Big FAQ 2019 - Overwatch & Crimson Fists

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

Hi,

I read on reddit that the new WH40k rulebook's errata states that Overwatch is considered an "as if in the shooting phase" action. Consequently, abilities, warlord traits, psychic powers, etc. apply to it from now on (except stratagems if limited to a phase). 

So...would Crimson Fists have a successful overwatch on 2s in certain scenarios? 

 

1) Chapter tactic +1 to hit

2) Rhino Primaris +1 to hit

3) Phobos warlord trait +1 to hit 

4) Slay the tyrant strat +1 to hit when targeting characters (melee/shooting). 

Example: the opponent declares a charge against one of my units and my warlord. I'd spend a CP on the stratagem first and apply it to the gunline, followed by declaring the warlord will not shoot in order for my other unit to have that +1 to hit , whilst both having the rhino nearby and the requirements for the chapter tactic are met. I then proceed to do the overwatch rolls....

Thanks!

Edited April 30, 2019 by IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS

[H311fi5h]

Overwatch still cannot get modified, only natural 6's hit (unless the rule specifically applies to overwatch like defensive gunners). Also shooting phase strategems don't work as per the same faq.

[Halandaar]

You can't modify Overwatch rolls except in specific cases where the abilities directly state otherwise. Go back to the core rules;

 

 

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

 

You can't modify Overwatch rolls except in specific cases where the abilities directly state otherwise. Go back to the core rules;

 

 

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

 

a 6 is not the same as unmodified roll of 6 (which GW clearly writes when they intend it to be a "natural" roll). 

Edited April 30, 2019 by IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS

[Halandaar]

 

 

You can't modify Overwatch rolls except in specific cases where the abilities directly state otherwise. Go back to the core rules;

 

 

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

 

a 6 is not the same as unmodified roll of 6 (which GW clearly writes when they intend it to be a "natural" roll). 

 

 

"irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers"

Edited April 30, 2019 by Halandaar

[Panzer]

 

 

You can't modify Overwatch rolls except in specific cases where the abilities directly state otherwise. Go back to the core rules;

 

 

Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

 

a 6 is not the same as unmodified roll of 6 (which GW clearly writes when they intend it to be a "natural" roll). 

 

 

"irrespective of the firing model's Ballistic Skill or any modifiers" is basically the long form of "unmodified". 

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

Overwatch still cannot get modified, only natural 6's hit (unless the rule specifically applies to overwatch like defensive gunners). Also shooting phase strategems don't work as per the same faq.

 The rule does not say an unmodified roll of 6. Also, the stratagem I pointed out does not say "use this stratagem in the shooting phase" it just says "use this stratagem at the start of the phase" 

[Halandaar]

Also, the stratagem I pointed out does not say "use this stratagem in the shooting phase" it just says "use this stratagem at the start of the phase" 

 

Okay, but even if we ignore the fact that you cannot modify Overwatch rolls unless an ability or stratagem specifically says you can, this still doesn't work:

 

Example: the opponent declares a charge against one of my units and my warlord. I'd spend a CP on the stratagem first and apply it to the gunline, followed by declaring the warlord will not shoot in order for my other unit to have that +1 to hit , whilst both having the rhino nearby and the requirements for the chapter tactic are met. I then proceed to do the overwatch rolls....

 

As per the wording of the stratagem you've just quoted, you need to use it at the start of the phase, i.e. before your opponent declares any charges. So you put it on your gunline, your opponent can then choose not to charge, and you've wasted a CP. Alternatively, they declare a charge against the Warlord, your buffed unit doesn't get to fire, and then they pile in to your unit with impunity because:

 

 

Q: If a unit piles in or consolidates into a unit it didn’t declare a charge against in the preceding Charge phase, does that unit get to fire Overwatch?

A: No.

 

But this is purely academic, because you can't buff the Overwatch rolls anyway.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Halandaar

[Panzer]

Honest question ... why are you trying so hard to argue against a core rule everybody else has no problems to understand? No modifiers means no modifiers. It's not exactly rocket science and even a bloody beginner who never played warhammer in his life before should be able to understand what no modifiers means. :huh:

Or is it that you don't know what "irrespective" means? If that's the case then just ask and you'll get an explanation 

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

 

Also, the stratagem I pointed out does not say "use this stratagem in the shooting phase" it just says "use this stratagem at the start of the phase" 

 

Okay, but even if we ignore the fact that you cannot modify Overwatch rolls unless an ability or stratagem specifically says you can, this still doesn't work:

 

Example: the opponent declares a charge against one of my units and my warlord. I'd spend a CP on the stratagem first and apply it to the gunline, followed by declaring the warlord will not shoot in order for my other unit to have that +1 to hit , whilst both having the rhino nearby and the requirements for the chapter tactic are met. I then proceed to do the overwatch rolls....

 

As per the wording of the stratagem you've just quoted, you need to use it at the start of the phase, i.e. before your opponent declares any charges. So you put it on your gunline, your opponent can then choose not to charge, and you've wasted a CP. Alternatively, they declare a charge against the Warlord, your buffed unit doesn't get to fire, and then they pile in to your unit with impunity because:

 

 

Q: If a unit piles in or consolidates into a unit it didn’t declare a charge against in the preceding Charge phase, does that unit get to fire Overwatch?

A: No.

 

But this is purely academic, because you can't buff the Overwatch rolls anyway.

 

[Halandaar]

<snip>

 

I'm interested to see you explain how that FAQ answer interacts with anything I said, at all.

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

 

<snip>

 

I'm interested to see you explain how that FAQ answer interacts with anything I said, at all.

 

i pasted the answer to show the basis of my argument. With respect to what you said, there is the possibility that a CP might be wasted, etc., that doesn't stop the unit in question to pull off an overwatch on something other than an unmodified roll of 6. 

[IMMANIS EXTERMINATUS]

Honest question ... why are you trying so hard to argue against a core rule everybody else has no problems to understand? No modifiers means no modifiers. It's not exactly rocket science and even a bloody beginner who never played warhammer in his life before should be able to understand what no modifiers means.

Or is it that you don't know what "irrespective" means? If that's the case then just ask and you'll get an explanation 

 

It's not about understanding the rule. It is about the rule having changed after the FAQ based on the Q&A I pasted above. Plenty of aspects of the game have changed over time, and as surprised as you are that I'm trying to point out that Overwatch might have changed as we know it, I'm just as surprised that you deny that Overwatch could be changed or clarified. 

[Halandaar]

It's not about understanding the rule. 

 

It is exactly about understanding the rule; the simple fact is that the core rules very clearly and specifically state that an Overwatch attack only hit on a 6, and modifiers have no effect on those rolls.

 

All the FAQ "changes" is that an Overwatch attack is made "as if it were the shooting phase", and that's not even really a change at all (the core rules for Overwatch already say it follows the normal rules for shooting). It does not change or overrule the fact that you cannot modify an Overwatch attack.

 

So yes, you can stack as many Warlord Traits and abilities and non-phase-specific stratagems on your unit as you like for a cumulative +4 or even +10 hit bonus if you want, it's just a waste of effort and CP to do so because they have no effect (and again, reiterating the core rules) on an Overwatch attack, which only ever hits on a 6 ​irrespective of any modifiers.

[Panzer]

Nothing about no modifiers being allowed changed though, so yeah it really is about understanding the rule.

[Skorp]

The FAQ is clarifying the rules, it is not redefining the rules.

 

If the rules were being redefined it would be stated such as: "Replace the rule text X with Y".

 

Rather this section of the FAQ you have shared is clarifying how the rules work in relation to a frequently asked question.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Modifiers do not change how many hits you get in overwatch unless they specifically call out that they modify overwatch. You can have all the modifiers you like but you will still only score overwatch hits on a roll of a 6.

 

That is not to say that the modifiers do nothing, just that they do not allow you to hit more often. A modifier can avoid your Plasma from overheating and killing your dudes - it just can't cause that plasma to hit any more often.

 

Curiously Slay the Tyrant does just say at the start of the phase so at the start of an enemy charge phase you could declare it if you want to make them think twice about charging your plasma unit. I doubt if its the best use of a CP but the rules do seem to allow it and if a character then charges your unit you can safely overcharge your plasma with no risk of anyone burning their fingers. Similarly I believe that No Matter The Odds should work in overwatch making you safe from self-immolating with plasma weapons but not increasing your number of hits at all.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Use Tau TGG as an illustrator.