Is anyone using basic terminators?

[Relic]

For clearing chaff - a unit of 9 bikes with mark of slaanesh and an additional combi bolter on the champion clocks in a good bit cheaper then the termies with combi bolters+chainaxes. 

 

Not as durable, but more mobile and does the job cheaper. No need to DS in either. 

[Prot]

That’s a good point. I used them at the beginning of 8 th in nearly every Red Corsairs list. I put them away unit beta Bolters. Then Abaddon came out and I forgot about them. They are an excellent unit for escorting Teeth Lord too.

[dice4thedicegod]

Bikes definitely seem to have crunch advantages. I just think terminators are cooler. I want termies to be viable!

[Relic]

I think termies with chainaxe and combi bolter are usable - a small 5 man unit for example DS onto an objective in cover would be difficult to shift for some armies.

 

They may not be setting the world on fire, but most power armour/terminators models aren't to be fair! Competitive lists tend to be hordes screening characters with chaos. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Relic

[BrainFireBob]

What about a big blob of 10 basic terminators? Enough dakka to dent, enough wounds to stick around.

 

Edit: including the Bringers detachment

Edited April 28, 2019 by BrainFireBob

[Bat33.1]

I think termies with chainaxe and combi bolter are usable - a small 5 man unit for example DS onto an objective in cover would be difficult to shift for some armies.

 

They may not be setting the world on fire, but most power armour/terminators models aren't to be fair! Competitive lists tend to be hordes screening characters with chaos. 

 

I think termies with chainaxe and combi bolter are usable - a small 5 man unit for example DS onto an objective in cover would be difficult to shift for some armies.

 

They may not be setting the world on fire, but most power armour/terminators models aren't to be fair! Competitive lists tend to be hordes screening characters with chaos. 

 

I can't comment on there use on the table top but the biggest single issue I have right now after buying the new kit is I can't build a basic squad out of the box. There is a single chain axe in the kit! There's a single power maul, power sword, and power axe then it's power fist, lightning claws, or chainfist. Oh and only a single combi plasma. I had considered a couple of basic squads to drop in but the lack of options is a pain. They've even put the combi weapon options on the opposite side of the weapon compared to FW legion combi weapons so they don't fit either.

 

So it means buying 5 boxes to assemble a single basic 5 man squad. Really GW?

[Panzer]

Yeah as great as the models look, it's the worst box GW has released in years ... and I plan to keep telling them that for a long time to come unless they start selling weapon sprues separately to save that mess.

[Darnok]

But they are so pretty...

[Syrakul]

PJ i would look for old berserker chainaxe arms. Either keep the clunky hands (cut at wrists) or cut where hilt meets hand and transplant in place of terminators maul/sword options

 

Im about to revist 15 terminators (cataphractii/justaerin) and reconfigure to:

5 man 5 combi-bolters 4 chainaxes 1 chainfist

5 man 5 combi-plasma, 4 chainaxes 1 chainfist

5 man combi-melta/chainfist, 2 with lightning claws, PF/Combi-bolter, PAxe/Combi-bolter, khorne/banner

 

One cheap, one plasma death and one as Abaddons unique CC murder team for kicks

[Excessus]

I used some leftover heresy axes & volkites to make my 40k Lernaeans...

[Excessus]

Termies are cool, so I will use them...though it's pretty clear that the termies haven't been sculpted recently. They aren't as "crisp" and detailed as the Shadowspear kit...

[ChazSexington]

Give them -1 to all damage, min 1.

 

Also Chaos Cataphractii. MoT, Weaver-there's your 3++

 

Doesn't exist in that combination. The only ones with access to Cataphractii are the DG, whom are Nurgle. 

 

Edit - Ah, I see what you mean now. As a solution rather than what we have. My bad.

Edited May 28, 2019 by ChazSexington

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I used some leftover heresy axes & volkites to make my 40k Lernaeans...

What do the volkites represent? Combiplasma?

[Excessus]

Nah, twin bolters. Volkite chargers are anti-light-infantry, so it seemed more proper that way.

[Syrakul]

I updated a squad of terminators (cataphractii i run as straight CSM termis) with a mix of old plastic berserker chainaxes (with the original hand) and one or two using FW axes. This axe set is a pain because no hands and I have no more extra terminator left hands. one example hear was a resin power maul chopped off as well.

[Closet Skeleton]

As 'efficient' as those chain axes are they really disappointed me when I took 3 units of terminators to a tournament. 5 terminators with chainaxes are not 5 khorne berzerkers supported by an exalted champion, they struggle to kill even other marine units. The extra -1 ap from a real poweraxe isn't worth 4 points but it is necessary to make an actually good combat unit, the two units I actually bought real weapons like chainfists on the sergeant did stuff while the cheap unit only really worked as a throw-away distraction when I was already in control of the board. Blightlords are worth it at while 16 point per model less terminators are not because the blightlords can take and give out a beating in every phase of the game while non-cult terminators are merely above average at everything.

[Syrakul]

I still feel terminators aren't up to snuff; bolter drill only buffed one issue slightly and the chainaxe change is just a nudge to make them more paletable, but they suffer from high cost/susceptibility to all kinds of chaff and high damage fire (shoot enough chaff at them and they die, shoot anti-tank at them and they die, shoot autocannons,plasma or xenos 2 damage stuff at them and they die)

I had two units drop in with Abaddon. combi-plasmas on one and combi-bolters on the other. Shooting with abaddon/one squad couldnt clear 4 tau drones!? Then the plasma squad still lost the sarge to overheat even with abaddon rerolls, two plasma wounds finished drones and a bunch more failed to his riptide save (after my carefully positioned psykers deathhex failed after reroll) after failed charges I was decimated in opponents turn.

 

Of course not all that was optimal placement, choices, dice etc so Im not totally miffed, but when 600/1500 pts is tied into these units I need them to do work where I need them.

 

It might take a new edition but toughness 5 would go along way to protecting them from both chaff-fire and plasma/antitank angles (S4,5,8,9 affected)

[Panzer]

As 'efficient' as those chain axes are they really disappointed me when I took 3 units of terminators to a tournament. 5 terminators with chainaxes are not 5 khorne berzerkers supported by an exalted champion, they struggle to kill even other marine units. The extra -1 ap from a real poweraxe isn't worth 4 points but it is necessary to make an actually good combat unit, the two units I actually bought real weapons like chainfists on the sergeant did stuff while the cheap unit only really worked as a throw-away distraction when I was already in control of the board. Blightlords are worth it at while 16 point per model less terminators are not because the blightlords can take and give out a beating in every phase of the game while non-cult terminators are merely above average at everything.

 

Well they are still Terminators. You pay for the additional protection and deep strike. Berzerkers are glasscannons where you pay for the additional damage output. Two different units with two different advantages. Expecting one to do the job of the other is bound to disappoint.

[Cheex]

I feel like there would be one easy fix for Terminators: improve their Sv and Toughness characteristics by 1.

 

A 1+ save would still fail on a 1, but it helps mitigate AP values. AP-1 weapons with a high rate of fire seem to be the most cost-effective against them: heavy bolters, chaincannons, chainaxes, that sort of thing. A 1+ save makes those no more effective than a standard bolter.

 

Coupled with T5 (or T6 for Blightlords), they become pretty tough against anti-infantry weapons - as they should be. It does help against plasma since overcharging will only wound them on 3+ rather than 2+, and they'll still get a 4+ save against it, but D2 still makes plasma a threat.

 

It means that anti-tank weapons become the main threat to terminators - again, as they should be.

[Closet Skeleton]

Well they are still Terminators. You pay for the additional protection and deep strike. Berzerkers are glasscannons where you pay for the additional damage output. Two different units with two different advantages. Expecting one to do the job of the other is bound to disappoint.

 

 

Its not that they're terminators, terminators can do damage with real weapons, its just that half assed terminators aren't making the most of being terminators. I didn't bring up Khorne berserkers to say that terminators should be able to hack apart large units, I brought them up as an example of a unit that's role benefits is complemented by chainaxes while stating that terminators role isn't really. I'm sure there's an argument for chain axe and combi-plasma terminators but chain-axe and combi-bolter ones are just bad bikers.

 

What I'm saying is that counter to the 'why doesn't the box let you build the basic load out' complaint the basic load out sucks and isn't worth playing. The best use of those 'efficient' chainaxes is on bullet catchers in mixed squads where the sergeant has either a pair of lightning claws or a chainfist. Especially if you're using Bringers of Despair with the 'reroll hits' aura that grants power and chain fists the help they sorely need.

 

11 Chainaxe attacks aren't really good at anything, on average they struggle to get through a 5 man unit of scouts, or will kill about 4 orks or guardsmen.

[MegaVolt87]

@Syrakul, cheers man that's the kind of pics I need to see as I am looking to do cataphractii chain axe termi's with my IW, I have been magnetizing mine. 

[Syrakul]

@Syrakul, cheers man that's the kind of pics I need to see as I am looking to do cataphractii chain axe termi's with my IW, I have been magnetizing mine.

Thanks! Yea these are all pinned (im a bit pin-happy) both to strengthen weapon joins and make hands/shoulders adjustable/changeable.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Syrakul

[Prot]

Well I still spend time painting my Termie unit when I have a chance but I’m still struggling to use them.

 

After a 6 round tournament I finally decided I would go with 3 Oblits with MOS over a squad of Termies. I know it’s not apples to apples, but there are enough similarities that I felt it was a comparison worth making.

 

At 345 points I feel like that is a tad too much. I prefer my loyalist Centurions over the Oblits. But if we’re talking Termies or Oblits I just felt after all these games that the Oblits pose an immediate threat and are always an excellent candidate for Vets of the long war.

 

The footprint of the squad in older terrain can be a little awkward but they do seem to fit in a tight deepstrike area better that a larger Termie squad. This is a real factor against savvy tournie players such as Astra who will try to block you out.

 

The idea that at worst I’m getting S7 AP1 and that all important D1 can be mitigated. But there’s close combat too. they’re Fists might only be -1 but they aren’t -1 to hit and I’ve taken down some impressive foes with them. It also maximizes hit auras like Abaddon.

 

Since you’re also probably giving them MOS they get pretty good use out of Delightful Agonies. They also match up well with any list that uses Master of Possession since you can heal them and/or enhance their save.

 

The biggest negative aside from cost is the Oblits lose instant loss of effectiveness with 4 lost wounds where you may just be missing a few Comb Bolters.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Ive found axe/combi bolter  in a 10 man blob an effective chaff clearing/harassment unit.  I have been starting them on the table in many games even since my list has other more threatening stuff.

 

With delightful agonies and/or the -1 to hit prayer they can be pretty annoying to deal with.   I've also found them very good at grabbing objectives in ruins.  

 

Some comparisons...

 

A tactical marine/csm is 13 points for a toughness 4 model with 1 wound.  So you get a t4 wound for 13 points.  

A chaos terminator with chainaxe/combi bolter is 29 points.  So you get a t4 wound for 14.5 points but it also can deepstrike, has a 2+ save, and has a 5++ invuln.  Not bad if you ask me.  They might even make excellent backfield objective campers.  

 

Since the terminator is far more vulnerable to 2 dmg shooting there is a strong incentive to mitigate this disadvantage.  Delightful agonies is perfect for this since it cuts down your losses against plasma/disintegrator spam.   Another option is to fill your list with other targets that will attract plasma/disintegrator fire.  A bunch of daemon engines and/or a giant 20 man blob of possessed marines.  

[Closet Skeleton]

A 10 man blob with chainaxes would mitigate some of my complaints but I'd still go with a chainfist on the sergeant.