Heed + Sanctuary - Valid?

[Glute]

So I've had some people tell me that you can't have a 2+ inv save because GW stated that inv saves can't be better than 3+. 

 

What is the official ruling on using Heed and Sanctuary together?

 

My view:

1. Sanctuary improves Inv Save by 1 up to 3+ maximum

2. Heed improves dice roll by 1 (1 is now 2, 2 is now 3, etc and doesn't change the Inv Save requirement of 3+ maximum)

 

 

[Panzer]

Uhm yeah that's the go-to combo on a GMNDK for pretty much every Grey Knight player out there lol

[BrotherAetherick]

Some tournaments have ruled against it, but RAW it works.

 

Do note that you have to start on the board to do this so no deepstriking. 

 

There is also the contention that you lose your buffs when you gate. But a slightly relevant FAQ only mentioned redeployment through stratagems removing buffs.

 

Basically it's all a mess and there are arguments for both sides, but RAW it works and there is no official GW answer.

 

Grey knights are bad enough so I don't think anyone will judge you too harshly that they get this one trick, and even a 2++ won't save you against everything (mortal wounds, null zone, death hex, jinx, etc).

[FallenSoldiers]

Some tournaments have ruled against it, but RAW it works.

 

Do note that you have to start on the board to do this so no deepstriking.

 

There is also the contention that you lose your buffs when you gate. But a slightly relevant FAQ only mentioned redeployment through stratagems removing buffs.

 

Basically it's all a mess and there are arguments for both sides, but RAW it works and there is no official GW answer.

 

Grey knights are bad enough so I don't think anyone will judge you too harshly that they get this one trick, and even a 2++ won't save you against everything (mortal wounds, null zone, death hex, jinx, etc).

Relevant to this: if you Gate your GMNDK with Heed and Sanc. you WILL lose heed but not Sanc, effectively wasting those 2CP.

[Glute]

Some tournaments have ruled against it, but RAW it works.

 

Do note that you have to start on the board to do this so no deepstriking. 

 

There is also the contention that you lose your buffs when you gate. But a slightly relevant FAQ only mentioned redeployment through stratagems removing buffs.

 

Basically it's all a mess and there are arguments for both sides, but RAW it works and there is no official GW answer.

 

Grey knights are bad enough so I don't think anyone will judge you too harshly that they get this one trick, and even a 2++ won't save you against everything (mortal wounds, null zone, death hex, jinx, etc).

Which FAQ talks about the issue of redeployment removing buffs?

[BrotherAetherick]

 

Which FAQ talks about the issue of redeployment removing buffs?

 

 

Warhammer rulebook FAQ page 5:

 

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects (for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of an ability)?

 

A: No.

 

Although it specifically mentions using a stratagem to redeploy. As Gate is a psychic power, RAW, this FAQ doesn't count for this but some people interpret the intent to be the same.

[Corvus Fortis]

This FAQ doesn't state that GK units lose their abilities upon gating or shunting neither RAW no RAI.

 

RAW it affects only stratagems. Nothig says about psychic powers or abilities.

 

RAI most stratagems that allows unit to redeploy inteded to be reinforcements, like Tide of Traitors, Fresh Converts or Green Tide. The only stratagem, that comes to mind, that allows redeployment and not a "reinforcement" is Upon the Wings of Fire. 

 

Heed + Sanctuary is more questionable combination, but absolutely works RAW. But 2++ in 8th is nothing like 2++ in 7th. It is good at best on 12 wounds t6 model.

[Captain Coolpants]

Its absolutely still a valid combo! Its written right there. You cannot improve a save beyond 2+,which your not. Yours simply adding to the dice roll.

 

 

And that faq specifically says stratagems. So facts as facts, can gate and keep your abilities.

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

Aaaand additionally to being totally valid, it allows you to bring to 2++ sv only 1 model/turn, since both strat and power can be attempted to use only once each turn (just to highlight that it *is not* any sort of broken combo as some dumb tourney organizers would like to communicate)

Edited April 24, 2019 by Chronos Darkhelmet

[BrotherAetherick]

Officially nerfed in the most recent FAQ. Oh well.

[Matt_149]

Yup what else can we do to make grey knights a bit worse? Oooo let's reduce the range of the aura buffing strategem to 6", brotherhood champions? They are super op let's not let them hit back after dieing with a strategem. Shall we look at the cp costs of the other strategems? Nah we don't want them to be any more crazy in power level.

[Danarc]

And you are not considering that LR and SR do not benefit more of the BETA BOLTER.

[Matt_149]

And even the rhino with 2 stormbolters which has been pretty handy in the last couple of games. Oh well clearly they don't want anyone to play GK.

[Corvus Fortis]

Ok, at least it is not as bad as Reserves nerf. Probably single GMNDK is not worth it anymore - only double with 3++.

 

I haven't seen Finest hour any single time to be used - I have no clue why they nerfed it. Most auras are already 6 inches, so probably to eliminate unwanted interactions with +3" aura WT of Ultramarines.

 

No more bolter discipline for vehicles is a bit sad, LRC suffered the most, but hey, looks like we survived it, unlike Deathwatch.

 

But what is really infuriating is the lack of buffs. Really, they know GK's situation. I still hope, there will be a new book, like CSM get. But they could only rerelease only SM and CSM because they have new datasheets and that's it. Or even if they rerelease GK, they could just change what was in FAQs.

 

Well, I was disappointed after CA, but since then I simply don't care.

[Holier Than Thou]

Yep. I honestly didn’t think it was possible but they have actually made Grey Knights worse. I eagerly await the usual people to tell us to wait for the next FAQ because maybe they’ll fix us there.

[Soder]

Pft..

 

Here’s the link btw. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/warhammer_40000_grey_knights_en-1.pdf

Edited April 29, 2019 by Soder

[Panzer]

Well ... I don't know what to say. I feel for you, GK players. 

[Corvus Fortis]

I honestly didn’t think it was possible but they have actually made Grey Knights worse.

 

 

They still can make Smite once per phase, btw. 

[BrotherAetherick]

 

They still can make Smite once per phase, btw. 

 

 

Don't give them any more ideas lol.

[Waking Dreamer]

I was literally waiting for my Brotherhood champion to come in through the mail this week too. lol

 

GW must have been thinking Brochamp's (T4, W4) with 2++ could seriously upset the meta.

[Captain Coolpants]

When it rains it pours.

We forever remain hopeful, but just get knocked down a few pegs undeservingly everytime GW do anything with the game.

[Danarc]

All quiet on the western front.

I didn't expect anything for GK, but neither another nerf. 

 

Anyway, eventually I sold my GK, I'll buy them again if and when we'll have new models and rules.