Dreadnought valid?

[domsto]

So i am toying around with an idea of using some Dreadnoughts. To be clear i am not talking about the redemptor or any other special Form, i am talking about the good old one.

I was thinking to use them as a weaponplattform with a missile launcher and a plasmacannon to stand back and give fire support.

Or to use them with a Assaultcannon und CC weapon to lead the charge.

They seem OK statwise but nobody seems to use them. Is there anything i overlook or have someone made some experiences with them?

[Morticon]

The issue is that theyre easily targeted, easily killed and lack anything that cant be brought elsewhere for better or cheaper. 

 

DA have a nice buff for the reroll 1s when standing still, but, you still have a single T7, W8 model with only a 3+ save.  (Nice model to benefit from Azraels 4++ to be fair). 

 

Long range weapons like missiles and las make short work of these guys. En masse you may see a little success, to dilute the heavy weapon fire coming in, but otherwise, you're begging to have them killed. 
 

If you were to say play 3 mortis dreads (with double plas) and then, 3 regular dreads, marching up the lines - then you may be on to something.  It's a sizeable points investment at 2k, but you're getting 48, T7 wounds for around 800 or so points. 

[Closet Skeleton]

The issue is that theyre easily targeted, easily killed and lack anything that cant be brought elsewhere for better or cheaper.

 

I take issue with the last one, dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most efficient marine chassis for 4A S12 D3 3+ to hit melee profile.

 

Missile launcher lascannon isn't bad either.

 

A devastator squad with that load out is 135 while a dreadnought is 120. The devastators can use the flakk missile stratagem and buy a cherub and an extra heavy weapon which is great but the dread could for the less than the price of the third lascannon become venerable and get to hit on 2s.

 

Just throwing a lone dread into an infantry army is asking for it to die but three dreadnoughts is a cheap and efficient way to support other vehicles.

 

I think Azrael's Lion Helm is infantry only now.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Like Morticon pointed, you need to bring a lot of high toughness to ensure the dread don't get focused by high strength weapons. So it's usually an all or nothing were you have a lot of high T models to soak up anti tank fire.

Leading the charge looks nice on paper but dreads aren't fast or durable to lead a charge, your best bet are medium-long range weapons and use them as mobile fire support.

[Hantheman]

I think you either run 3 dreadnoughts or none

[JJD]

I had fun with my dread hanging out with Az the Lt and a 10 man hellblaster squad but I wouldn’t call it competitive.

[Progenitor]

My Ven Dread with M/Launcher and Lascannon has been one of the stars of my Dark Angels. One game I had him pop a Carnifex a turn on his own, but my opponent was running loads of them in a particular list he was trying. I've also lost him in one turn to a pimped out strategem fed Chaos Dreadnought who could draw line of sight through a small window in a building. Overall he's been worthwhile to me but if you've not got a static firebase for him to be a part of I question his value more. 

[Angel of Solitude]

Ven dread is definitely the way to go. I take a dual twin-autocannon version, supported by an intercessor squad and a lt. BS 2+, so re-rolling 1's, 6+++ slightly makes up for the lack of invuln, and 8 S7 AP-1 D2 shots is quite a potent unit.

 

Plus, if you need to move, then Wisdom of the Ancients gives re-roll benefits within 6",

[Berzul]

I used to play 2 ven dreads with quad autocannons. Back when we could use them. Now I run them with lascannons and fists.

 

Always bring 2+

Always go Ven for the 6+ FnP and 2+ BS

Sometimes bring a Techmarine to keep em up

[Angel of Solitude]

Berzul - you still can. Ven dreads per the Index can take 2 x Twin autocannons.

[zacret]

my current backbone for lists when playing "competative" at 1250-1500 have 2 ven dreads with twin las / autocannon and a repulsor with twin las / heavy onslaught / onslaugh. I have fairly good success with this at my local club.

[Berzul]

Berzul - you still can. Ven dreads per the Index can take 2 x Twin autocannons.

 

I thought that Index options were no longer available to us. Wasn't there a FAQ or something that stated that codex armies cannot use index options?

 

 

 

In any case, I constantly run two ven dreads with twin lascannons, power fists and storm bolters. I usually pair them with a techmarine and/or a lieutenant, and have them either serve as a firing platform to support my devastators, or as a threat unit to force my enemy to focus on them. With their 8 wounds, 6+ FnP, and a D3 wounds a turn being healed, they can be surprisingly sturdy. Their BS2+ doesn't hurt either. And, when the enemy gets close, their 4 attacks at S16 HURT a lot. I have managed to kill some very tough opponents in CC with just my ven dreads.

 

I have plans on building a third one I have in its sprues, to start playing a 3-ven dread formation for 1500+ lists.

[oldmanlee]

I'm a big fan of dreadnoughts

My all dreadnought blood Angels army was the most fun I had playing 40k back in 5 I think

[sneakybamsen]

Hurray for dreadnoughts!

 

I am going to run the below in a 2k casual event at some point:

 

Phobos lt

lieutenant

master

5 infiltrators

10 intercessors

5 scouts

dread with multimelta, fist, stormbolter

dread with missile launcher, twin lascannon

dread with assault cannon, fist, stormbolter

Redemptor with heavy onslaught gatling cannon, onslaught gatling cannon, fist, 2x storm bolter

Ven dread with missile launcher, twin lascannon

Eliminator squad

deredeo with anvilus autocannon battery, twin heavybolter, atomantic pavaise

contemptor mortis with 2x kheres assault cannon, cyclone missile launcher

leviathan with 2x storm cannons and 2x heavy flamer

 

That is about 90% of my dreadnoughts in a list. I wish I had more venerables, as they are no doubt worth it, but I do not.

 

With regards to autocannons, in a lot of places the consensus is that index options are not allowed if you have a codex. So unless you want to be rocking a mortis dread (FW), twin autocannons are kind of gone for most of us.

[Angel of Solitude]

I've always taken my cue from the flow chart in the designer's commentary:

 

1) Does your model have a datasheet in a codex? - Yes

2) Are there wargear options for your model that only appear in the index version of its datasheet? - Yes

= Use the codex version of your model's datasheet, but you can chose to use the index version for its wargear options.

 

As far as I know, I don't believe that this flowchart has been subsequently changed by FAQs etc.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I have had good fun and some success with TLLC Mortis Dreads. The rerolls helps with the 3+BS.

[domsto]

I was planning on using ravenwing black knights to take some preasure from the dreads.

[Berzul]

I think its the other way around. The Dreads serve tot ake the preasure off of other units.

 

Just two dreads will draw a ton of fire, leaving your knights better served to ride up the board.

Put three together, and make them venerable, and see your opponent fire everything they can at them!

 

Personally, I think a 3 ven dread team with Assault Cannons, Fists and Storm Bolters, just walking down the center of the board, threatening a charge, could be a good area denial formation of models. Something to keep the enemy at bay for a good couple of turns. 18 S6 shots and 12 S4 shots a turn, is not that awesome, but still decent to take out infantry and keep your enemy from throwing too big a tarpit at the squad of vehicles. And, once in combat? These guys will pummel anything to bits!

[PhilB]

I sometimes run a list with 3x Ven Dreads with twin-las & twin-autocannon huddled around a Deredeo with an atomantic pavaise.

Hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s with a 5++ and 6+ FnP. They definitely do work, but I understand the desire for other armour on the board; forcing your opponent to make target priority choices.

Add a Lieutenant, Techmarine & Dark Shroud for extra millage. They need good screening though as they're very susceptible to assault all bunched up like this.

I usually layer front to back Aggressors, Intercessors, Hellblasters + characters, then Dreadnoughts, not the most mobile of lists, but they pack a punch.

[Morticon]

 

The issue is that theyre easily targeted, easily killed and lack anything that cant be brought elsewhere for better or cheaper.

 

I take issue with the last one, dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most efficient marine chassis for 4A S12 D3 3+ to hit melee profile.

 

Missile launcher lascannon isn't bad either.

 

A devastator squad with that load out is 135 while a dreadnought is 120. The devastators can use the flakk missile stratagem and buy a cherub and an extra heavy weapon which is great but the dread could for the less than the price of the third lascannon become venerable and get to hit on 2s.

 

Just throwing a lone dread into an infantry army is asking for it to die but three dreadnoughts is a cheap and efficient way to support other vehicles.

 

I think Azrael's Lion Helm is infantry only now.

 

 

Good point on the Helm! Hadnt realised. 

 

As for the attacking melee profile- i totally agree.  It's why I'm building a cheap bashy dread list for my BA.  But, I was addressing the OP's idea about fire support. 

 

120 is actually super cheap, but i still feel its a fragile platform.  Maybe en masse and with buffs?

 

I sometimes run a list with 3x Ven Dreads with twin-las & twin-autocannon huddled around a Deredeo with an atomantic pavaise.

Hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s with a 5++ and 6+ FnP. They definitely do work, but I understand the desire for other armour on the board; forcing your opponent to make target priority choices.

Add a Lieutenant, Techmarine & Dark Shroud for extra millage. They need good screening though as they're very susceptible to assault all bunched up like this.

I usually layer front to back Aggressors, Intercessors, Hellblasters + characters, then Dreadnoughts, not the most mobile of lists, but they pack a punch.

 

Why dark shroud? 

[sneakybamsen]

Darkshroud to make them harder to kill. -1 to hit on DA models within 6" of the 'shroud.