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Looking for advice on making a 750 point list.


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9 replies to this topic

#1
GarvielEisenhorn

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Does anyone have any advice for someone trying to put together a 750 point list to get started? I don't want to keep building and painting anything until I'm reasonably sure it's going to be useful. I definitely want to use the Atalan Jackals and I like the idea of a somewhat mechanised cult with Goliaths (Though I do understand that it'd be difficult to fit Rockgrinders into 750 points) but I've read that GSC vehicles are a bit too squishy to be worth it.

What I have painted so far is:
  • Abominant
  • 5x Aberrants (4x Hammers 1x Improvised)
  • 11x Acolytes (Hand Flamers and a Cult Icon)
  • Locus
  • Acolyte Iconward
I've also got about 15 more Acolytes/Metamorphs and a box of Neophytes I'm yet to start on.

I was thinking that Four Armed Emperor would be a good choice, but if I'm using transports the Ambush reliability isn't quite as necessary. Twisted Helix or Pauper Princes maybe?

Whatever advice I could get would be appreciated, even if it's just to tell me what bases I need to cover for this points level.
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#2
Rogue

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I'd definitely finish four more acolytes just to give yourself a battalion.
  • Exilyth likes this

gallery_48988_15094_17045.png gallery_48988_15094_33.png ETL_2018_Medal_04_ETL_Magister.gif ETL_2018_Medal_01_Custos_Fidei_02.gif

 

So far this year: one patriarch, eight genestealers, an icon-ward, five acolytes, a clamavus, five aberrants and the abominant painted; 80 marines and a stormtalon based


#3
Akrim

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Hey Garviel.

My opinion->Ive played smaller levels in my escalation league and I would say at 750 - aim for a battalion. I would go all infantry at this level (My ethos: multiple vehicles or none at all).

Ambush really is the strength of GSC so I wouldnt stray too far. I find the 4Arm creed is best - Helix close second.

At any rate I would say get a Clamavus in there, then make a starting wave for They Came From Below.

Try to fill in the Troops a bit - Neos with a couple Mining Lasers are good but if you dont have buff leaders keep
then cheap - stubbers / nade launchers. Or even just Brood Brothers with a heavy team of your choice)

PS if you go 4Arm consider their relic sword for the Locus - it makes them pretty spicy

Good hunting!
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#4
Exilyth

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I'd like to second/third/fourth the "go for a battalion" sentiment. GSC tend to be CP hungry and a battalion is an easy way to get more CP.

 

Adding more Acolytes and Neophytes first is a good idea.

 

I'd rather use a Kelermorph than the Locus, but that's personal preferrance - both can do a number on an enemy unit, but fullfill slightly different roles.

 

 

Over in http://www.bolterand...eginners-guide/ I posted a 500 points list using 2 Rockgrinders. Including one or multiple Rockgrinders in 750 points is doable, but at such a low points limit, you'll get more usage out of more infantry. The problem with vehicles is that they provide only a pair/few high value targets for the enemies antitank weapons, requiring you to bring multiple or none. Going all infantry denies the enemy the antitank targets.


WH40k: Astra Militarum: ~2500 Pts, Space Marines: ~2000 Pts, GSC: ~500 Pts

and if I had a camera, I'd post some pictures of them.


#5
brother_b

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Be carefulnofnguard in low point games. They can still bring lots of bodies AND tanks. Plan accordingly.

Edited by brother_b, 12 April 2019 - 07:31 PM.

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#6
GarvielEisenhorn

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I'd like to second/third/fourth the "go for a battalion" sentiment. GSC tend to be CP hungry and a battalion is an easy way to get more CP.

 

Adding more Acolytes and Neophytes first is a good idea.

 

I'd rather use a Kelermorph than the Locus, but that's personal preferrance - both can do a number on an enemy unit, but fullfill slightly different roles.

 

 

Over in http://www.bolterand...eginners-guide/ I posted a 500 points list using 2 Rockgrinders. Including one or multiple Rockgrinders in 750 points is doable, but at such a low points limit, you'll get more usage out of more infantry. The problem with vehicles is that they provide only a pair/few high value targets for the enemies antitank weapons, requiring you to bring multiple or none. Going all infantry denies the enemy the antitank targets.

If I were to bring a couple of Trucks, would it be a good idea to also bring Sentinels just to increase the number of vehicles my opponent has to deal with?



#7
Exilyth

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If I were to bring a couple of Trucks, would it be a good idea to also bring Sentinels just to increase the number of vehicles my opponent has to deal with?

 

That is a highly non-trivial question. If you play at a higher points limit, that would be a good idea, but I'd take sentinels for what they provide, not just to take more vehicles.

 

Sentinels are heavy weapons teams (HWTs) on stilts. Sentinels can be cheap brigade filler (w/multilaser), provide anti-elite firepower (armoured w/plasmacannon), antitank alpha strike (2x w/missile launcher and hunter killer missiles) or deny deep strike (scout w/heavy flamer). They're still rather squishy though. Not as squishy as the achilles ridgerunner, but also not as fast. If you want them to move before the game, use the scout sentinel (gets a scout move). If you want them to be slightly less squishy, use the armoured sentinel (no scout move, but has +1 toughness and a better save)

 

If you can spare the heavy support slots, you may get more mileage out of brood brother heavy weapons squads (unit of 3x HWT) with mortars.

For the points cost of a sentinel with multilaser, you could get a min squad of acolytes or a heavy weapons squad with mortars.

Of course, all three units fill different roles.

 

 

As for the other GSC vehicles:

  • The general opinion on Goliath Trucks is that they're overcosted and too squishy for what they do (transport a squad which could be ambushed instead, provide 2 autocannon shots and 3 heavy stubber shots), but your mileage may vary. They're still great to get squads which can not be ambushed due to the ambush limits across the table. Problem is that the same points can net you two 5 acolyte squads + equipment.
  • Goliath Rockgrinders are a bit weird: They are good anti tank in meelee and can carry a heavy weapon. Problem is they won't get to use that weapon once they get into meelee. Transporting 5 acolytes and a character is icing on the cake. The cheapest Rockgrinder (w/seismic cannon) costs as much as two bare bones neophyte squads.
  • Then there's the brood brother leman russ, which has no transport capacity, but a big gun and more staying power. Can take sponsons for even more dakka. The problem is: Leman Russ Tank Commanders from the Astra Militarum Codex can be taken in an allied brood brothers detachment - they're the same unit, but add tank orders and a better ballistic skill on top.
  • Achilles Ridgerunners are fast but squishy, even more than sentinels. The mortar is not as points efficient as brood brother mortar HWTs and firing indirect wastes the heavy stubber shots. The missile launcher + flares is the take all corners option (read: okay vs infantry and tanks, but not the best at either), while heavy mining laser + spotter provides the only 42" ranged mining laser in the army - but at that point cost, you may as well use Atalan Jackals with demo charges instead.

 

 

Which of the units named is best for your list depends on your army composition, your playstyle and your local meta (read: what other armies you face at the friendly local game store (FLGS)). At 750 points, you usually want some cheap bodies to sit them on objectives, some hard hitting unit to remove the enemy from objectives and a bit of anti tank capabilities to counter the occasional leman russ, dreadnought or other vehicle. Also, a bit of utility can help.

 

 

Looking at the list of units you provided, we can see that

  • Neophytes are your objective holding bodies (acolytes can also do this too, but are more squishy)
  • Abominant, Aberrants & Locus are hard hitting meelee units (the blob of hand flamer acolytes can be scary too, but they need to be ambushed to offset the low range)
  • Abominant and Aberrants with hammers can double as anti tank
  • Iconward provides buff utility

 

You seem to be a bit low on anti tank - a unit of 5 Acolytes with 2 Rocksaws could fill that hole/role. Alternatively, Neophytes could be equipped with mining lasers, but the low range would make ambushing them a must - and they can't stand on and hold an objective when they're in reserves.


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WH40k: Astra Militarum: ~2500 Pts, Space Marines: ~2000 Pts, GSC: ~500 Pts

and if I had a camera, I'd post some pictures of them.


#8
GarvielEisenhorn

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How's this for a first draft?

 

Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor

Specialist Detachment: Deliverance Broodsurge

Command Points: 7

 

HQ:

Acolyte Iconward (Warlord: Augur of the Insurgent) [53pts]

Primus [75pts]

 

Troops:

Acolyte Hybrids (10x Hand Flamers + Cult Icon) [90pts]

Acolyte Hybrids (2x Heavy Rock Saw) [55pts]

Acolyte Hybrids (2x Heavy Rock Saw) [55pts]

Neophyte Hybrids (1x Seismic Cannon) [62pts]

 

Elites:

Locus (Relic: Sword of the Four Armed Emperor) [40pts]

 

Fast Attack:

Cult Scout Sentinels (2x Sentinel w/Heavy Flamer) [88pts]

 

Heavy Support:

Goliath Rockgrinder (Clearance Incinerator) [110pts]

Goliath Rockgrinder (Clearance Incinerator) [110pts]

 

Total Points: 738

 

 

With the points I have spare I figure I have a few options:

  • Give both Sentinels Hunter-Killer Missiles (probably not worth it since they'll likely be moving a lot)
  • Swap the Neophytes' Seismic Cannon for a Heavy Stubber and either:
  1. Give both Rockgrinders Demolition Charges or;
  2. Give Cult Icons to both Rock Saw squads.

 

 

The rough idea I have for how to use this list would be to have the Neophytes sit on a home-side objective and deepstrike the flamer Acolytes onto a more distant one. The Rockgrinders (with embarked Rock Saw squads) make a beeline for the most relevant targets and the Sentinels act as a roadblock/screen. The HQs could either go in the Rockgrinders or deepstrike in wherever necessary.

 

How does all that sound?


Edited by GarvielEisenhorn, 15 April 2019 - 11:35 AM.


#9
Exilyth

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Well, that looks like a good start.

 

I'm not sure if only one neophyte squad is enough - that's just 10 bodies and with 2 acolyte squads in rockgrinders and the hand flamer acolytes ambushing, you would present a low number of targets to the enemy (neos + 2 rockgrinders + 2 sentinels). I'd try and work in another squad of neophytes to reduce the risk of being shot off the board T1 or T2.

 

I can't talk about the bloodsurge detachment (& relics) as I don't own the vigilus book yet.

 

 

As for what to do with the last points:

  • hunter killer missiles: Meh. Spending the points for 2 S8 shots is probably not worth it - you could give both sentinels lascannons for the same points, which are S9 and can fire multiple turns. Then again, that would bump the sentinels up on the enemies target priority and only 2 shots from a (most likely) moving platform are not very likely to hit. If you do go this route, you're probably better off with armoured sentinels.
  • Neophyte heavy stubber: Probably a good idea to keep the neophytes cheaper.
  • Rockgrinder extra explosives: I tend to skip the extra explosives due to the short range (only one or two uses before meelee), so I can't really talk about them.
  • Cult Icons: would buff the saw acolytes in meelee. Could combine nicely with the primus riding along (planner ability), but the hand flamer acolytes would benefit more due to being more models.

 

And now for something completely different: how about letting 2x5 hand flamer acolytes ride in the rockgrinders and ambushing a big 10 acolyte squad with 4 saws, icon and primus? Same/similar models used, just in a different way.

 

 

What I would do with the list as is is change the sentinels to armoured sentinels with multilasers (bit more resilient and can pelt enemies from further away with 3 S6 shots), give the neophytes a heavy stubber and use the left over and freed up points to add another squad of neophytes (with maybe another heavy stubber). Then again, this is your army and you shouldn't just blindly follow the advice of random people on the internet. (Except when people give advice about using magnets for vehicle weapons - that makes models much more versatile.)

 

 

Something to note:

  • Cult sentinels can either scout move OR cult ambush, not both (since scout move happens before the ambush token is replaced with the model), so if you ambush them there's no need to take the less resilient scout sentinels over the armoured sentinels (except rule of cool and/or army theme maybe).

WH40k: Astra Militarum: ~2500 Pts, Space Marines: ~2000 Pts, GSC: ~500 Pts

and if I had a camera, I'd post some pictures of them.


#10
Exilyth

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Thank you.

 

Talking about this actually helped me stuff some holes in my own army list(s) - in case you'd like to compare notes, my resulting list(s) can be found over in http://www.bolterand...-full-gsc-list/


WH40k: Astra Militarum: ~2500 Pts, Space Marines: ~2000 Pts, GSC: ~500 Pts

and if I had a camera, I'd post some pictures of them.





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