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Taking control of an enemy model


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10 replies to this topic

#1
Wassa

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So there are a few abilities that allow you to take control of an enemy model (whether to move, shoot, fight).

 

For that turn, what does that model benefit from in terms of:

 

  • Original players chapter tactics / doctrines / detachment benefits
  • Controlling players chapter tactics / doctrines / detachment benefits
  • Original players auras
  • Controlling players auras

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#2
sfPanzer

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That's actually a very good question. Something I'd like to see officially answered in a FAQ.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#3
BrotherEndcat

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Among my own friend group we usually play it that the model that has been taken control of benefits from everything apart from friendly player auras and psychic powers. Doesn't make sense to me that a model that is under mind control (or similar) benefits from his commander yelling shooting advice at him while shooting said commander in the face teehee.gif

 

An FAQ on this would absolutely be helpful though.


"I murdered thousands for the Emperor and he gave me nothing except his damning silence. Now his lapdogs yap for every life I take, while the gods promise me the galaxy..."


#4
BluejayJunior

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Huh, hadn't thought of that before. I would also like to see an official FAQ about it.

 

But here are my thoughts on it.

The controlled unit isn't gaining the Controller's [KEYWORD] so it shouldn't be affected by any of the Controllers auras or "Chapter Tactics".

The controlled unit is no longer friendly to the original player, so it wouldn't be affected by their friendly auras.

I would assume that they still benefit from their own "Chapter Tactic" because nothing says they don't. They aren't being removed from the Original's army, just temporarily working against them. Same would go for psychic powers. Any persistent effects would remain. 


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#5
Slasher956

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Are they still counted as friendly models when controlled by the opponent?

 

If not then they dont get any of their faction rules /buffs as they  state friendly [keyword]*

 

They also dont gain any keywords when they become controlled by you so wouldnt gain any of the faction buffs.

 

That just leaves any powers/gifts /prayers etc  that are put on to the models unit... err.... not sure, I'm tempted to say yes they would stay.

 

 

 

edit * oh ...<expletive deleted> I thought they did, just looked at a couple and it appears they dont....

 

erm... yeah.... FAQ!


Edited by Slasher956, 10 April 2019 - 12:12 PM.

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#6
sfPanzer

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Huh, hadn't thought of that before. I would also like to see an official FAQ about it.

 

But here are my thoughts on it.

The controlled unit isn't gaining the Controller's [KEYWORD] so it shouldn't be affected by any of the Controllers auras or "Chapter Tactics".

The controlled unit is no longer friendly to the original player, so it wouldn't be affected by their friendly auras.

I would assume that they still benefit from their own "Chapter Tactic" because nothing says they don't. They aren't being removed from the Original's army, just temporarily working against them. Same would go for psychic powers. Any persistent effects would remain. 

 

I think that's how I'd play it as well without knowing anything official. Could be quite bothersome to check all the rules for whether they say "friendly" or not, though that's a different kind of problem. sweat.gif


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpg


#7
Wassa

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Actually I've just found something very similar in the GSC FAQ:

 

 

 

treat that model as if it were a separate unit that is part of your army whilst shooting or making that close combat attack

 


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#8
Dam13n

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It's probably worth pointing out that most auras, doctrines, chapter tactics etc only work on models that possess a certain keyword in their unit profile.

AFAIK none of the abilities that allow temporary control of a unit alter that units keywords.

Also, once that unit comes under your control it is (albeit temporarily) no longer part of your opponents army and is therefore no longer a friendly unit to his army.

As auras, doctrines, tactics etc always state "friendly models/units", any such abilities from enemy models will not benefit a model that has (temporarily) ceased to be friendly.

In other words, and answering the questions posed:
- Original players abilities - no as the affected model is not friendly to his army / is not part of his army, albeit temporarily.
- Controlling players abilities - no, unless it's a mirror match and both players are playing the same army (which would result in the keywords matching up), as all those sorts of abilities are keyword dependant.

#9
Slasher956

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It's probably worth pointing out that most auras, doctrines, chapter tactics etc only work on models that possess a certain keyword in their unit profile.

AFAIK none of the abilities that allow temporary control of a unit alter that units keywords.

Also, once that unit comes under your control it is (albeit temporarily) no longer part of your opponents army and is therefore no longer a friendly unit to his army.

As auras, doctrines, tactics etc always state "friendly models/units", any such abilities from enemy models will not benefit a model that has (temporarily) ceased to be friendly.

In other words, and answering the questions posed:
- Original players abilities - no as the affected model is not friendly to his army / is not part of his army, albeit temporarily.
- Controlling players abilities - no, unless it's a mirror match and both players are playing the same army (which would result in the keywords matching up), as all those sorts of abilities are keyword dependant.

You'd think that wouldnt you...

 

How ever looking through the sisters codex, Craftworld, Guard & Chaos Marine... none of them state that you have to be friendly to get <faction> bonus' as they are applied during list building, so wont be lost if /when you change sides temporarily .

 

Auras - yes most (if not all) state friendly 

 

Pyshic powers - you are friendly when the power goes off, dont know of any that would stop working when you stop being friendly..



#10
Quixus

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Pyshic powers - you are friendly when the power goes off, dont know of any that would stop working when you stop being friendly..

You are not given permission to remove them, so they remain.

#11
Dr_Ruminahui

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I do think psychic powers would continue to work, as they are "triggered" when they are cast and then has a set duration.  So, most psychic powers will either require a friendly or enemy target, which has to be met when the power is cast.  After that moment, it doesn't matter whose side the unit is on - it gets the benefit or drawback until the duration ends.  An example of this is that a psychic power will continue to work for the set duration even if the caster is killed after (or by) the power being cast.

 

As for <TRAITS>, such as <LEGION>, <GOD>, <REGIMENT>, <CHAPTER>, <DYNASTY>, etc those should continue to work, as they only require that you have a detachment all with the same keyword (or with another permitted keyword - Astra Millitarum works that way).  When you take control of it, that doesn't change - or if it does, it does so in your favour (one could argue that when you take control of a unit, you are forming a new and temporary detachment with just it).

 

And for auras, it needs to meet all conditions of that aura.  Given that most auras either only effect friends/enemies and/or require a given keyword, a mind controlled unit is unlikely to benefit from any auras.

 

It does look like one needs to look at the given effects on a case-by-case basis, to determine whether they continue or take effect.


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