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Some reflections on Malevolence, BA fluff and 40k


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BA are clearly at disadvantage of being one of the last Legions to be covered in HH. It is difficult tusk to provide each of the 18 Legions with well thought and different background and for me there are clear ups and downs of the book. I must confess that I really enjoyed the pre-Sanguinius fluff. It’s a good thing to see initial BA’s bloodthirst as stemming both from an urge to kill as well as conscious effort  on terrorizing the enemy. Also, at last there are marines putting the omophagea to some use. I like the idea of speeding up recruits’ training by absorbing knowledge in this way and preserving skills and experiences of the fallen commanders by ritual cannibalism. Marines are post-human and no such taboos should bind them. Just like in BL series, the biggest let-down is Sanguinius: self-pitying, emotionally unstable, emo crybaby, running away from burdensome situations and obviously unfit to command any army. Primarch responsible for extermination of dozens of worlds, unable to kill some mutants, because they used to be imperial citizens – how? Maybe the Emperor was right choosing Horus for Warmaster. Baal Secundus being exempt from Imerial Truth, so the god-like reverence of Sanguinius could apparently go on is odd and interesting but seems more in line with the 3rd ed Cult of Sanguinius fluff than modern space-atheist-warrior monks.

 

But these are not main reasons for this post. I dare to claim to be 100% sure that none of the authors cared to read BA codex.

 

World Eaters used to be BA rivals, here they are best buds as fellow outcasts among the Legions.

 

Death Company’s battle markings are said in codex to symbolize Sanguinius’ wounds from duel with Horus. Let me cite few bits about 202nd company on Signus:  …they met instead a wall of Legiones Astartes in armour of black, the songs of Baal heavy in the air about them (…) It was Elai Jannus and the survivors of the Ifrit Nine’s wreck; (…) Each of those in that company of death swore to exact a high price for their blood, to wrest a final chance from victory from disaster and marked their armour in the Baalite fashion, a cross of blood on their ash-stained battle plate. Yeah, we got the reference FW. Aside from blatant contradiction and question, how in any other circumstances, with normal red armor, they were supposed to use these “traditional” markings, I am curious, how completely incidental color pattern (the black was literally dirt) on guys who were among the few NOT to succumb to the rage after Sanguinius’ fall, ended as DC markings. Yes, they were revered as martyrs afterwards, but it’s still a looong way to go between a dead guy and DC, especially that they were not the only ones to die heroically.

 

Sanguinary Priests are mentioned as created by Sanguinius, yet they are completely absent from Malevolence, just like from BL. I think this is a big miss, especially with the cult of Sanguinius on Baal. They would fit nicely initial reorganization of the Legion. If BA follow their commanders closely because their will is the will of Sanguinius, Priests, after all embodying the Primarch thanks to his blood in their veins, would help to control other BA. I hope, that despite of BL, they are going to be introduced later. If Sanguinius realizes the special bond between himself and BA, in order to avoid another Signus he can reform the Apothacerium, by turning them into his vessels by injections of his blood, so the Legion can always feel his presence. Strengthening this bond can nicely backfire with his death and we once again would get the theme of good intentions leading to bad effects.

 

Red Thirst (?) – somehow I know even less about it after reading the book. The pre-Heresy Flaw is described as: a creeping degeneracy brought on by extreme trauma or exposure to toxic conditions [like comments on Facebook?] that induced a state that allowed the afflicted to survive even the most crippling wounds or conditions, but also kindled within them a mindless rage and lust for blood. To me it reads like a complete mishmash of the Red Thirst and Black Rage. I thought that ignoring wounds was linked solely with BR and the “trauma” would also point in this direction.

 

Primaris Marines – calm down, they are not here. But, we know that Cawl purified their gene-seed to the initial state, as desired by the Emperor. What brings us to a very interesting questions: what were Emp’s plans for BA? It is explicitly stated in Malevolence that: The Blood Angels struggled against the fate written into their very genes, defied the role the Emperor chose for them and dared to believe they can transcend the darkness that followed them. Also on other places it is implied that pre-Sanguinius state is what the Emperor wanted and that Sanguinius’ reforms de facto acted against Emp’s initial plans for BA (can’t find this one now, but I am sure this is nearly a quote). But on another page we read that after unification with Sanguinius: They were a legion fully formed, so much nore now than simple bludgeon they had once been, and this is perhaps the truest evidence of the Emperor’s plan for His Legions, that with their Primarchs they became whole – far more than the sum of their genetic legacy and the harsh lessons of Unification. Am I the only one confused? Anyway, the Primarch is no more and Cawl was creating Primaris marines and their chapters without in-depth knowledge about BA culture. So shouldn’t the new Primaris BA Successors behave like those bloodthirsty berserkers from Terra? Shouldn’t they be extra violent?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Oh, and destroying  Imperial fleets trying to explore Signus afterwards? Wrong Angels FW, wrong Angels.  

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Topic may need a "Spoiler" marker for people. I don't specifically care but someone might.

 

So the primaris thing is now conflated, to be sure. However the fact that they show bloody tendencies (Corbulo being shocked at their manner) may harken back to what the book says. 10k years and the thoughts that BA were anything but angelic was never a thing.

 

Sanguinary priests are a swing and a miss in this book. Real good opportunity to help out and missing the grail aspect also was a miss. Why the cups are such a thing is never explained when it was a great wargear opportunity for BA. Just a bad idea.

 

The warcrimes units seemed self explanatory to me. Was going to go "Death company" on them anyway so good to see that's where they were going. Probably going to do something where instead of being painted black I dry brush black to make them look like they covered themselves in soot.

Red thirst was full of counter evidence to how it was always described. I count that as FW (I.E. not Alan's FW) not knowing how to flush them out.

It's still a good read and paints them in a reverse tragedy: Fallen from grace and risen up to greatness. After siege of terra, it's interesting to think that they opted to keep the memory of sanguinius alive than to allow themselves to go back to their original form. Shows a form of nobility that previous only Sangy helped bring about.

Also, they don't go into any detail about Amit short of a little blurb during the Ka'Bandha fight. Also a missed opportunity.

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Primaris Marines – calm down, they are not here. But, we know that Cawl purified their gene-seed to the initial state, as desired by the Emperor. What brings us to a very interesting questions: what were Emp’s plans for BA? It is explicitly stated in Malevolence that: The Blood Angels struggled against the fate written into their very genes, defied the role the Emperor chose for them and dared to believe they can transcend the darkness that followed them. Also on other places it is implied that pre-Sanguinius state is what the Emperor wanted and that Sanguinius’ reforms de facto acted against Emp’s initial plans for BA (can’t find this one now, but I am sure this is nearly a quote). But on another page we read that after unification with Sanguinius: They were a legion fully formed, so much nore now than simple bludgeon they had once been, and this is perhaps the truest evidence of the Emperor’s plan for His Legions, that with their Primarchs they became whole – far more than the sum of their genetic legacy and the harsh lessons of Unification. Am I the only one confused? Anyway, the Primarch is no more and Cawl was creating Primaris marines and their chapters without in-depth knowledge about BA culture. So shouldn’t the new Primaris BA Successors behave like those bloodthirsty berserkers from Terra? Shouldn’t they be extra violent?

Well about that ...

 

TheKhovan Incident

Fascinated by the Primaris Space Marines

– or more specifically, their potential to

advance his research into a cure for the

Flaw – Brother Corbulo makes it his

business to accompany them into battle

wherever he can. ThusCorbulo is on

hand during the final attack on the Alpha

Legion’s Fortress of Lies on Khovan.

Spearheaded by Vindicators and Repulsors,

the Blood Angels’ attack breaches the

immense fortification, allowing squads of

Intercessors to pour inside. Yet the Alpha

Legionnaires draw out the fight, baiting

their enemies and striking to wound

and goad the Primaris Blood Angels

wherever possible.

Though victory is eventually secured,

the violence unleashed by several of the

Primaris brothers to achieve it is extreme,

with traitors torn limb from limb. No

official censure is applied to the battlebrothers

in question, but Corbulo seeks

audience with Dante shortly afterward. His

deep disquiet is evident…

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I agree the text is contradictory. However, I feel like there is a way to reconcile this. The Emperor could have still planned for the IXth to be bloody handed murders and nothing more - even when reunited with their Primarch. That's still better than the pre Sanguinius state they were in. But then Sanguinius elevated the Blood Angels further beyond this role - which is where the first quote comes in. This also aligns with Sanguinus himself - becoming a symbol of the crusade despite clearly being a mutant and thus not really suitable for it.

 

There is also the fascinating possibility that IXth were meant to fulfill the role of the World Eaters in the crusade. i.e Bloody Weapon of the Imperium- but while the WE's Primarch dragged them down to that role, Sanguinius elevated the Blood Angels beyond it. 

 

Slightly aside, I hate a lot of the BL potrayal of Sanguinius, except for the short story "The Passing of Angels" - there Sanguinus reconciles these competing views by articulating that he and marines are weapons for the betterment of mankind, but that this golden future is not for them. Contrast to Horus' worries about being cast aside and even Guiliman's thoughts that Marines would be part of the administration of the Imperium - and for me it's this humility that keeps the Blood Angels loyal.

Edited by Pathstrider
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@Spagunk &  sfPanzer

When I read about the Khovan incident I did not took it as anything special. For me, it reads like veiled reintroduction of the Red Thirst to Primaris and not something alien to BA - you have to justify them having the same special rules as the rest of BA. Some isolated cases of savagery seem to me to fit in the current BA modus operandi and problems with RT. Corbulo is worried, because he has too readily announced Dante that Primaris are free from the Flaw in Devastation of Baal. I have impression that in Malevolence the pre-Sanguinius blood frenzy went beyond RT and was certainly widespread. Maybe GW will try to clear the issue, although I highly doubt it.

 

I agree the text is contradictory. However, I feel like there is a way to reconcile this. The Emperor could have still planned for the IXth to be bloody handed murders and nothing more - even when reunited with their Primarch. That's still better than the pre Sanguinius state they were in. But then Sanguinius elevated the Blood Angels further beyond this role - which is where the first quote comes in. This also aligns with Sanguinus himself - becoming a symbol of the crusade despite clearly being a mutant and thus not really suitable for it.

 

There is also the fascinating possibility that IXth were meant to fulfill the role of the World Eaters in the crusade. i.e Bloody Weapon of the Imperium- but while the WE's Primarch dragged them down to that role, Sanguinius elevated the Blood Angels beyond it. 

 

 

Yes, this could be a way to keep the text consistent, I have not thought about that.

Your comparision of BA and WE is very elegant, I hope FW or BL is going to touch on the subject during the  confrontation of both legions on Terra.

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I honestly don’t ever remember our beloved Primarch portrayed as a sissy or emo .

During the Signus campaign he retired from the front lines and leaving it to the rank and file marines due to fighting mutant ex imperial citizens was to traumatic for him to face (at least that's whats said by the in universe author of book 8)

Fear to Tread say's he was there all the time and is from the perspective of the marines that could see him, so in this case FtT is canon while book 8 is canon in universe misrepresentation of what we know from FtT due to the BA's not wanting to talk about it and the in universe author going to other sources. I'm guessing Robute is the other source and might in part explain the author saying that Robute is playing at propaganda and dislikes that it's happening.

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Note also his behavior after Signus, when forced to remain idle due to warpstorms cutting Signus off from the rest of galaxy he simply retreates to his chambers, leaving BA without any orders – no reorganization, no words of rally, no nothing. The Legion has to scramble form the losses completely on its own, because Sanguinius prefers to dwell in his dark predictions.

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The red thirst has always been described as letting them endure more than usual in older fluff. In fact in second and third edition, those who fell fully to the red thirst were *also* inducted into the death company with those who fell to the rage.

 

They are maddened by the blood thirst. In fact, originally Mephiston fell to the thirst, not to the rage, when he was inducted into the death company, and his rules reflected that with that he had to pass a test to consolidate, if he failed he had to stop and drink blood.

 

Also, just because he established the priesthood doesn’t mean it existed the whole time. He literally could have established it hours before he died.

 

As for the rivalry to the Word Bearers, they can be best friends and still have a rivalry.

 

To the colors of the death company, so what? Symbols change all the time.

 

The red thirst being brought on as described is how it’s described in Dante. It’s combat and the blood that makes them “thirsty”, and combat is traumatic.

Edited by Arkangilos
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The most important question here is which codex? 8th Edition? They could be forgiven for sticking to Codex Angels of Death, as they have adhered pretty closely to the 2nd edition iterations of each legion so far. 2nd Edition Codex Chaos and Index Astartes are the primary source materials, with some cool throwbacks to Epic Space Marine iterations of each Legion. 

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Just thinking on the ability of the blood angels to thrive unsupported, what implication might this have in imperium nihilus? Are there going to be a LOT of blood angel sucessors next time we see them?

 

That was pre-codex reform. It shouldn’t affect anything now that they’ve been codex for 10,000 years.

 

I was under the impression the "thrive unsupported" part was in part a reference to the fact the IX Legion geneseed can turn just about ANY human into a proper space marine, whereas most other genelines would need strict screening of aspirants, meaning the Angels would be able to recruit replacement fighters wherever they campaign... Maybe the BAs should start recruiting outside Baal, for a change?

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World Eaters used to be BA rivals, here they are best buds as fellow outcasts among the Legions.

I see no reason why both can't be true especially in the period before either Primarch was found. Making this one of the healthy rivalries during the Great Crusade. 

 

 

Death Company’s battle markings are said in codex to symbolize Sanguinius’ wounds from duel with Horus. Let me cite few bits about 202nd company on Signus:  …they met instead a wall of Legiones Astartes in armour of black, the songs of Baal heavy in the air about them (…) It was Elai Jannus and the survivors of the Ifrit Nine’s wreck; (…) Each of those in that company of death swore to exact a high price for their blood, to wrest a final chance from victory from disaster and marked their armour in the Baalite fashion, a cross of blood on their ash-stained battle plate. Yeah, we got the reference FW. Aside from blatant contradiction and question, how in any other circumstances, with normal red armor, they were supposed to use these “traditional” markings, I am curious, how completely incidental color pattern (the black was literally dirt) on guys who were among the few NOT to succumb to the rage after Sanguinius’ fall, ended as DC markings. Yes, they were revered as martyrs afterwards, but it’s still a looong way to go between a dead guy and DC, especially that they were not the only ones to die heroically.

I see no problem with this either as I encountered it multiple times in my work. Iconography and symbolism are very complex subjects in our world. Have the markings be originally traditional Baalite panoply only to later have the symbolism of Sanguinius wounds attached to them feels very real and relateble to historical evolution of various symbols.  

 

 

 

Red Thirst (?) – somehow I know even less about it after reading the book. The pre-Heresy Flaw is described as: a creeping degeneracy brought on by extreme trauma or exposure to toxic conditions [like comments on Facebook?] that induced a state that allowed the afflicted to survive even the most crippling wounds or conditions, but also kindled within them a mindless rage and lust for blood. To me it reads like a complete mishmash of the Red Thirst and Black Rage. I thought that ignoring wounds was linked solely with BR and the “trauma” would also point in this direction.

 This also feels like a well thought out evolution from a broader psychological reaction towards distinct mainfestation following a particularly strong trauma (death of Sanguinius) and in a way branching of the psychological problem into destinct categories. 

 

 

 

Oh, and destroying  Imperial fleets trying to explore Signus afterwards? Wrong Angels FW, wrong Angels.

I found it a nice homage to earlier BA background that hinted to civilians going missing on worlds they visited. In short a reminder that though they have the visage of angels they are not any kind of angels but angles of death. 

 

 

Cheers 

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I just got mine and I am absolutely loving their fluff.

 

I don’t know if anyone here is Catholic, but we believe that the Eucharist (and communion) is the body. Partaking in the the body and blood of Christ brings us closer to him.

 

This is like a darker version, where to become like those who came before they eat their flesh and drink their blood. A sort of “communion” so to speak. This will definitely go into my Sanguinary Crusaders rituals!

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The red thirst has always been described as letting them endure more than usual in older fluff. In fact in second and third edition, those who fell fully to the red thirst were *also* inducted into the death company with those who fell to the rage.

 

They are maddened by the blood thirst. In fact, originally Mephiston fell to the thirst, not to the rage, when he was inducted into the death company, and his rules reflected that with that he had to pass a test to consolidate, if he failed he had to stop and drink blood.

 

Also, just because he established the priesthood doesn’t mean it existed the whole time. He literally could have established it hours before he died.

 

As for the rivalry to the Word Bearers, they can be best friends and still have a rivalry.

 

To the colors of the death company, so what? Symbols change all the time.

 

The red thirst being brought on as described is how it’s described in Dante. It’s combat and the blood that makes them “thirsty”, and combat is traumatic.

 

 

The most important question here is which codex? 8th Edition? They could be forgiven for sticking to Codex Angels of Death, as they have adhered pretty closely to the 2nd edition iterations of each legion so far. 2nd Edition Codex Chaos and Index Astartes are the primary source materials, with some cool throwbacks to Epic Space Marine iterations of each Legion. 

 

The Flaw and the codices:

Subsequent editions do not represent historical development of the Chapter, but  annul the older ones, at least when covering the same things (BTW, large parts of 8ed codex are taken verbatim from Angels of Death). Thus, 2nd and 3rd ed codices can only show where writers are taking inspiration from, but do not ease contradictions in fluff. Today’s fluff gives Red Thirst as the more widespread part of the Flaw, while in 2nd and 3rd ed it was confined to those suffering from the Black Rage. IIRC, in 3rd ed rules Black Rage was the army rule and RT the DC special rule, while today Red Thirst is the army rule.

War is hell, but is really the word “trauma” a proper one when describing Space Marines’, psycho-indoctrinated, gene-manipulated killing machines’ experience of fighting? Anyway, I was rather baffled by the toxic conditions and by the stressed resilience to wounds. When overtaken by the Thirst one for sure does not pay attention to much of what is happening around, but the most crippling wounds reads to me as a bit too much for current fluff.   

 

The Priesthood:

He could have even twitted it from Vengeful Spirit. The question remains, why during the Siege? To prepare BA for his death? To prepare BA for another confrontation with Ka'Bandha (if he had known it was coming)?

 

 

 

Death Company’s battle markings are said in codex to symbolize Sanguinius’ wounds from duel with Horus. Let me cite few bits about 202nd company on Signus:  …they met instead a wall of Legiones Astartes in armour of black, the songs of Baal heavy in the air about them (…) It was Elai Jannus and the survivors of the Ifrit Nine’s wreck; (…) Each of those in that company of death swore to exact a high price for their blood, to wrest a final chance from victory from disaster and marked their armour in the Baalite fashion, a cross of blood on their ash-stained battle plate. Yeah, we got the reference FW. Aside from blatant contradiction and question, how in any other circumstances, with normal red armor, they were supposed to use these “traditional” markings, I am curious, how completely incidental color pattern (the black was literally dirt) on guys who were among the few NOT to succumb to the rage after Sanguinius’ fall, ended as DC markings. Yes, they were revered as martyrs afterwards, but it’s still a looong way to go between a dead guy and DC, especially that they were not the only ones to die heroically.

I see no problem with this either as I encountered it multiple times in my work. Iconography and symbolism are very complex subjects in our world. Have the markings be originally traditional Baalite panoply only to later have the symbolism of Sanguinius wounds attached to them feels very real and relateble to historical evolution of various symbols.  

 

 

The DC markings:

Symbols change their meaning, but as you stated, it’s a complex issue. I just can’t imagine, why and how in this particular instance. If the Baalite symbol was already associated with sacrifice, why it should change its meaning, if it suited DC so well (sacrifice & martyrdom)? And if they wanted to associate DC with Sanguinius’ death, why choose this, as a matter of fact accidental, color pattern, not related to him in any way? I gladly accept that among the BA successor chapters Baalite traditions were changed and adapted to their purposes (white DC and so on), but why on Baal itself?

 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, it didn't explicitly say they destroyed those fleets. It's meant to be mysterious. Enjoy the ambiguity, don't try to make it a definite. 

 

Sure, doubts remain, just like with the whole DA killing BT fluff. But both are so heavily implied, that I wouldn’t call it that ambiguous.

Edited by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla
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I think you answer your own question on the subject of the DC markings. Well at least from how I see the issue. 

 

The symbols they have are related to sacrifice and martydom, and are meant to represent them. Now when you think about what act is the ultimate example of sacrifice in BA cultural history and to me makes perfect sense a "generic" symbol of sacrifice would be turned into a specific one. Even more so if we know the members of DC believe they are Sanguinius themselves. So the symbol of martydom which is shown on their armour become equated with the representation of actual Sanguinius' martydom which are his wounds. 

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I would wholeheartedly accept the pattern you drew, if it was only about simple transition between a generic symbol of sacrifice to a specific one. However, it is about a generic symbol of sacrifice changing into:

1). a specific one (202nd company);

2). a more specific one (Sanguinius);

3). yet an even more specific one (Sanguinius’ wounds).

And since after death of Sanguinius we would expect him to immediately become the symbol of sacrifice per se, stages 1&2 took place at the same time during creation of DC. Of course,  unless FW or BL introduces some proto-DC during the Heresy. I mean marines painting their armor black with red crosses in honor of the 202nd , maybe a new default color scheme for the Moritats or during last stands a la Day of Sorrow.

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It’s not a symbol of the 202nd.

 

The symbols were from Baal.

 

Also, black has through history been the color of mourning and penance, along with ashes and dirt. It is not a big leap.

 

Also I think you are wrong about the other things too, but I won’t have my sources until I get home, then I’ll be able to verify.

 

-edit-

Sorry my last pre edit statement was more blunt and tougher than I intended. It was pretty arrogant too :/

Edited by Arkangilos
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I would wholeheartedly accept the pattern you drew, if it was only about simple transition between a generic symbol of sacrifice to a specific one. However, it is about a generic symbol of sacrifice changing into:

1). a specific one (202nd company);

2). a more specific one (Sanguinius);

3). yet an even more specific one (Sanguinius’ wounds).

And since after death of Sanguinius we would expect him to immediately become the symbol of sacrifice per se, stages 1&2 took place at the same time during creation of DC. Of course, unless FW or BL introduces some proto-DC during the Heresy. I mean marines painting their armor black with red crosses in honor of the 202nd , maybe a new default color scheme for the Moritats or during last stands a la Day of Sorrow.

Didn’t we already see at the very beginning of FtT (in a prologue, IIRC?) that IXth Legionaries who fell the the RT* would see their armour stained black in mourning as they were considered dead. I don’t recall the red X’s, but that’s not much of a stretch either. It seems the text calls out the 202nd as marines wearing the black because they were the company of the dead, or something like it, considering the text you quoted.

 

So what’s new here?

 

 

* or is it BR? I’m no BA fanatic and sometimes confuse the two

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I would wholeheartedly accept the pattern you drew, if it was only about simple transition between a generic symbol of sacrifice to a specific one. However, it is about a generic symbol of sacrifice changing into:

1). a specific one (202nd company);

2). a more specific one (Sanguinius);

3). yet an even more specific one (Sanguinius’ wounds).

And since after death of Sanguinius we would expect him to immediately become the symbol of sacrifice per se, stages 1&2 took place at the same time during creation of DC. Of course,  unless FW or BL introduces some proto-DC during the Heresy. I mean marines painting their armor black with red crosses in honor of the 202nd , maybe a new default color scheme for the Moritats or during last stands a la Day of Sorrow.

 

The thing of black armour and the red crosses is from the sacrifice later on of the 202nd as they sold themselves so the artillery train could survive longer

"Each of those in that company of death swore to exact a high price for their blood, to wrest a final chance for victory from disaster, and marked their armour in the Baalite fashion, a cross of blood on their ash-stained battle plate."

 

the Baalite fashion is the red crosses, but we don't know what they mean since they sadly haven't gone into Baalite culture, other than like the Wolves and Fenris, the Imperial Truth is not allowed there and the black armour is from the ash fields they marched through, from their crashed ship the Ifrit Nine, the same ship that also saved the BA fleet from being overrun by zombie ships. So that's twice the 202nd sacrificed themselves for their Legion's survival.

 

Also side note P.202 is the first page of the Blood angels rules in the book

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