Book 9: Your thoughts

[Taliesin]

Info from the Heresy forum, courtesy of Pendraigg who always does great write-ups I'm copy pasting it here ( if this is  not ok than I will remove it)

 

Book IX - Crusade (general information)

 

By the time of Malevolences release, Book IX had already seen six months development work and the team are now at the point of playtesting units in their second or third forms. Most of the narrative is written. Although the team would not commit to a release date, they did say that there would not be a two year wait between Black Books this time.

 

 

 

The book will contain a section titled, 'Galaxy in Flames'. This is a full campaign system for representing an entire Expeditionary fleet at war including Astartes, Mechanicum, Army and Legio forces. This will be the basis for the Thramas Crusade campaign between the Dark Angels and Night Lords.

 

 

 

The book will also contain a system on Dark technology which will be available to all factions. This is similar to the psyarkana section in Malevolence that will just give more options to armies.

 

Some new details include that the emphasis won't be on the Calibanite feature of the legion but more on the Terran origins and the role of the First Legion in the late Unification Wars, Great Crusade and early Heresy. This will include more details on the Rangdan Xenocides!

 

 

 

The look of the legion (as seen in the artwork and on the model previews on the Warhammer community website) is more knightly than robed monk. There will also be no green on the armour at all - there will be a great focus on black, white and red.

 

 

 

In terms of rules, the team may tweak the existing legio Astartes rules and the existing RoWs to match the intent in Book IX. The wings that are unique to the Dark Angels are most likely to be represented by RoW but they are exploring other options. Each wing will have something in the rules to represent them on the table. One example was the firewing that has an emphasis on cloak and dagger operations and assassinations.

 

 

 

One large part of the First Legion will be the focus that they are the prototype behind all other Legions. Therefore they have technology that is not accessible to other Legions that was gifted to them by the Emperor. This include Terran technology such as battle-automata that is skirting AI. This uniqueness will be able to be represented on the tabletop as well through wargear.

 

ook IX - Crusade (Dark Mechanicum)

 

This will a full list that will also explore the background and philosophy of the dark Mechanicum. One interesting new feature is that members of the Dark Mechanicum are not always sided with Horus - some may be Loyalist. The definition of a member of the Dark Mechanicum is that they are using technology that is frowned upon by the Emperor - it is a belief system rather than a side in the war that is more shades of grey, rather than black and white. The narrative within the book will explore this more and chart its development throughout the Great Crusade.

 

 

 

The army list will emphasis constructs rather than daemon-engines as this is more of a scouring-period development. There will changes to the standard army list as by nature, a DM army is extremely feudal and is focused on the archmagos. 

 

 

 

You are only allowed one HQ in the army and this allows you to select a type of Dark Mechanicum philosophy to follow. These are:

 

A.I.

Warp-based technology as a power source (not daemonic in origin)

Gene-crafting or the use of xenos technology.

All three of these are proscribed by the Imperium. Each one will open up unit and wargear options in a similar way to Militia traits or daemon dominions.

 

 

 

The archmagos controls all the units on the table in a manner similar to cybertheurgy. Although there is only one HQ, you can purchase more control nodes to spread the influence of the archmagos further.

[Marshal Rohr]

As long as the list includes generic Skitarii and their units I’m cool with it.

[Brother Styphus]

. One example was the firewing that has an emphasis on cloak and dagger operations and assassinations.

 

Wait, what? I didnt expect that the mystery wing would be assassination based, but neat. Seems odd that the Calabanites would hold the master of assassination to such a high regard in Angel's of Caliban, when they were being so gung ho about honor and such.

[Arkangilos]

I’m more baffled by the name. Fire does not give me the image of cloaked and shadowed, lol.

[Charlo]

PLUS they've said previously that Ravenwing were on the double duty of spies/ infiltration/ assassination etc...

 

We'll see I guess!

[Taliesin]

It really looks very interesting, the stuff about the Dark Mechanicum will be very fascinating and I am keen to see not just the narrative for Thramas Crusade ( Titan & Knight War included!) but also the early histort of the Dark Angels, these references to Late Unification Wars stuff are tantalizing. Plus, Terran Battle Automata, AI... very nice...

[No Foes Remain]

 

-snip-

 

The book will contain a section titled, 'Galaxy in Flames'. This is a full campaign system for representing an entire Expeditionary fleet at war including Astartes, Mechanicum, Army and Legio forces.

 

-snip-

 

 

This. I want this so much. Suprising its taken so long to get to that point, I guess there had to be a lot of playtesting to get the factions right before getting there?

[Marshal Rohr]

Maybe Skimask can weigh in, but I have a hard time imagining any game involving a warlord being anything but unbalanced and asymmetric or narrative for the side without a warlord. Edited May 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[MegaVolt87]

Would like to see Malcarion and that head apothocary guy for NL. Models would look great. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I think the main thing is narrative where everyone knows a head of time what they're heading in for.

 

I played in a narrative event the other week where we just got the mission package the day of, where it was promptly tweaked heading into the second mission to be less fair for the traitors.

 

The lack of knowledge drastically affected my enjoyment of the event. So in the case of a warlord, maybe if they know they'll be against one they'll find it enjoyable.

[Slips]

Ive played 1 Apoc game that was 6v6 with 1 "neutral" warlord in the center of the table that could be boarded which brought you to a ZM board. Control of the center Objective there let you turn on 1 weapon and fire it wherever.

 

Our opponents won control of it but it died the literal next turn when we just all turned our guns on it. (And this was on turn 4 when the game was nearing its end).

 

Mind you, this was 6v6 5k per player with at least 2 Warhounds and 1 Reaver per side (of which, my 1 surviving Storm Shield Wielding Termy with a Chainfist charged, hit and pen'd the last 1 hull point off of it and died in the ensuing nuclear explosion).

 

Basically, if you know one is there and your armies are large enough, they kinda die like anything else given enough attention especially with S:D being flung around liberally.

[rendingon1+]

 

Someone has better quality of thic pics?

[MegaVolt87]

Maybe DA get a custom variant of Sicaran Omega. I hear its not great in HH, doesn't seem great in 40k either. Cool model though. 

[Charlo]

Well those are tasty! Looks like the same tactical marine from book 6 though.

[carlisimo]

Well those are tasty! Looks like the same tactical marine from book 6 though.

The book 6 Dark Angel was in Mk II with a sculpted chestplate, custom helmet, and didn’t have any unfamiliar symbols like that red and blue heraldry.

[Fire Golem]

Well those are tasty! Looks like the same tactical marine from book 6 though.

Nope:

 

http://i.imgur.com/FmzNWDQ.jpg

[Brother Styphus]

If the book isn't hard locked to the Thramas crusade time period, the red and blue check heraldry could be something about combined arms with Blood Angels and Ultramarines during ImpSecundus.

[Son of Carnelian]

Having now read the majority of Book 8, I can't say I'm as excited for the Thramas Crusade as I was before. The writing style has undergone a noticeable shift with the passing of Mr. Bligh. Book 8 felt less like a historical account and more of an editorial essay based around gathered information. I don't think the Thramas Crusade, with it's mystery and confusion, will benefit from this style.

[Brother Styphus]

I think I've been seeing the Thramas crusade incorrectly for a few years now. It was a long and drawn out campaign to tar pit the DA, with Curze going to random planets and committing genocides until the DA would arrive, after which they would run off before the full fleet of DA could take action.

 

Having big drawn out battles with Knights and Titans doesnt really make sense in that narrative.

[Leif Bearclaw]

After them getting the Luna Wolves' colours wrong in Malevolence (among other irritating errors), I'm kinda expecting at least one reference to green armoured DAs, or Bone armoured Deathwing. But then I'm a pessimist .

[StruManChu]

I think I've been seeing the Thramas crusade incorrectly for a few years now. It was a long and drawn out campaign to tar pit the DA, with Curze going to random planets and committing genocides until the DA would arrive, after which they would run off before the full fleet of DA could take action.

 

Having big drawn out battles with Knights and Titans doesnt really make sense in that narrative.

As far as I'm aware we're not 100% on the launch or the logistics of the Thramas Crusade. However, the fact that it's called the Thramas 'Crusade' implies a level of largesse and inter-Imperial cooperation that perhaps Prospero lacked. We know there's going to be Dark Mech in the book, so it makes sense that there's a 'Good-Mech' counter to that. It also makes sense that they'd send in the big guns, not knowing what they might be facing in the traitor forces, and with the spectre of the DAoT and Old Night hanging over the Mechanicum.

 

It's entirely within the character of both of the Primarchs involved that the Thramas Crusade may have started as a conventional conflict, and then the terms of engagement change with Curze not adhering the sensible strategies, attacking random Imperial worlds instead of significant ones, and the Lion giving into zeal and chasing Curze instead of sticking with the larger force, as we see him do in Imperium Secondus.

 

There's every chance this book is going to be good. I'm really looking forward to it. I can't wait to see the detail of how the Wings work and all that. There's absolutely no point writing it off as bad before it's in our hands and we know what's been written. No one kicked up much of a fuss when it wasn't just the Space Wolves attacking Prospero, and that was Space Wolf fans. ;)

[Morovir]

From the first mention of the Thramas Crusade in Savage Weapons, it's clear that it is a full-fledged war.

 

"Two years since the VIII and I Legions both found themselves ordered into the void, feuding over possession of an entire subsector. Neither side gave ground without taking it back elsewhere. Neither side charged without leaving a vulnerable flank open to assault. Neither Legion lost a battle when their progenitors led them to war."

"Two years of void skirmishes, two years of planetary sieges, two years of global invasions and worldwide retreats, orbital assault and shipboard evacuation..."

 

The fact is that there has been very little written about it apart from the clashes between primarchs, giving the impression that it is nothing more than an elaborate game of cat-and-mouse.

[Brother Styphus]

You have chased me for two years, across a hundred battlefields, and why do we meet now? Because I allow it.’ The Lion conceded to that with a slight nod. ‘You hide, like vermin fleeing the coming of dawn.’

 

Guess that's why I didn't see it as a traditional warfare campaign.

[StruManChu]

Yeah, sure, I get that. But two years ago is a long time, and it may have started off as an entirely traditional campaign, at least on the Loyalist side, before it became something more according to Curze's design. I guess my point is that the presence of Titans and Knights isn't completely ridiculous if you look at it from the Imperium's perspective at the planning stage. The Crusade force is going up against a bloodied but brutal Legion and unhinged Magi who have been committing who knows what tech heresy.  Given the outbreak of the heresy, supply lines won't be guaranteed and so you're thinking about how to deploy a force that might be gone for a decent chunk of time. You over estimate what's needed to ensure victory. Therefore, Titans.

 

As I've said, it would be entirely within the character of the Lion to commit his entire resource as a Primarch to chase down Curze with his fleet and just abandon the more ponderous elements of the Crusade force that slow him down. It's clear from the name of the Thramas Crusade that it's a crusade to liberate the Thramas sub-sector, but killing or catching Curze is only part of that task. Sure, the Lion zeroed in on Curze (not, it should be said, the Night Lords Legion, but Curze himself) as if that would be enough. I guarantee this book will tell us why it wasn't.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Night Lords wouldn’t be able to function if all they as a fighting force is turn off the lights and run. It will be good for them to be shown operating as an actual Legion, the way it was good for the Alphas to be shown as a heavily mechanized maneuver force at Paramar. The legions aren’t siloed into their Rites of War, even though that’s the best and most fun way for us to play the game on the table. The Heresy was fought by armies no one would ever take on the table.

 

An Iron Warriors Line company is a hundred tactical marines. All the cool stuff comes from outside the company. None of us are gonna drop 1500 bucks on an army of just a hundred tactical marines, some dreads, and a Centurion. You’d never win a game. As an example, Nerik Dreygur is a Praevian. He commands an entire Grand Battalion. He can’t even take a RoW (iirc).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Marshal Rohr