Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Fall Back fix: move it to the Charge phase

homebrew hack melee fall back charge

  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1
Revlid

Revlid

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts

Movement Phase

Spoiler

 
Charge Phase
Spoiler

 
Other Rules
Spoiler


************
Currently, Fall Back is amazing. If you have a unit in melee, you can order it to Fall Back in your Movement phase. The result is that:

  • Your unit can avoid being attacked in the Fight phase, thereby cutting in half the damage a powerful melee enemy can inflict.
  • Your unit can reposition to cover or safety, and the enemy will need to charge again next turn, eating more Overwatch.
  • The rest of your army can shoot at the enemy unit you Fell Back from, thereby allowing you to eliminate a potential threat left stranded in the open.
  • In exchange, your unit can't shoot (which they couldn't do anyway) and can't charge (which you obviously didn't want to do, or why would you have them Fall Back?).
  • Unless, of course, they can FLY, or are one of the many units (including entire Factions) capable of shooting when they Fall Back anyway, in which case the lack of downside just became another plus.

This version moves Fall Back to the Charge phase - and therefore, after the Shooting phase. It also adds a melee equivalent of Overwatch, called Overrun, performed against units that Fall Back rather than those which Charge. Under this model, the result of Falling Back is that:

  • Your unit will take a much smaller amount of damage than it normally would in the Fight phase, thereby reducing the damage a powerful melee enemy can inflict.
  • Your unit can reposition to cover or safety, and the enemy will need to charge again next turn, eating more Overwatch as a result.
  • That's it.

If Fall Back moves to after the Shooting phase, there's no cartoonish moment where the dust clears and the Khorne Berzerkers blink in confusion to find the lone surviving Guardsman sprinting off into the distance and every other gun in the regiment trained on them. Melee remains a safe haven against non-Overwatch shooting, and Falling Back becomes more of a gamble, because it doesn't completely eliminate casualties from melee. This does make abilities that allow Fall Back-and-Shoot more powerful, by comparison - but in most cases they can be changed into "Fall Back in the Movement/Shooting phase" so that everyone else can shoot. Like they used to be able to.
 
Thoughts?


Edited by Revlid, 29 April 2019 - 06:07 PM.

  • LameBeard likes this

#2
Slasher956

Slasher956

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,732 posts
  • Location:The Kingdom of the East Saxons!
  • Faction: OoOML, Ulthwé

My first though is.... how many strats would have to be changed?

 

2ndly, is the ability to fallback broken?  or is it the amount of rules that allow you to ignore parts of the rule (ie no shooting, no charging etc) & how people make army lists?

 

3rdly, if you do remove/ alter it how will that affect other phases... will increase the power of CC (not the CC units but the CC phase)?

 

4th, how powerful do you think overwatch IS that you want to cut it down?


Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confussed... what side of the fence am I on???

 

happy.png


#3
Revlid

Revlid

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts

My first though is.... how many strats would have to be changed?

 

2ndly, is the ability to fallback broken?  or is it the amount of rules that allow you to ignore parts of the rule (ie no shooting, no charging etc) & how people make army lists?

 

3rdly, if you do remove/ alter it how will that affect other phases... will increase the power of CC (not the CC units but the CC phase)?

 

4th, how powerful do you think overwatch IS that you want to cut it down?

 

 

To answer your first and last questions:

  • Relatively few Stratagems would need changing, and those that do are largely covered by the "Other Rules" section in the OP.
  • Overwatch isn't affected at all by these changes.

 

To answer your middle two questions:

Yes, this is a boost to melee armies – one which is sorely needed, honestly, but mainly aimed at keeping the game engaging for those armies, instead of a desperate race to get enough Orks into close combat for your one turn of melee attacks before they fall back and you get blasted anyway. Fall Back is not, in itself, broken – but the game already heavily favours the Shooting phase, units who ignore its restrictions are ubiquitous, and even in an ideal state it wouldn't be fun.

 

The way I see it, Fall Back is currently an opt out button against melee-focused armies. Orks, Tyranids, Daemons, and so on have to slog across the entire board, make a charge, eat Overwatch... and then a turn later the T'au, Guard, Necrons, etc can just say "nah" and wander off. Why? There's no way to opt out against being shot. The only way to avoid being shot is to charge (which gets you shot, because Overwatch is a thing) and then stay in combat (which you can't, because Fall Back is a thing). If a melee unit charges on turn 2, it eats 1-2 turns of shooting, 1 turn of Overwatch, then the target Falls Back and it eats another turn of shooting. Meanwhile, the charged unit eats 1 turn of combat. This is grossly unsatisfying (not to mention ineffective) for the combat-focused player. 
 
This fix effectively turns Fall Back into a delayed version of the Overwatch/Retreat dilemma from Kill Team: do you stick around to occupy the enemy unit and try to get some kicks in? Or is your unit valuable enough that you want to try to escape, taking fewer hits in the process but doing no damage of your own? 
 
Now, there's nothing now stopping the enemy unit from just charging you again next turn... but that's the same as the current set-up for Fall Back. The only difference is that in this version, you only get to hit the enemy with Overwatch, rather than your whole army blasting it to pieces the moment you're clear. Which is, you know, pretty much how a fighting retreat should work. You take less damage, you can move to a different position, and you get to plink away with Overwatch again. Or you could charge the enemy with something ELSE, and tie it down. Which also makes sense – a dramatic rescue! 
 
Truth be told, Overrun isn't even all that necessary to this version of Fall Back – I just think it's appropriate. It's certainly no more offensive than Overwatch – yes, a unit of Ork Boyz that makes it to combat with 20 models can dish out a ton of attacks... but the number that actually hit is cut to a quarter of what it would otherwise be.


#4
Phubar

Phubar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 207 posts
I like the idea of Overrun attaks. A lot!
  • LameBeard likes this

#5
LameBeard

LameBeard

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 110 posts
  • Location:UK
Overrun is a nice name for something that at least reminds me of the very old days of Warhammer. If you fled from combat the enemy got “free hacks”. I think if you voluntarily withdrew they also got “free hacks”. So I like this idea that there is a little penalty for falling back. Maybe that is the rule to tweak?

One of the nice things about falling back is avoiding the frustration that a unit can ‘hide’ in combat from other shooty units. So if you delay the fall-back move maybe an alternative ‘heritage’ rule we should reinstate is allowing to shoot into combat (with a risk to your own troops - yeah it’s a tough universe out there, guardsman)

#6
Wulf Vengis

Wulf Vengis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 906 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Faction: Space Wolves
I just posted tis to Amicus,

Strategic Withdrawl: Sometimes standing and fighting is a lost cause or a unit may be better suited elsewhere on the battlefield.
At the beginning of the movement phase a unit locked in close combat can declare it is attempting a strategic withdrawl. The unit takes an unmodified leadership test using the highest leadership in that unit. If the test succeeds the unit breaks off from combat and follows the normal rules for Falling Back.

Cut Down Attack: However, withdrawing from close combat is dangerous and enemy combatants may take advantage of this impromptu retreat.
When making a Strategic Withdrawl, before moving any models, the enemy unit/s that were previously locked in combat with the withdrawing unit may attempt a Cut Down attack, roll a d6 and add their movement score. If the total equals or exceeds the withdrawing units movement score the members of the enemy unit attempt to cut down their opponents. Each model within 1 inch of the withdrawing unit gets one close combat attack against the withdrawing unit.
If the withdrawing unit suffers any wounds this way they must take a leadership test to perform any further actions this turn. This leadership test follows the standard rules for penalties based on morale.

Edit:
Strategic Withdrawl: A unit that fails to pass the leadership test for Strategic Withdrawl remainslocked in combat.

Edit:
Cut Down Attack: These attacks are made using their models unmodified WS rolls.
  • LameBeard likes this
The Lone Wolf Saga or The Lone Wolf Saga
XBOX LIVE GAMERTAG: Orlath83

#7
Grimdark_Garage

Grimdark_Garage

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 151 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels

since the start of 8th ive always wanted a mechanic to make falling back more of a negative / more difficult. As OP says, a melee orientated unit spends time getting to attack and is generlaly then a sitting duck.

 

Not owning a melee focused army though, im not sure if this relaly is much of an issue. Ive watched plenty of batreps and combat units do seem to the do the business once they get into combat but they then just get mowed down.

 

Most options put forward in this and other similar topics work against the 8th edition philosphy of streamlining the game.

HOWEVER, i am a huge advocate to moving the fall back action to the charge phase UNLESS a unit has the FLY keyword.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: homebrew, hack, melee, fall back, charge

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users