Who do you think deserves a Codex of their own?

[Brother Tyler]

Controversial (and extreme) view: I'd be fine if they consolidated all of the Adeptus Astartes, bar the Grey Knights and Deathwatch, into a single codex (yes, that includes the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves). Where necessary, there would be rules and units to reflect the necessary differences (e.g., Crusader squads for the Black Templars, Death Company for the Blood Angels), as well as a system for customizing Chapters (like the Chapter Traits from 4th edition, but toned down).

 

To me, the Adeptus Astartes should largely be variations on a theme, without a need for highly distinctive rules for different Chapters (whether popular or not). There's plenty of character that a Chapter can be given without a need for snowflake rules.

 

And then I'd revert the Grey Knights and Deathwatch to their original forms - specialist Chapters that deploy as a squad (normal size) or two (significant) as allies to other forces of the IMPERIUM. The same goes for the Adeptus Custodes and Legion of the Damned (yes, I know that the Custodes aren't Adeptus Astartes, but they're close enough). I'm not going to go into details on what I think this codex should be (think Agents of the Imperium) since it's not purely about the Adeptus Astartes).

 

So I guess my short answer is that no one needs a codex of their own.

 

Like I said, that's a controversial view.

[Panzer]

If you'd read the last 2 pages or so .. it's not that controversial. ;)

[Claws and Effect]

I'm, personally, mostly just annoyed that the 3 Chapters who have their own Codex have a slew of unique Strategems and half a dozen relics, while the 6 that got crammed into a single Codex (who have just as much history as the other 3) get 1 unique strategem and 1 relic apiece.

 

Flipping through my wife's Blood Angels Codex I see that they get most of the useful Strategems found in the vanilla Codex plus a dozen or so unique ones that are all pretty good.

 

Playing anything out of the vanilla Codex really limits your options compared to BA, DA or Wolves.

 

It's really like GW collectively decided which Chapters were their favorites and the rest get tossed a bone now and then.

[Panzer]

I'm, personally, mostly just annoyed that the 3 Chapters who have their own Codex have a slew of unique Strategems and half a dozen relics, while the 6 that got crammed into a single Codex (who have just as much history as the other 3) get 1 unique strategem and 1 relic apiece.

 

Flipping through my wife's Blood Angels Codex I see that they get most of the useful Strategems found in the vanilla Codex plus a dozen or so unique ones that are all pretty good.

 

Playing anything out of the vanilla Codex really limits your options compared to BA, DA or Wolves.

 

It's really like GW collectively decided which Chapters were their favorites and the rest get tossed a bone now and then.

 

Yeah the Stratagems is what makes it really worthwhile to play Blood Angels currently. Most used units are the same as other chapters can use anyway (I see less and less Deathcompany or Sanguinary Guard these days). Only 1 Stratagem, 1 relic and 1 warlord trait per subfaction in a codex is way too few to give them proper representation imo and there's no reason why it should be this way.

[The Unseen]

Tbf, the strats in BA are rather tame compared to a lot of other recent books, it's just that the vanilla ones are SO bland and bad that having them right next to decent ones with some flavor makes the vanilla ones look even worse.

 

Well, that and the fact that rather than having 6 very mediocre psychic powers, we have 2 very good ones, 2 situationally good ones, and 2 absolutely horrid ones, which feels much better than blandness.

 

When your best use of stratagems is "cause d3 mortal wounds" or a reroll, it isn't exactly hard to raise that bar.

 

And the chapters in the vanilla dex absolutely deserve more unique strats and relics.

Be pretty easy to come up with 3 of each for sure, minimum.

[MARK0SIAN]

If you look at the Heresy (and I agree they do it brilliantly) then rolling all the chapters into one codex seems great. However there is a precedent for it in 40k with the Black Templars. They were a separate codex and were rolled into the main one.

 

Now if you ask people who had the opportunity to experience both a separate codex for them and the current version, it’d be interesting to see how many think the current arrangement is better. I don’t mean better as in ‘I used to have a codex and now I don’t’ because obviously most people will not think that’s better. But do they think the army plays better or has more character now than before, in other words was anything lost or gained in the transition.

 

If the majority think that something was lost then that would seem to suggest that the one codex for all might not be the best way forward.

 

On a personal note, I really don’t see the difference in having one codex and then a supplement for specific chapters and having separate codexes. The separate supplement is still an extra publication, it still means your rules won’t all be in one place.

[Panzer]

If you look at the Heresy (and I agree they do it brilliantly) then rolling all the chapters into one codex seems great. However there is a precedent for it in 40k with the Black Templars. They were a separate codex and were rolled into the main one.

 

Now if you ask people who had the opportunity to experience both a separate codex for them and the current version, it’d be interesting to see how many think the current arrangement is better. I don’t mean better as in ‘I used to have a codex and now I don’t’ because obviously most people will not think that’s better. But do they think the army plays better or has more character now than before, in other words was anything lost or gained in the transition.

 

The problem is that while GW did the first step of rolling a chapter back into the main codex, they completely forgot to do the next step which is releasing a book fleshing out said chapter. So it's not really a fair comparison. ^^

[Captain Idaho]

Besides, from the previous Codex BT to what's in Codex Space Marines, they only lost the vows anyway, with the Chapter Trait swapped.

 

It was mostly a status by having a Codex compared to now.

 

That's not to say I don't agree that BT should get a bunch if Strategums and some special rules to help them, but it could easily be done with 2 pages of rules.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

If you look at the Heresy (and I agree they do it brilliantly) then rolling all the chapters into one codex seems great. However there is a precedent for it in 40k with the Black Templars. They were a separate codex and were rolled into the main one.

 

Now if you ask people who had the opportunity to experience both a separate codex for them and the current version, it’d be interesting to see how many think the current arrangement is better. I don’t mean better as in ‘I used to have a codex and now I don’t’ because obviously most people will not think that’s better. But do they think the army plays better or has more character now than before, in other words was anything lost or gained in the transition.

The problem is that while GW did the first step of rolling a chapter back into the main codex, they completely forgot to do the next step which is releasing a book fleshing out said chapter. So it's not really a fair comparison. ^^

But that’s kind of what I’m saying at the end: if, when you roll them into one codex, you’ve then got to bring out a second book to flesh them out, what’s the point? You may as well give them their own codex. It’s he same number of books. Edited May 7, 2019 by MARK0SIAN

[MajorNese]

 

 

If you look at the Heresy (and I agree they do it brilliantly) then rolling all the chapters into one codex seems great. However there is a precedent for it in 40k with the Black Templars. They were a separate codex and were rolled into the main one.

 

Now if you ask people who had the opportunity to experience both a separate codex for them and the current version, it’d be interesting to see how many think the current arrangement is better. I don’t mean better as in ‘I used to have a codex and now I don’t’ because obviously most people will not think that’s better. But do they think the army plays better or has more character now than before, in other words was anything lost or gained in the transition.

The problem is that while GW did the first step of rolling a chapter back into the main codex, they completely forgot to do the next step which is releasing a book fleshing out said chapter. So it's not really a fair comparison. ^^

But that’s kind of what I’m saying at the end: if, when you roll them into one codex, you’ve then got to bring out a second book to flesh them out, what’s the point? You may as well give them their own codex. It’s he same number of books.

To flesh out the rules, all it takes is a few pages. To roll out an entire codex, it takes ~150 pages, with way more than just the rules. If they don't have the time to do a few pages, you can do the math about the entire codex. And until that codex is ready and a release window allocated, you'd still be limited to Index - we would never hear the end of those complaints...

 

Similarly, last edition we had supplements. None of those have been updated and re-released for 8th edition, so there are several more factions that got rolled back into their comparably non-descript version of the codex. Still those have codex rules level instead of index, so that's a comparably acceptable status until GW decides to grace us with an index. There are so many chapters out there, including successors with radically different doctrine to their parent chapters, that the chances of an individual chapter getting their share of index attention are rather low.

Edited May 7, 2019 by MajorNese

[Jarl Caldersson]

Controversial (and extreme) view: I'd be fine if they consolidated all of the Adeptus Astartes, bar the Grey Knights and Deathwatch, into a single codex (yes, that includes the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves). Where necessary, there would be rules and units to reflect the necessary differences (e.g., Crusader squads for the Black Templars, Death Company for the Blood Angels), as well as a system for customizing Chapters (like the Chapter Traits from 4th edition, but toned down).To me, the Adeptus Astartes should largely be variations on a theme, without a need for highly distinctive rules for different Chapters (whether popular or not). There's plenty of character that a Chapter can be given without a need for snowflake rules.And then I'd revert the Grey Knights and Deathwatch to their original forms - specialist Chapters that deploy as a squad (normal size) or two (significant) as allies to other forces of the IMPERIUM. The same goes for the Adeptus Custodes and Legion of the Damned (yes, I know that the Custodes aren't Adeptus Astartes, but they're close enough). I'm not going to go into details on what I think this codex should be (think Agents of the Imperium) since it's not purely about the Adeptus Astartes).So I guess my short answer is that no one needs a codex of their own.Like I said, that's a controversial view. ;)

I'd be fine with a core SM codex and minidex's for each chapter with their characters and special units.

[RandyB]

Besides, from the previous Codex BT to what's in Codex Space Marines, they only lost the vows anyway, with the Chapter Trait swapped.

 

It was mostly a status by having a Codex compared to now.

 

That's not to say I don't agree that BT should get a bunch if Strategums and some special rules to help them, but it could easily be done with 2 pages of rules.

 

I like the BT. I want the BT to be as distinct on the table as they have been in the past.

 

This can be achieved with an Index Astartes article on the scale of the one done for the CF in White Dwarf this year. Strategums, special rules, even add a unique or variant datasheet or two that can be represented on the table by existing product. I'd like to see a wider range of Astartes codexes, but practically speaking White Dwarf Index Astartes articles is the best we can expect.

[Schlitzaf]

Besides, from the previous Codex BT to what's in Codex Space Marines, they only lost the vows anyway, with the Chapter Trait swapped.

 

It was mostly a status by having a Codex compared to now.

 

That's not to say I don't agree that BT should get a bunch if Strategums and some special rules to help them, but it could easily be done with 2 pages of rules.

As I said Idaho that not true between C:Armageddon and C:Templars we lost the following Unique Units:

Neophyte Ancients

Crusader Bike Squads

 

Lost but have count as:

Durandal Dreadnought

Templar Variant Assault Squads

 

That is 4 unique units lost. One I call core (Biker Crusader). And the other almost core (Our variant Assault squad). Notably both units could take power weapons instead of special.

[Marshal Arthur]

I run company champions and normal ancients, but I don't play primaris, and never will. If SM are eventually replaced by primaris then I wont' be playing SM anymore. To that end, I'd prefer that old marines stick around, as they are still my favorite faction.

 

I can see the value of having a single data sheet for champions that you can give all the various weapon upgrades to, but that'd take a pretty hefty re-write to get working. If we do wind up reducing the number of marine books, then I'm fine with one SM codex with no special characters or units in it at all, and generic army things, then each chapter gets its own index that adds special characters and special units. That can't work in 8th edition though. Too much of the material is based around their keyword system and so on. They'd have to re-write a fourth of the mechanics to change it.

 

For example, if they were to get rid of company champions, they'd have to immediately re-write the Vigilus Sword Brothers detachment for BT, meaning if they dont' want that book to be even more useless than it already is they have to go through and work on all that stuff again. I don't suspect sweeping changes, so eh. Until 9th, BT codex or bust.

I'd at least like to see the company and chapter champion merged into a single unit, as well as the company and chapter ancient. I also don't want to see Primaris replace every old marine unit but feel like some of those single model elite choices are rarely used and not really that important to the marine line. To be honest I would love it if they introduced an app like the age of sigmar app so they could add in new specialist detachments and update old ones without requiring new publications. That alone would fix a lot of their problems. But back on the topic of the codex I would love to see a single marine codex with trimmed down unit entires and supplements for each major chapter.

[Captain Idaho]

I've never heard of a Durandal Dreadnought.

 

As for BT bikes? What did they have that made them different as I'm pretty sure the difference could be covered in a single line of text (add option for power weapon etc). Same goes for Assault squads.

 

If BT players want a bit of support they need to think bigger! Let's make them truly unique.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Othniel's Blade]

I've never heard of a Durandal Dreadnought.

 

It was a WD France datasheet, 2 ccw with Storm Bolter on one hand and Meltas on the other. At least if I'm translating properly from the French.

 

Perhaps one of my elder brethren can confirm if it was actually in a Codex, though.

[Captain Idaho]

No it wasn't. So I don't think it much counts ;)

[Schlitzaf]

I've never heard of a Durandal Dreadnought.

 

As for BT bikes? What did they have that made them different as I'm pretty sure the difference could be covered in a single line of text (add option for power weapon etc). Same goes for Assault squads.

 

If BT players want a bit of support they need to think bigger! Let's make them truly unique.

They could take Scout Bikers originally

[Raktra]

 

Controversial (and extreme) view: I'd be fine if they consolidated all of the Adeptus Astartes, bar the Grey Knights and Deathwatch, into a single codex (yes, that includes the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves). Where necessary, there would be rules and units to reflect the necessary differences (e.g., Crusader squads for the Black Templars, Death Company for the Blood Angels), as well as a system for customizing Chapters (like the Chapter Traits from 4th edition, but toned down).To me, the Adeptus Astartes should largely be variations on a theme, without a need for highly distinctive rules for different Chapters (whether popular or not). There's plenty of character that a Chapter can be given without a need for snowflake rules.And then I'd revert the Grey Knights and Deathwatch to their original forms - specialist Chapters that deploy as a squad (normal size) or two (significant) as allies to other forces of the IMPERIUM. The same goes for the Adeptus Custodes and Legion of the Damned (yes, I know that the Custodes aren't Adeptus Astartes, but they're close enough). I'm not going to go into details on what I think this codex should be (think Agents of the Imperium) since it's not purely about the Adeptus Astartes).So I guess my short answer is that no one needs a codex of their own.Like I said, that's a controversial view.

I'd be fine with a core SM codex and minidex's for each chapter with their characters and special units.

 

That's how I got brought into 40k and honestly, I kinda miss it in an odd way. Maybe that's nostalgia, but I felt like they had a ton of charm to them.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'd be fine with a mini-dex for each chapter they wanted to do one for, as long as they all actually got a decent bounty of fluff in them, rather than the pittance that was the supplements of 3rd Edition.

 

It would cool if they would eliminate the majority of the fluff from the main rules Dex as well (such as the text about the Codex Astartes), except the stuff that speaks to all Marines - no need to extol any Chapter's virtues and foibles in the main rules, save them for the supplements (such as talking about the Legion's reactions to the Codexes in more detail here).

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Out of curiosity what would we gain by switching to one main codex? I mean having all the rules in one place would be nice, but would we need to buy a new book whenever anything gets updated? Would we have the same amount of fluff (Its why I started wolves so to me this is a big point), would the chapter tactics get consolidated?

[Jarl Caldersson]

Out of curiosity what would we gain by switching to one main codex? I mean having all the rules in one place would be nice, but would we need to buy a new book whenever anything gets updated? Would we have the same amount of fluff (Its why I started wolves so to me this is a big point), would the chapter tactics get consolidated?

The main codex imo would be just rules and generic SM history. So much smaller than the current one. The chapter specific ones would contain lore, chapter tactics, stratagems, and unit specific entries. This way a Sally player doesn't have to drag UM information with him but only his Sally stuff. For a more diverse chapter likes SW's it would need up being the same size as the current book then.

 

The updates would be handled how they current do it.

[Dracos]

I like this Jarl ... a lot. A main Astartes Codex that includes old and nuMarines. They could keep the mix but also develops a Primaris only Supplemental Codex also. :)

[RolandTHTG]

I think a big Codex Astartes, with the base rules for every generic Space Marine unit, the generic fluff (Making of a marine, significant battles in 40k history, codex organization and markings), a base set of stratagems/relics/chapter tactics, and a bunch of sample paint schemes would be a good book. With all the primaris included, it would probably be the size of the current one, but no special characters. 
Then you come out quickly with specialty books aka Index Astartes, around a theme that gives a focus on groups of chapters. The book then has special characters and units for those chapters, additional relics & stratagems, and alternative chapter tactics. It's fluff focuses on the history of those chapters, how they diverge in organization, and alternative paint schemes and markings. 

I.e. everyone can work form the base book, but you can grab the specialty books if you want the specific units and abilties. 

 

Codex Astartes

Index: The Unforgiven (all DA based rules and units)

Index: Blood of the Angel (All BA based, inc. Flesh Tearers and such)

Index: Sons of Dorn (Imperial and Crimson Fists, Black Templars, etc)

Index: Pride of Ultramar (Ultramarines, known closely connected successors, ect)

Index: Tip of the spear (Raven Guard and White Scars, including successors)

Index: Artificers of Marines (Salamanders and Iron Hands, etc)

Index: Space Wolves? (This is actually the only one that I could see as a free standing codex with all rules included, with maybe a chapter tactic in the main codex to use for primaris decedents)

Index: Lost sons (For chapters that have diverged from the above too far to be grouped easily, and a way to bring in Forge World chapters. Relictors, Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, Carchodons, Emperor's Spears, Storm Wardens, etc) 

Index: New Breed (IF they want to highlight primaris chapters)

Edited May 8, 2019 by RolandTHTG

[MARK0SIAN]

But in these instances, a lot of players who previously only had to buy one book now have to buy two. Aside from the additional cost, 8th edition is already silly enough in terms of the amount of books the info for some armies is spread over without adding more.

 

Marines are the starter force for most players and GW won’t make it harder for them by requiring people to buy two books in addition to the main rulebook.