Primaris Need... (?) - What Do You Think?

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello all, possibly loaded question.

 

This may be better suited towards the Adeptus Astartes forum subsection, but as it is, I did want to at least start the idea.

I would group the following into the things that Primaris "need" in my mind.

 

- Primaris Rhino equivalent

- Primaris Razorback equivalent?

- Primaris Land Raider equivalent - Costly, but how could it be cost effective to field?

- Primaris Spartan equivalent - LR note, the same

 

Individual unit options:

 

- SW's Primaris need a melee kit out option

- Primaris in general need some sort of Assault squad, and it'd be damn deadly if given access to decent kit

- Primaris Assault squad / SkyClaw pack with nothing but Eviscerators? Maybe, might be too CC focused - Ideas?

- Primaris sniper / Scout equivalent maybe?

 

there's plenty more ideas, what do people think thus far?

 

Have at.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

Bit of a response here.

Vehicles:

 

- Yes, we do.

- Maybe different options for the Rhino for streamlining purposes?

- Already have it.

- We need a Primaris Drop Pod.

 

Primaris need more vehicles most of all, but keep in mind (non-transport) legacy vehicles work fine for Primaris lists.

Infantry:

 

- Blood Angels could use some extra options too. Maybe some Primaris Sanguinary Priests or a Redemptor Furioso Dreadnought, as well as some Death Company Primaris.

- I had an idea for Primaris Assault Squads not too long ago; they'd use an Inceptor statline, but with access to Chainswords and Heavy Bolt Pistols. The Sergeant would be able to take a Plasma Pistol and a Power Sword. Considered making a conversion out of it, but with as little funds as I have, I didn't do it.

- I do think Eviscerators need a bit of a spotlight, but mandatory "Primaris Assault Squad must take Eviscerators" sounds wrong to me.

- We already have that. It's called Reivers and Eliminators.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I feel like the thing they need immediately is a rhino type transport at similar cost. The fact that they only have a land raider equivalent is ridiculous.

 

Assault is another lacking area of course but I hope they address that with each codex individually as BA and SW should get a bump in that area a bit more than the regular and DA. I'm sure a common assault unit is inbound but I'm hoping for some specific ones just for us and BA

[NatBrannigan]

I think the range has nearly everything you've asked for already to be honest.

 

As has been said a cheaper transport to replace the Rhino / Razorback.

 

For Assault we have Rievers but they're very lacklustre. Just some better rules there would help. Then maybe a more elite assault unit. I'd say Wulfen are already essentially a Primaris unit. I'd actually be surprised if they didn't get that key word at some point as they were clearly designed with Primaris Marines in mind (came out just before 8th edition).

 

The only thing really missing then would be a long range heavy weapons unit. Hellblasters with Las Talons? A Battle tank? Something like that or again, just give Centurions the Primaris key word since they're big enough. After those gaps are filled (and they will be sooner rather than later) I'd rather they concentrated on a few diverse kits for each chapter. Something for Blood / Dark Angels and a Codex (not just damn Ultramarines!) only unit. Obviously something for Wolves although we do have Wulfen already.

[PeteySödes]

They just need to have stuff that provides more interesting rule interactions. Intercessors are bleh IMO because they are just "better" marines, but as wolves our troops maintain their function just fine. Infiltrators and the vangaurd RP give us rules we didn't have access to thus are the first ones that have really swayed me a bit.

 

The people calling for dedicated assault are not wrong, but i would be less likely to use something just killy in CC because we have wulfen for that. I would want something more specialized that provides interesting tactical options over some beefy punchy squad. I would love a unit in the style of the Victrix Guard or Arjacs bros that maybe gets heroic intervention and wound absorbtion, not killy but a real tarpit. Something as annoying to deal with as 50 flippin conscripts boiled into 5 primaris bodies that fits our army.

[NightHowler]

If we’re just talking about what vanilla primaris need, I think everyone has really good ideas here.

 

But if I’m going to talk about what I think it will take to make primaris into Space Wolves, I think they need customization.

 

As long as they all look like they just rolled off of an assembly line somewhere, cookie-cutter style, all carrying the exact same weapons, with the entire codex astartes tattooed on their foreheads, they’ll never really be Space Wolves IMHO. I feel like they’ll be Ultramarines on loan as something one step above “allies” but one step below “space wolves” until they develop that individuality that makes Space Wolves what they are.

 

Just my two cents worth.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Primaris rhino

Primaris melee units

Primaris terminators (I won't give it up)

 

I feel as though reivers could be "fixed" by simply letting them have access to SS, power weapons, chapter unique gear (frost weapons, flamer pistols, plasma pistol). It would make a powerful and a replacement for vanguard style units.

 

Chapter exclusive troops and elite units. Which are powerful well rounded choices but expensive. SW already have our elite unit which is...wulfen.However BA could use nee Sanguinor Guard. For example

 

Space Wolves: Primaris Grey Slayers, 20 pts without wargear

M7 WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 A2 or 3 Ld7/8 Sv3

Comes equipped with power axe, SS, combi-bolter

-May replace power axe with frost sword/axe or Wolf claw

--pack leader "blah blah" OR thunder hammer

 

So a group of these is 100 pts without wargear, with basic gear they are 145 pts. Nearly double a intercessor, but with a 3++ save access to a good ranged weapon and powefull melee weapons they are sure to be a pushing force for your army.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson

[Karack Blackstone]

Wonderful idea there, Caldersen.

 

I do like the idea of SS's, but the cost and the benefits seem to be a bit out there in a way. Still, for 20 ppm, that's a pretty solid value for what's listed. The problem would be, change out those Combi-Bolters for Boltguns that may be upgraded into individual Combi's and I think you have a solid, not quite normal Troops choice for the SW's that fits. Maybe allow Power Weapons options, say a choice for each model of Sword, Axe, Maul, etc., to allow some weapons variation if needed, or just go with either Axes or Swords all the way.

 

As another unit I was thinking of, Grey Slayers with Combat Shields and the option to replace the CS with a SS for some cost might work out; the problem is said cost. Still, there's some ideas, and a second decent other option might be a more Troops style skirmisher Scout Armor Astartes, non-Primaris unit that might have BP's, Bolt Carbines for the size of Scout models, and either a Combat Knife or Chainsword base, with if need be a CK and the option to go up to a CSword if there's some sort of reward for doing so, say make all CSwords AP -1 for example.

 

Still, the one key idea of this thread I do like is the one of the Wolves need a Primaris unit with more options. Cookie cutter is pretty nearly Vanilla, but the Wolves would take that option and turn it into a very different approach as the situation warranted it.

 

Nice responses, though.

[Triszin]

Primaris rhino

Primaris melee units

Primaris terminators (I won't give it up)

 

I feel as though reivers could be "fixed" by simply letting them have access to SS, power weapons, chapter unique gear (frost weapons, flamer pistols, plasma pistol). It would make a powerful and a replacement for vanguard style units.

 

Chapter exclusive troops and elite units. Which are powerful well rounded choices but expensive. SW already have our elite unit which is...wulfen.However BA could use nee Sanguinor Guard. For example

 

Space Wolves: Primaris Grey Slayers, 20 pts without wargear

M7 WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 A2 or 3 Ld7/8 Sv3

Comes equipped with power axe, SS, combi-bolter

-May replace power axe with frost sword/axe or Wolf claw

--pack leader "blah blah" OR thunder hammer

 

So a group of these is 100 pts without wargear, with basic gear they are 145 pts. Nearly double a intercessor, but with a 3++ save access to a good ranged weapon and powefull melee weapons they are sure to be a pushing force for your army.

this.

 

But also merge grey slayers with the 30k deathsworn*

* by this I mean, give them a specialized grenade.

 

Space Wolves: Primaris Grey Slayers, 20 pts without wargear

M7 WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 A2 or 3 Ld7/8 Sv3

Comes equipped with power axe, SS, combi-bolter

-May replace power axe with frost sword/axe or Wolf claw

--pack leader "blah blah" OR thunder hammer

- You may purchase a "helfrost" grenade, 1 for every 5 models. ( if the model count can go to 15, of the model count is limited to 10 or fewer, then every model may take it)

Edited April 16, 2019 by Triszin

[Karack Blackstone]

Caldersen:

 

https://www.deviantart.com/hammk/art/concept-703462498

 

Also, yes, I think a custom grenade like the "Helfrost" proposed option would truly be interesting. Maybe 1d6 / 2d3 Mortal Wounds, or 1d6 Wounds, at some listed Strength, with 6's causing Mortal Wounds? Dunno.

[Triszin]

I think they initially planned for Gravis to be terminator replacement, but its apparent now they arent and have mnoved away from the idea.

 

I think we will DEF see a "primaris Terminator" armor in the next 3 years

 

 

 

Caldersen:

 

https://www.deviantart.com/hammk/art/concept-703462498

 

Also, yes, I think a custom grenade like the "Helfrost" proposed option would truly be interesting. Maybe 1d6 / 2d3 Mortal Wounds, or 1d6 Wounds, at some listed Strength, with 6's causing Mortal Wounds? Dunno.

 

On a damage roll of a 6, add one mortal wound to the target

especially if they are one off grenades.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Triszin

[Jarl Caldersson]

What do you guys think?

Edited April 17, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

What do you guys think?

Honestly I like it though looking at how GW is handling primaris loadout I suspect they would more likely get the assault bolt rifle or the heavy bolt pistol. On the whole though I like the unit design.

[Jarl Caldersson]

I just used Storm bolters as they are wrist mountable, and for some reason GW doesn't understand the purpose of a holster/sheath. Otherwise I would suspect they would indeed get a assault bolt rifle like reivers.

[Bulwyf]

I also would like the option to take Primaris in Stormwolves

[Triszin]

What do you guys think?

I like them a lot, would there be an option to increase the squad size to 16, with an option pramaris wolf gaurd pack leader?

Edited April 17, 2019 by Triszin

[PeteySödes]

I also would like the option to take Primaris in Stormwolves

 

I think a lot could be solved by allowing primaris in classic vehicles at a 2:1. During my weekly Mastadon drool sessions, hand longingly pressed against the screen, I always find is so frustrating that the thing can hold 30 marines or a bunch of dreads but isnt equipped for high maintenance big bois.

[NightHowler]

 

I also would like the option to take Primaris in Stormwolves

 

 

I think a lot could be solved by allowing primaris in classic vehicles at a 2:1. During my weekly Mastadon drool sessions, hand longingly pressed against the screen, I always find is so frustrating that the thing can hold 30 marines or a bunch of dreads but isnt equipped for high maintenance big bois.

Honestly, this. Wolfy customization options, and the ablility to ride in our transports, even with the same restrictions that terminators face, and I might start to warm to Primaris.

[Karack Blackstone]

TDA rules make sense. They're big, maybe save the 3:1 for TDA Primaris, if that ever, and I hope does, become a thing.

 

As far as the severe and potentially needless transport limitation, what else might make sense?

 

I'd say those 20 point Primaris Slayers would be a wonderful unit, even if I don't quite like Power Axes, but that is likely just outdated information. Perhaps the wording being closer to Long Fangs, "this unit may replace their chainsword with a power sword, power axe, or power maul, or a frost sword, frost axe, or thunder hammer," would be more along the lines of what we're thinking? Maybe what, call it 18 16 points per model, and the leader gets some additional options, maybe favor the option to take heavy bolt pistols at +1 ppm?

 

Just spitballing, but I do love this unit.

 

If anything, I'd make them the SW's Primaris Assault unit, and give the Wolves back Grey Slayers as base Troops, just with the option to upgrade all Combat Shields to Storm Shields at cost each model. Just let the pack keep their BP's, or possibly upgrade to HBP's at the same +1 ppm.

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit: Recalculating points values, 14 for a SM with a SS is 16, since SS's now seem to be +2 ppm. As it is, lemme format this a little better.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Karack Blackstone

[MegaVolt87]

The jump troopers with heavies like autocannon could be further expanded, man portable las talon, multi melta options for some more AT which primaris are lackind. Ditto for dedicated melee units. 

[Jarl Caldersson]

Perhaps the wording being closer to Long Fangs, "this unit may replace their chainsword with a power sword, power axe, or power maul, or a frost sword, frost axe, or thunder hammer," would be more along the lines of what we're thinking? Maybe what, call it 18 16 points per model, and the leader gets some additional options, maybe favor the option to take heavy bolt pistols at +1 ppm?

The wording was off as this was a quick 15 mins edit, we can improve it and make a more final design.

 

 

As for the price, I noticed GW is basing Primaris points off the intercessor which is 18. The Primaris Grey Slayer uses the same stat line, but has a special rule and a extra inch of movement, so 20 (with no wargear) points is a deal. If anything it should be 22-23 ppm without wargear.

 

I didn't want to give them power fists or Thunderhammers as then we are stepping on the Wulfen AoR.

 

As for the storm Bolter I was looking at 2 units Primaris Wolf Priest and Reivers. They both use "heavy pistols". I think the Reiver is more plausible but it would be nice to have that 16" range. So how about a heavy pistol instead of a storm Bolter?

 

Primaris Wolf priest

16", 5, -1, 1

Reiver

12", 4, -1, 1

 

Edit: any ideas for special rules or do you all like "wolves in pursuit".

Edited April 18, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Its decent but I think a rule like no escape from the DE witches would be better. Also more fitting to being surrounded by wolves with no opportunity to slip away.

[Jukkiz]

Dunno why primaris needs drop pod when everyone whimpers how bad they are all the time nowdays?

[PeteySödes]

Dunno why primaris needs drop pod when everyone whimpers how bad they are all the time nowdays?

I think that request almost always comes with an implied rule change. Nobody want more pods in the current form but if even one of the proposed changes from the 4543 topics on the subject came with them, they’d sell.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Okay guys, what do you think about this?

Edit:

From Simon Grant:

It's a nice idea, but they're far

Yeah, 2-wounders with lots of power axe attacks, a 3++ and some tasty pistols and grenades is pretty cheap for 7.too cheap!

So might raise the price to 9.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson