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New box set rumours. The lion v ?


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#26
RikuEru

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This is essentially just stolen from the conversations we were having in the theory crafting thread.


Same thought.


This is just a blind shot in the dark.
With the usual "tags"

Boxset
+ Subfaction craving Releases (DA/SW/BA, World Eaters, Emperors Children, Sororitas, Inquisition, AdMech to a degree, Tau, until recently Orks, etc.)
+ "New" Big Modell from the Wishlist (Primarchs for either side, Silent King, Primork Ghazkull, etc.)

Optional Addendums for rules:
Re-done Codex or Part of new Campaign Book


And I get it.
A Shooty/half-melee focused Boxset with Primaris DA against whatever (Emperor's Children?), with corresponding Campaign and Lion'el Johnson vs Fulgrim COULD be the next step.

But the same goes for a more Melee oriented Box containing Primaris SW with Russ against World Eaters/ Berserkers with Angron + Campaign or redone SW-Codex and Khorne-Codex.

Or Black Templars or Salmanders vs. Primorks.
Or Raven Guard Primaris vs. New Sphere/Wormhole-Tau. Corax returns to end the false Tyranny of the Tau or so...

All of those could be turned into something that makes sense Storywise.
All of them would sell.
All of them could be turned into Rumors.

This is a futile Endeavour. And with THIS rumour coming from BolS? Yea... not gonna buy that.
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#27
No Foes Remain

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I highly doubt that GW would release a primarch before FW does. I don't have the White Dwarf that had them I but I think some fraters mentioned that GW took insperation from FW's models, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Not that I believe a rumour from BOLS involving a Primarch in a boxed set for a second, but FW Magnus came after GW Magnus. Although that's a Daemon Primarch, so the situation is a bit different.

 

 

Ah, I stand corrected then. thumbsup.gif


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#28
Sete

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*doubt

#29
TempestBlade

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I know it’s “funny” to call the DA traitors but the only traitorous thing they do is leave a battle to go and catch a Fallen. A Fallen who is an actual traitor. Now would you call the Flesh Tearers traitors because they slaughter innocents during a battle? Or the list of other space marines chapter that don’t give a crap about the general population when in a war zone? Sure DA aren’t squeaky clean but traitors? No. At most (and I really mean at most) they could be called renegade. They don’t follow chaos at all, fight chaos at any chance they get, and love Big E. Now that being said if they did do a thing where you get to pick if a DA force is chaos, imperial or unaligned before a battle that would be cool. Just not special characters in a Chaos or Unaligned force. It would be fluffy for a force of the Fallen and be a cool option.
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#30
Triszin

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*doubt


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Ya, this just seems like random bargain bin wish listing.

Let's say someone saw a new box at a glance.
I'd imagine, it's actually emperor's children vs sisters
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#31
Bryan Blaire

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Meh - if the standard to be "traitors" is "not betraying an Imperial force/populace," then the Grey Knights are "traitors" with their blood magic shenanigans and/or mind wipes and/or putting the populace to the sword because Chaos had some stuff appear on their planet. And let's not forget the Inquisition - big ole band of "traitors" there given the Celestial Lions' story.
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#32
Panzer

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Let's say someone saw a new box at a glance.
I'd imagine, it's actually emperor's children vs sisters

 

 

Who would confuse Emperor's Children, especially if it's new potentially much more mutated models, with Dark Angels though? :huh:


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#33
Karhedron

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We know for sure Sisters are coming so making them half of a box set is plausible. The only problem is that it is so plausible it is the sort of thing someone would throw in to make a rumour seem plausible. msn-wink.gif

However GW seems to like 2-faction sets. Since 8th dropped, we have had Dark Imperium, Forgebane, Tooth and Claw and Shadowspear. That is roughly 2 per year so I can easily see Sisters being in the mix if it comes out around Autumn.

As for another Primarch, I would expect them to be saved for campaign releases. We got Abaddon this time round (OK, not quite a Primarch but close and the obvious counterpart to Guilliman). I wouldn't expect to see another Primarch until 2020 at the earliest.
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#34
Halandaar

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If such a set exists at all, it feels more likely that somebody mis-saw/mis-heard and it's actually either

  • Dark Angels vs something that looks Imperial, but isn't (i.e. Traitor Guard) or
  • Fallen vs Imperial

I definitely can't see GW ever making the DA explicitly traitorous. Them acting after their own agenda and being a bit mysterious is one of the things that makes them interesting.


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#35
Brother Tyler

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So BOLS rumor monger sources (un-named, with a track record of spotty reliability) describe a new boxed set featuring "The Lion" on one side and forces that "may be" Imperial on the other.

 

A boxed set is a pretty safe bet. Beyond that, the whole "rumor" looks like wish-listing and click-bait.

 

Assuming there's a shred of validity to the descriptions of the factions, we have three potential outcomes:

 

  • The Dark Angels (and presumably a returned Lion El'Jonson) versus some faction of the Imperium
  • The Dark Angels (and potentially Lion El'Jonson) versus some faction that looks like a faction of the Imperium (Lost and the Damned?)
  • Fallen Angels versus some faction of the Imperium

 

The first outcome, as the discussion so far shows, is quite controversial on two different levels. First, of course, is the Dark Angels turning from the Imperium. Second is the return of an additional (once loyalist) Primarchs and the impact on the overall setting. Personally, I'm not a fan (mild understatement) of either of these. YMMV.

 

The second and third outcomes seem more likely, with the second being the most likely, in my opinion. The reason for this is that I think that the Lost and the Damned have much more potential as a stand alone range than the Fallen Angels. I'm a big fan of the Fallen, mind you (especially when they confess), but they are a niche sub-faction with a much smaller fan base.

 

At this point, I don't see why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. The rumor is pretty dodgy, to say the least. It's entertaining to watch fans on one side poking at the Unforgiven, and those on another feeling a need to defend the honour of the robed angels. We've had this debate before, though, and we'll doubtless have it again (it's a great point of tension that GW has created in the setting, and an aspect of lore that is very nuanced). It's just internet posturing at this point, however. Perhaps we should wait and see what turns up before we set the internet on fire.


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#36
Master Sheol

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BOLS is iunreliable clickbait site but if this rumor would be True my bet would be something like that
DA primaris RW/DW with primaris RW/DW character fighting against new Fallen leading some traitor guards (or just sone regular guards that believed to Fallen and they are now getting the Unforgiven wrath Too)

But it comes from BOLS so it's prpbably a fake clickbait
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#37
twopounder

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It's extremely unlikely da will go chaos on both a marketing and narrative level. Gw is not going to add another chaos primarch to 40k before an imperial and chaos will ramp down soon.

Besides BOLS being the national enquirer of the hobby, the only capacity this would work are the da turning renegade and trying to rebuild the original imperium, based off the imperial truth. This would allow them to fight imperial and chaos forces while still technically being loyal.

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#38
DanPesci

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Although Id agree that DA wouldnt  (and shouldnt) 'go full chaos'....i still see there being a slight chance of a loyalist primarch coming back and not being on board with what guilliman and cawl have been up to. Especially if it ever turns out some primaris fall to chaos/renegade.

 

This could be the Lion, or Russ, or Dorn................The khan??..maybe.. but the white scars have just never been 'big/popular' enough for GW to use their primarch as a major protagonist in this way IMO (sorry scars players!)

 

Is the galaxy not divided in two at the moment with a giant warp rift? Certainly gives some scope for the imperium to be split in two ideologically as well as phsyically (even if they arent outright at each others throats to begin with)

 

However, as with all Bols rumours.....pics or it didnt happen.


Edited by DanPesci, 12 April 2019 - 02:16 PM.

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#39
Trevak Dal

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Yeah, DA are not traitors, even if I don't consider then totally loyal: for them the most important thing is being loyal to the chapter, to hide their dark secrets, but if no secret is involved they will always go for the "Purge the Heretic" way.
If it wasn't BOLS and I was going to believe the rumour I would had said that this "Lion" was a daemon prince that took the old name of the primach as his own nickname.


I think they get a bad rap for the memes and stuff, but nearly every legion had defectors and traitors (of varying degrees and depending on your point of view) theirs just happened near the end of the Heresy civil war and it stung harder.

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#40
Marqol

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I'm probably the first one to put on my tin foil hat and start shouting DA are traitors! But realistically of course that isn't the truth but it's a fun thing to have around the DA, a bit like the Alpha Legion, a murkiness to their true mission etc. How ever Gw recently gave that theory a poke with a simple joke in a community article but GW do like stoking the embers. I wouldn't think it far fetched to be Dark Angels vs Inquisition. Imperial agents are in the works last I heard (Unless I heard wrong) and just because you're fighting the inquisition doesn't mean you're a traitor in the slightest. The story behind it could even be Inquisition have captured a Fallen and we all know how far the Angels will go to stop them spilling anything. 

In the end without more details it does simply sound a bit wish listing. 



#41
Rinion

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Lion on the "Chaos" side is only for the DA memers, lore wise he's one of the most loyal Primarchs if not the most. (Russ maybe?).

 

Imperium does need a Primarch though, probably, or else Chaos will have four eventually for sure! I'm surprised there hasnt been one for either side but guess they had to finish the 8th transition first?


Edited by Rinion, 12 April 2019 - 02:43 PM.


#42
DeadFingers

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Lion on the "Chaos" side is only for the DA memers, lore wise he's one of the most loyal Primarchs if not the most. (Russ maybe?).

 

Imperium does need a Primarch though, probably, or else Chaos will have four eventually for sure! I'm surprised there hasnt been one for either side but guess they had to finish the 8th transition first?

Hopefully, now that Guilliman has a "mirror" in the form of Abaddon, they'll dial it back on making him fight every Daemon Primarch that shows up and make way for other loyalist Primarchs to clash with their traitorous brethren. And yeah I understand that Guilliman is the "vanilla" Primarch and of course he'd be the first one to come back, and that with the Death Guard being the launch faction for 8th of course the Primarchs would fight, but he can't keep fighting everyone everywhere.


Edited by DeadFingers, 12 April 2019 - 04:51 PM.

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#43
wildweasel

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Yeah, I can't see a primarch coming in a battle box release. Maybe a Triumvirate style box, but those were more special/splash releases to tie in with the Gathering Storm and help fill the gap before 8E. Any new primarch is going to be lots of sales, and not something they will offer a 50% discount on.



#44
FlamingDeth

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The Lion being a traitor is the stuff memes and bad fanfiction are made of. I sincerely doubt that GW would go that way but if they did that would be enough to push me out of Warhammer entirely.
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#45
Ishagu

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Lion isn't a traitor. The 40k Dark Angels might be however.

Killing civilians and allies on occasion is one thing - although it's a stretch as they don't have the authority of the Inquisition or the Grey Knights. They often abandon their duty and don't follow the edicts of the Lord Commander and Custodes. For an Astartes to abandon his duties is Heresy. They persue their goals ahead of the goals of the Imperium, and at the cost of it's best interests.

If the Lion returns he should either get the DA and their successors in order or purge them of their more extreme elements. Now that would shake things up.

Edited by Ishagu, 12 April 2019 - 04:50 PM.

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#46
Panzer

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One could argue fighting traitors is their duty as well so hunting the fallen is just a switch of targets, not abandoning their duty.


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#47
Ishagu

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But they've made it hard to judge that's the case. Chasing down one guy and abandoning a warzone that results in the loss of a planet?

They need a thorough Audit.
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#48
FlamingDeth

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The only reason that they "often abandon their duties" is that GW contradicts themselves all the time and, despite stating that they can go generations without a fallen sighting, can't seem to write any DA battles without the fallen. They have no subtlety. When was the last time they wrote about DA and didn't involve the fallen? Pandorax I think? And before that, maybe Piscina? I don't even remember. It doesn't happen often.

Now that Luther is on the lamb and the Fallen are starting to gather in larger numbers they at least have an excuse, but every time they appear they should be contributing to the larger narrative *of the Dark Angels*, rather than the Ultramarines like on Vigilus, otherwise it's just lazy writing. Even so, they went to disable the fallen superweapon thing which was definitely still fighting the good fight, the only thing that they could be accused of is lack of communication, which everyone should be used to by now.

EDIT: But that's going off topic so I won't keep on! The point is I suspect and hope that the rumor is baloney.

Edited by FlamingDeth, 12 April 2019 - 05:10 PM.

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#49
HandsWithLegs

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While I really hope this is true, and really want the Lion and some major tweaks to the DA codex, this rumor is probably (sadly) censored.gif


Edited by Brother Tyler, 12 April 2019 - 07:11 PM.

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#50
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Best thing about a Lion model is just how awesome and bad ass he could look.
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