To drop an LRC or not to drop an LRC

[HighMarshalAmp]

Here's a weird list that's been in my head for some time, combining both 2 Ironclads I really fancy and a 15 man Melta bomb (while completely omitting any kind of backline support):

 

Captain - JP, PA, Combi-Melta

Lieutenant - JP, PA, Combi-Melta

 

Crusader Squad - 3x Initiate w/ Boltgun, 1x Initiate w/ Meltagun, Sword Brother w/ Combi-Melta

Crusader Squad - 3x Initiate w/ Boltgun, 1x Initiate w/ Meltagun, Sword Brother w/ Combi-Melta

Crusader Squad - 3x Initiate w/ Boltgun, 1x Initiate w/ Meltagun, Sword Brother w/ Combi-Melta

 

Ironclad Dreadnought - 2x HK, Assault Launchers, CF, HB, Meltagun

Ironclad Dreadnought - 2x HK, Assault Launchers, CF, HB, Meltagun

 

LRC - HK, MM, SB

 

Which totals 1085pts.

 

You can see the predicament I'm in. If I replace the big bawks with, say, 2 VV squads, I'm golden for points, but I have 15 guys slogging it to the front alongside the two Dreads I'm only running for their coolness' sake anyway - and without a big bawks, those Dreads will only draw more (all of the?) fire.

AND I've dropped 3 Multi-Meltas in the Crusader Squads already for completely different reasons, essentially wasting both the increased shooting potential compared to Tac Marines as well as their increased Melee potential.

So I kinda really need those Meltas at the front.

But keeping the LRC means cutting corners somewhere else, and I don't see where I could snap off a cool 85pts

 

I could always go for a Drop Pod (Ha! Nobody expects Drop Pods!) to get 10 dudes across the board and leave 5 in the back to score, but that would mean passing on the LRC's dakka potential with a max of 144pts to make up for it - which wouldn't even cover the 10 VVs.

I could, of course, add 66pts worth of MMs back.

 

I'd love to run something like that at 1000pts, but of course, as part of a 2000pts list, it would be far more feasible while leaving more options to make up for its many weaknesses.

Anyway, I feel I've maneuvered myself into a corner with this hypothetical list and would love to hear any thoughts and ideas you'd be kind enough to share :)

[bolvar]

Too few bodies for my taste.

 

Also, how would you deal with hordes? If they charge your LRC it cannot shoot, and you don't have enough bodies/attacks to face let say... 60 guards/hormagaunts/boyz/whatever cheap unit you can imagine.

 

I'd take out one dreadnought, change the equipment of one of your crusader squads into a heavy+special weapon + sword bro with combi, add some neophytes in every squad with the points you saved and add another unit, preferably something fast like bikes for objective grab. OR make every crusader squad even bigger and grab a drop pod. In short, you need more boots in the ground.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

It isn't a perfect solution, but:

 

 

    HQs:

Marshal with Teeth of Terra and combi melta

Emperor's Champion

 

 

    Troupes:

2x5 Crusaders with 3 bolters, melta, combi melta

14 crusaders, 7 Initiates, 7 Neophytes, all with chainswords

 

 

    Elites:

Ironclad with assault launchers, chainfist, melta, and CCW/storm bolter

 

 

    Heavies:

LRC with melta

 

 

    Transports:

Drop Pod

 

...

 

This comes out to 1,000 points on the nose. You could swap the EC out for a cheap lieutenant, possibly with a power fist or axe, but I'd keep the EC in. He's a good character-seeking missile and can do his part when clearing hoards. Also has an invuln, which the Lieutenant won't. Swapping the Marshal's melta out for a master bolter could let you upgrade the Ironclad to a hurricane bolter, but I'd advise you to send him after targets solo in a 1,000 point game, advancing and popping smoke round 1. Being able to reroll his hits of 1 without support is probably worth not having a hurricane in this particular setup.

 

Of course it's not a perfect list, but 1,000 points is not where marines shine. It should have legs, though.

 

 

(edited to add second idea:)

 

 

    HQ:

Marshal with Teeth of Terra, Combi Melta

 

 

    Troupes:

2x5 Crusaders, 3 bolters, 1 lascannon, 1 storm bolter SGT

15 Crusaders, 6 chainsword Initiates, 8 knife Neophytes, 1 SGT with power sword

 

 

    Elites:

2x Ironclads, both with assault launchers, chainfists, meltas, and CCW/storm

 

 

    Heavies:

LRC with melta

 

 

...

 

This list also comes out to 1,000 points on the nose. it gives you 2 backfield campers with ranged support, 2 hunting Ironclads, and an LRC packed to the gills with choppy goodness. No EC and no melta surprise, but if you want a more traditional breakdown of Anchor, Center, Hammer, this is better.

[Captain Idaho]

I actually think at 1000pts the dual Ironclad and Land Raider Crusader make up for the lack of bodies against most armies. Toughness 8 is pretty incredible. I say stick.

 

Also...

 

=][= Just dropping this over to our brothers in the Templars keep, for more focused zealotry. =][=

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Err.. [puts smart looking half-spectacles on, studies the lists, thinks hard, thinks eloquently.]

 

LRCs suck.

 

That's the sad truth of it. They get focussed down easy because they have to be in the midst of things to be useful, (bolter drill was welcome in boosting their range for double tap, but hasn't fixed the bigger problems.)

 

The other problem is that people will charge or consolidate into them at every possible opportunity they get. Which will be often, because they are in the midst of the melee.

 

Storm Raven?

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

LRCs aren't the most point efficient models, but if you want one or 2 rounds of shooting and a lascannon spunge they're fine. However, FW aside, there's no other way to get a 14+ melee squad across the field in relative safety. So whether you move 10, then jump them out 3 and move 6 next round, or just put the LRC at the edge of deployment and use it for an extra 3 inch boost of movement as they jump out turn 1, it's not an awful unit. I personally run 1 LRC and 1 Stormraven in most of my 2,000 point lists.

[Exilyth]

If you could free 5 more points, you could exchange the LRC for a third Ironclad Dreadnought.