will still be fitting of the new company structures that Guilliman added to the codex.


Edited by Tamiel, 07 April 2019 - 05:24 AM.

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#8
sfPanzer

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or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I 

 

That is nothing new though.

A Biker Marine with Plasma isn't a Biker Marine with Plasma forever. He's a Close Support Marine first and a Biker Marine second. If a deployment requires a different weapon, he takes a different weapon and if a deployment requires Jump Packs instead of Bikes the company forms some of their Close Support squads into an Assault Squad instead of a Bike Squad.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#9
Claws and Effect

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or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I


That is nothing new though.
A Biker Marine with Plasma isn't a Biker Marine with Plasma forever. He's a Close Support Marine first and a Biker Marine second. If a deployment requires a different weapon, he takes a different weapon and if a deployment requires Jump Packs instead of Bikes the company forms some of their Close Support squads into an Assault Squad instead of a Bike Squad.

This is a good point.

A Reiver isn't necessarily a Reiver all the time. He wears Phobos armor, so depending on the mission he could suit up as a Reiver, an Infiltrator, or an Eliminator.

And that particular guy is probably also trained as a Hellblaster and Intercessor.

I'm planning on doing several different Captain models for my Raven Guard and simply explain it as they are all the same guy who just equips himself differently depending on the mission parameters. I assume that a Captain can handle all but the most specialized equipment that his Chapter possesses.
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#10
mel_danes

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I would presume given a Cpt. stats he is an expert at every aspect of war. His battlefield duty requires he be available thus preventing him from some of the more specialized styles of deployment, say vehicle operation.
I was quite pleased they released a "scout" class Cpt. It represents the opposite end of the spectrum defined on the heavy end by Terminators and Gravis Cpt.
Like you Claws and Effect I have many Cpt. figures, with the exact same reasoning. Different deployments called for different armament.
More so now with Primaris.

Edited by mel_danes, 07 April 2019 - 04:24 PM.


#11
sfPanzer

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or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I


That is nothing new though.
A Biker Marine with Plasma isn't a Biker Marine with Plasma forever. He's a Close Support Marine first and a Biker Marine second. If a deployment requires a different weapon, he takes a different weapon and if a deployment requires Jump Packs instead of Bikes the company forms some of their Close Support squads into an Assault Squad instead of a Bike Squad.

This is a good point.

A Reiver isn't necessarily a Reiver all the time. He wears Phobos armor, so depending on the mission he could suit up as a Reiver, an Infiltrator, or an Eliminator.

And that particular guy is probably also trained as a Hellblaster and Intercessor.

I'm planning on doing several different Captain models for my Raven Guard and simply explain it as they are all the same guy who just equips himself differently depending on the mission parameters. I assume that a Captain can handle all but the most specialized equipment that his Chapter possesses.

 

 

Nah you got that backwards.

A Reiver is a Close Support Marine. So depending on the mission he's wearing Phobos armour and acts as Reiver or Gravis armour with Jump Pack and acts as Inceptor. His battlefield role is Close Support and that doesn't change (unless he gets promoted etc).


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpg


#12
Claws and Effect

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or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I

That is nothing new though.
A Biker Marine with Plasma isn't a Biker Marine with Plasma forever. He's a Close Support Marine first and a Biker Marine second. If a deployment requires a different weapon, he takes a different weapon and if a deployment requires Jump Packs instead of Bikes the company forms some of their Close Support squads into an Assault Squad instead of a Bike Squad.
This is a good point.

A Reiver isn't necessarily a Reiver all the time. He wears Phobos armor, so depending on the mission he could suit up as a Reiver, an Infiltrator, or an Eliminator.

And that particular guy is probably also trained as a Hellblaster and Intercessor.

I'm planning on doing several different Captain models for my Raven Guard and simply explain it as they are all the same guy who just equips himself differently depending on the mission parameters. I assume that a Captain can handle all but the most specialized equipment that his Chapter possesses.

Nah you got that backwards.
A Reiver is a Close Support Marine. So depending on the mission he's wearing Phobos armour and acts as Reiver or Gravis armour with Jump Pack and acts as Inceptor. His battlefield role is Close Support and that doesn't change (unless he gets promoted etc).

I'm going to have to disagree there. Reivers have more in common with Infiltrators than anything else.

Swap out shock grenades for smoke grenades, stick a scope on the bolt carbine, and trade the grav chute for the jammer and he's an Infiltrator.

#13
sfPanzer

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or changing the load-outs of their existing squads to fit a campaign's needs. I

That is nothing new though.
A Biker Marine with Plasma isn't a Biker Marine with Plasma forever. He's a Close Support Marine first and a Biker Marine second. If a deployment requires a different weapon, he takes a different weapon and if a deployment requires Jump Packs instead of Bikes the company forms some of their Close Support squads into an Assault Squad instead of a Bike Squad.
This is a good point.

A Reiver isn't necessarily a Reiver all the time. He wears Phobos armor, so depending on the mission he could suit up as a Reiver, an Infiltrator, or an Eliminator.

And that particular guy is probably also trained as a Hellblaster and Intercessor.

I'm planning on doing several different Captain models for my Raven Guard and simply explain it as they are all the same guy who just equips himself differently depending on the mission parameters. I assume that a Captain can handle all but the most specialized equipment that his Chapter possesses.

Nah you got that backwards.
A Reiver is a Close Support Marine. So depending on the mission he's wearing Phobos armour and acts as Reiver or Gravis armour with Jump Pack and acts as Inceptor. His battlefield role is Close Support and that doesn't change (unless he gets promoted etc).

I'm going to have to disagree there. Reivers have more in common with Infiltrators than anything else.

Swap out shock grenades for smoke grenades, stick a scope on the bolt carbine, and trade the grav chute for the jammer and he's an Infiltrator.

 

 

Uhm that's nothing to agree or disagree about. That's how the company structure works per fluff.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#14
Lord_Caerolion

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Gotta agree with sfPanzer here. It doesn't matter that a Reiver is in Phobos armour, if they're designated as a Close Support squad, then they'll work as one of the various Close Support squads.


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#15
War Angel

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Gotta agree with sfPanzer here. It doesn't matter that a Reiver is in Phobos armour, if they're designated as a Close Support squad, then they'll work as one of the various Close Support squads.


This is 100% what the fluff says. In case anyone needs a visual...

Intercessors can suit up as infiltrators
Hellblasters can armor up to aggressors, or down to exterminators
And I’m assuming suppesors can suit up to inceptors or down to reivers.

Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.
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#16
mel_danes

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The Primaris range takes us back to pre-Wardian chapter structure. A marine is trained and skilled in all measure of combat roles.
They are assigned to companies that best suit their skills, but I believe any of them could fulfill any battlefield role.
Terminator/Veteran or Scout status not withstanding, as they are promotional states.
The Primaris battle roles are closely matched to a modular suit of armor, not the occupant. At least that's my take. The core armor without add on's is probably unique to that marine, but the upgrade parts are mission/role specific.

Edited by mel_danes, 08 April 2019 - 02:47 AM.


#17
sfPanzer

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Gotta agree with sfPanzer here. It doesn't matter that a Reiver is in Phobos armour, if they're designated as a Close Support squad, then they'll work as one of the various Close Support squads.


This is 100% what the fluff says. In case anyone needs a visual...

Intercessors can suit up as infiltrators
Hellblasters can armor up to aggressors, or down to exterminators
And I’m assuming suppesors can suit up to inceptors or down to reivers.

Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.

 

 

Suppressors are Ranged Support as well so would be Hellblaster, Aggressors or Eliminators. Other than that you're right. ;)


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#18
Lord_Caerolion

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The Primaris range takes us back to pre-Wardian chapter structure. A marine is trained and skilled in all measure of combat roles.
They are assigned to companies that best suit their skills, but I believe any of them could fulfill any battlefield role.
Terminator/Veteran or Scout status not withstanding, as they are promotional states.
The Primaris battle roles are closely matched to a modular suit of armor, not the occupant. At least that's my take. The core armor without add on's is probably unique to that marine, but the upgrade parts are mission/role specific.

 

Even post-Ward that's still the case. A Tactical Marine can, if the situation absolutely calls for it, be suited up as an Assault Marine. However, when it comes to Company structure, a Marine will be assigned a battlefield role. It's still the case that an Assault Squad can, if the circumstances require, be mounted on bikes, or on Land Speeders. A Devastator squad can, if the situation is warranted, break out the Centurion suits, and go into battle as a Centurion Devastator squad.


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#19
Reinhard

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Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.

 

 

Well they ARE elites. They aren't veterans however.


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#20
Claws and Effect

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Gotta agree with sfPanzer here. It doesn't matter that a Reiver is in Phobos armour, if they're designated as a Close Support squad, then they'll work as one of the various Close Support squads.

This is 100% what the fluff says. In case anyone needs a visual...

Intercessors can suit up as infiltrators
Hellblasters can armor up to aggressors, or down to exterminators
And I’m assuming suppesors can suit up to inceptors or down to reivers.

Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.
It doesn't make ANY sense, because it requires each Primaris Marine to have 3 different suits of armor available to them at all times. It would make more sense for them to alter their battlefield role by taking different equipment, rather than changing their entire suit of armor. It would be far more efficient that way, and we know how Guilliman likes efficiency.

Edited by Claws and Effect, 08 April 2019 - 11:48 AM.


#21
sfPanzer

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Gotta agree with sfPanzer here. It doesn't matter that a Reiver is in Phobos armour, if they're designated as a Close Support squad, then they'll work as one of the various Close Support squads.

This is 100% what the fluff says. In case anyone needs a visual...

Intercessors can suit up as infiltrators
Hellblasters can armor up to aggressors, or down to exterminators
And I’m assuming suppesors can suit up to inceptors or down to reivers.

Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.
It doesn't make ANY sense, because it requires each Primaris Marine to have 3 different suits of armor available to them at all times. It would make more sense for them to alter their battlefield role by taking different equipment, rather than changing their entire suit of armor. It would be far more efficient that way, and we know how Guilliman likes efficiency.

 

 

Well yeah a Marines armour and gear are his personal equipment for his own armory. It's not like all the Power Armour are stashed in a common armoury and get handed out randomly to the squads when it's time to deploy. Otherwise honours and other modifications (Blood Angels love to bling up their armour for example) wouldn't work. If I recall correctly Jes Goodwin even mentioned that a Primaris has multiple sets of armour in his personal armoury and equips the one required for the mission.

It makes a LOT of sense considering how longliving Marines are, how few Marines actually exist and directly plays into the "each and every Marine is a hero of the imperium" theme. They aren't just common soldiers.


Edited by sfPanzer, 08 April 2019 - 12:09 PM.

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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#22
War Angel

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Does it make perfect sense? No, but that’s what GW said. Personally I see reivers as an elite option much like vanguard and sternguard.

 
Well they ARE elites. They aren't veterans however.

That’s the word I was looking for lol.
I thought suppressors would be CC as they are under fast attack. Thank god you broke the enslavment on my mind.
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#23
BluejayJunior

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Jes Goodwin talked about how the three different armors were designed to look as if they're all layered on top of one another. So all Primaris are pretty much wearing the basic skeleton of the Phobos armor, but then layer extra plating over it depending on what role they are fulfilling. So Intercessors/Hellblasters in the Tacticus (I think that's what it's called) armor just have extra plates over Reivers, while Aggressors/Inceptors have even more armor plating. 

It's not 3 different suits of armor for the different roles. It's one suit that can be modified with additional armor plating depending on their deployment. 


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#24
Claws and Effect

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Jes Goodwin talked about how the three different armors were designed to look as if they're all layered on top of one another. So all Primaris are pretty much wearing the basic skeleton of the Phobos armor, but then layer extra plating over it depending on what role they are fulfilling. So Intercessors/Hellblasters in the Tacticus (I think that's what it's called) armor just have extra plates over Reivers, while Aggressors/Inceptors have even more armor plating.
It's not 3 different suits of armor for the different roles. It's one suit that can be modified with additional armor plating depending on their deployment.


That makes a little more sense.

#25
Boldthreat

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Now correct me if I’m wrong... but didn’t Jes Goodwin kind of say that whilst the different types of Mark 10 are based off each other, it’s not necessarily the case that it’s the same suit with different plates and kit added on? That’s what I took away from his latest interview but I very well could be off. So I don’t necessarily believe that each marine has three separate suits of armor. I’ll buy that officers do. The Captain of the second company of the Ultramarines definitely does lol.

I miss the rigid structure of the traditional space marines if I’m honest. Whilst we don’t have much information on how a Primaris chapter organizes (hell we don’t even have the full picture yet of what they have or don’t), I think it’s safe to read that they are very ad hoc in how they operate. Which is not a bad thing and makes sense with elite super soldier commandos. But I think keeping to the 60, 20, 20 is a safe bet regardless of how you mix and match it. I would ideally keep them in 5 man teams further organized into 25 man units based on a particular role. So a Phobos element would be 3 5 man infiltrator squads, 1 reaver squad and 1 eliminator squad. That seems like a complete package and hopefully one day we can do the same with Gravis and Tacticus variants. But all that is baseless conjecture on my part.

And there is potentially more suits we don’t know about. Aren’t Suppressors in a new variation? So that is potentially another line of units. I’m still not giving up on Terminator plate either lol. I’d kill for a complete picture.
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