Citadel Paints being promoted in Japan beyond Warhammer

[N1SB]

I debated whether or not to post this news here, but decided it's newsworthy as it's horizontally related to Space Marine Heroes and something that Brother Kierdale, one of B&C's Main Man in Japan, told us about.

Source: https://www.goodsmile.info/en/product/8253/PLAMAX+MF+36+minimum+factory+Nene+Makeup+Edition.html

According to that site: A booklet (Japanese) with tips for painting with Games Workshop's acrylic Citadel Paints is included with the plastic model kit. Citadel Paints are being promoted in Japan. At the time of this writing, we are unable to confirm if the aforementioned booklet with feature Duncan saying "2 thin coats" in Japanese. We also hope for the love of the Omnissiah they remember to tell people to basecoat the models 1st, for crying out loud.

Here's the context. These miniatures models are by famed (and mostly adult-only) manga artist 山下しゅんや (written in Japanese because the cuss filter actually redacted his name, click the link for his ComicVine entry his English name), who also did character art or re-designs for franchises like Marvel, DC, Tekken and others, specifically their Bishoujo Statues:

"Behold! My invincible and perfectly comfortable sword stance!"

As for how Citadel Paints got featured in relation to these Japanese models, it turns out that the distributor/promoter of the figures being painted, known as "Military Qtys" (pronounced "Cuties", look, it creeps me out as much as it does you, I'm just reporting the facts here), are being promoted by Max Factory, the same company that is bringing us the Space Marine Heroes series (including the recently revealed Space Marine Heroes Plague Marines).

This past week we've had the revelation of Space Marine Heroes Series 3, the Bandai-Games Workshop partnership as well as this, showing Games Workshop's committed entry into the Japanese Hobby market. What does this have to do with us?

It is thanks to Brother Kierdale's reporting in Japan that I 1st realised the Japanese painting technique is quite different than the one we know and take for granted. Non-Warhammer painters see Citadel Paints as good alternative acrylic paints. From his on-site report at a famous hobby centre (please see his full briefing and Like his post):

At the bottom of the paint rack, you see that sign with the Citadel logo? The tagline at the top, with the light aquatic 1st character, basically reads "usable with WATER" like it's some unique feature. UPDATE - I've just been informed by a Warhammer Store friend that Vallejo paints did an advertising campaign in the same area that Brother Kierdale covered, Akihabara, that also focused on this aspect, as a major selling point.

I have observed the same phenomenon here in Hong Kong, as we're a microcosm of East Meets West, where mostly people learned how to model and paint from Bandai and Tamiya. About once a month, I happen to be in our popular local Warhammer Store when some random uncle comes in and asks about Citadel Paints. They are familiar with painting, but mainly Japanese methods and paints. The reaction to Citadel Paints is always the same, a sort of "Eureka!" moment when he gets very excited about water-soluble paint that doesn't involve weird alcohol based concoctions that require specific thinners and don't smell that bad. To us, that's normal, but to those that don't have it, it is like The Holy Grail.

With those observations in mind, I for one am really interested in what new ideas our Japanese Battle Brothers will bring. They will have the same tools as us, but their own ideas, experiences, vision. This can be a huge opportunity for us to learn from one another.

To parallel, for those here that have been around as far back as 40k 2nd edition and further back, do you remember when Mike McVey left Games Workshop to help found Privateer Press/Warmachine, then he started showing us how he used Japan's Tamiya "Smoke" ink? That was a breakthrough moment for a lot of us and Smoke remains an integral part of my own personal painting arsenal.

Now, that situation is reversed. Combine that with the new possibilities created by another painting innovation from Games Workshop, Contrast paints. What's old shall be made anew...with more new coming our way.

(There's also the business angle...which I won't tangent off into right now, but feel free to discuss that if you like. I'll just tie this to something I mentioned before in the Bandai news...that if you want to get Japanese business, Japanese customers only ask that you also "get them", their ideas, their way of doing things...but they are also totally willing to meet you halfway, to learn from you, to take your ideas as well. This is very much evidence of that.)

Edited May 15, 2019 by N1SB

[MithrilForge]

Awesome!  some new Slaneesh models...  ....

 

Mithril

[Aramis K]

Really interesting. Sounds like a market for the paints, and a way of using the paints to promote the minis.

 

I've been wondering about the 'Citadel COLOUR' branding on the new contrast paints, which does seem like a clearer brand identity for the range. I guess we'll see that applied to the whole range soon.

[Mendi Warrior]

Awesome!  some new Slaneesh models...  ....

 

Mithril

 

They are no Slaanesh models but new Sisters of Battle (without power armour that is)

[MegaVolt87]

Now we will see a new IG regiment based on the JDF in the gate anime. We already have the Tau to hook them in haha.

[N1SB]

I've edited the post with a pic that highlights how water-soluble paints are actually a product feature in Japan.  All credit goes to Brother Kierdale for foreshadowing something like this last year, when he posted a pic of a Citadel paint rack.

 

Now we will see a new IG regiment based on the JDF in the gate anime. We already have the Tau to hook them in haha.

 

Here in Hong Kong, one battle brother here converted a Tau army of Gundam/Zeon, using only GW parts.  It's this hilarious reverse-proxy war we've been having, like instead of using Star Wars AT-ST, a Warhammer manager here actually kitbashed an Onager on top of Armiger legs (counts as a Helverin).  Another is converting AoS Stormcast to look like that hot new Fantasy anime, Goblin Slayer.  And now there's a huge conversion culture in our meta thanks to their example.

 

Now, it's not just about homages, but the type of person who would think of things like this come up with many other ideas we probably wouldn't consider, with paints.

 

 

+++++

 

 

As I wrote this, I just remembered something here in Hong Kong you'll absolutely consider crazy, talking to someone who learned to paint from Tamiya/Bandai.  Again, NOTHING wrong with them, after all my secret sauce is Tamiya Smoke, but just to show we're worlds apart.  My Hammer Bro, a guy I've referred to as Tourney Tony here, and I were introducing someone new to Warhammer.

 

This new guy, from Hong Kong, presented himself as some sort of artist, pointed out to us he had this secret trick with gold paint.

 

He would buy a Tamiya metallic gold paint marker or something (I know brothers here on B&C more enlightened than me actually know about them) and he would "milk" that marker onto a palette dish, to get gold paint that you could then apply with brushes!  That's how you can get metallic gold details for minis, outside of a spray can!

 

I remember Tourney Tony and I just gave each other a look, like we're clearly missing something here.  Why would you go through that much trouble instead of just buying a pot/dropper of metallic gold paint?  Like do the Japanese now use actual gold leaf on their Gundams or something (there's an actual golden Gundam called 100-Shiki that uses a different plastic in its kit as it's all golden)?  Is there some new paint recipe that makes gold look more galvanised, I knew even at that time there were fancy paints where you can't even touch the figure because the oil on your fingers will spoil the lustre.  Have we fallen so far behind technology-wise outside of Japan like with mobile phones?

 

It turns out...in Japan, metallic gold paint pots are not common, due to some pollution problem where their metallic gold paint was toxic, so they banned the selling of pots of metallic colours, or something.  The compromise was sprays and markers because they didn't cause as much pollution, to my very limited understanding.  I don't know the details, but there was some legacy legal issue that roadblocked this.

 

Imagine a Japanese Hobbyist who, throughout his life, had to "milk" these golden pens.  He needed that to freehand paint the tiny Zeon symbol on his Zaku or something, it's a difficult and time-consuming method he's mastered over the decades.  Now plop a pot of Citadel Burnished Gold in front of him...then the other 4 or 5 shades of Gold, then Bronze, etc.  And he could mix that with just tap water instead of the weird brand-specific solvents that Japanese paint suppliers like to sell.

 

I'm considering what someone like him could teach the rest of us a little something.

Edited May 15, 2019 by N1SB

[AgentOrange]

Citadel metallics are also crap compared to something like Gaianotes, so I'm not sure how much more a pot of Burnished Gold will appeal to someone used to the much finer pigment and greater lustre they're getting decanting whatever paint pen they're using.

 

I am always surprised by how much tunnel vision hobbyists have. Maybe it's because I have a background in Gundam, AFV modelling, and action figure customization in addition to tabletop minis but it's the same for those hobbies, weirdly few people cross-training in techniques. Why would you not apply AFV techniques like oil filtering to a Rhino or a Gundam? Scale models are scale models whether they're from the grim darkness of the far future or the Universal Century but people seem to mostly keep to their one little box of tools. Show someone OSL or NMM on a Gundam and they're mystified.

Edited May 15, 2019 by AgentOrange

[Marshal Rohr]

Citadel metallics are also crap compared to something like Gaianotes, so I'm not sure how much more a pot of Burnished Gold will appeal to someone used to the much finer pigment and greater lustre they're getting decanting whatever paint pen they're using.

 

I am always surprised by how much tunnel vision hobbyists have. Maybe it's because I have a background in Gundam, AFV modelling, and action figure customization in addition to tabletop minis but it's the same for those hobbies, weirdly few people cross-training in techniques. Why would you not apply AFV techniques like oil filtering to a Rhino or a Gundam? Scale models are scale models whether they're from the grim darkness of the far future or the Universal Century but people seem to mostly keep to their one little box of tools. Show someone OSL or NMM on a Gundam and they're mystified.

 

Probably because they are different regions of the world engaging in niche hobbies with unique hobby techniques promulgated in small communities that are published and discussed most frequently in different languages. If warhammer was German or French language based, it would never be as popular as it is in America. (Not because there is anything wrong with those languages, there are just 330 million of us and we speak all speak English). 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Bung]

 

Citadel metallics are also crap compared to something like Gaianotes, so I'm not sure how much more a pot of Burnished Gold will appeal to someone used to the much finer pigment and greater lustre they're getting decanting whatever paint pen they're using.

 

I am always surprised by how much tunnel vision hobbyists have. Maybe it's because I have a background in Gundam, AFV modelling, and action figure customization in addition to tabletop minis but it's the same for those hobbies, weirdly few people cross-training in techniques. Why would you not apply AFV techniques like oil filtering to a Rhino or a Gundam? Scale models are scale models whether they're from the grim darkness of the far future or the Universal Century but people seem to mostly keep to their one little box of tools. Show someone OSL or NMM on a Gundam and they're mystified.

 

Probably because they are different regions of the world engaging in niche hobbies with unique hobby techniques promulgated in small communities that are published and discussed most frequently in different languages. If warhammer was German or French language based, it would never be as popular as it is in America. (Not because there is anything wrong with those languages, there are just 330 million of us and we speak all speak English). 

 

 

 

You forgett that Forgeworld started using AFV scale modelling technics in their books for use on tabletop miniatures and i havent seen them used much before that (we are talking about second and third edition times here).

 

Oil paints and artist colors have been used in scale modelling for decades, cause there havent been any alternatives and there are still people painting miniatures who never heard of that stuff.

[Marshal Rohr]

I didn't forget that all. It depend on the person in question and what they want their models to look like. 

[Evil Eye]

This is actually pretty cool, and as someone who finds a lot of Japanese model-making really fascinating (especially mecha models and the home made resin "garage kit" character models) I'd be interested in seeing this book translated. I have a huge amount of Citadel paint and I'd be intrigued to see what methods they use with them and how they differ from "regular" miniature painting.

[AgentOrange]

 

Citadel metallics are also crap compared to something like Gaianotes, so I'm not sure how much more a pot of Burnished Gold will appeal to someone used to the much finer pigment and greater lustre they're getting decanting whatever paint pen they're using.

 

I am always surprised by how much tunnel vision hobbyists have. Maybe it's because I have a background in Gundam, AFV modelling, and action figure customization in addition to tabletop minis but it's the same for those hobbies, weirdly few people cross-training in techniques. Why would you not apply AFV techniques like oil filtering to a Rhino or a Gundam? Scale models are scale models whether they're from the grim darkness of the far future or the Universal Century but people seem to mostly keep to their one little box of tools. Show someone OSL or NMM on a Gundam and they're mystified.

 

Probably because they are different regions of the world engaging in niche hobbies with unique hobby techniques promulgated in small communities that are published and discussed most frequently in different languages. If warhammer was German or French language based, it would never be as popular as it is in America. (Not because there is anything wrong with those languages, there are just 330 million of us and we speak all speak English). 

 

 

Not really, from my experience.  I've got no experience with the Japanese Gunpla community.  But the Western Gunpla community is English-dominated.  It's more niche than Warhammer going by the reddit sub counts, but 70k people isn't super obscure.  The 40k sub by contrast has about 180k on it.  It's tunnel vision, like I said.  Gunpla modellers will follow untranslated Japanese build guides though they can't understand the language, but they won't for the most part take a look at tabletop mini techniques.  The aesthetic is fairly different for the models themselves, but most novice Gunpla modellers really could use some reading up on our basing techniques for their diorama attempts.  Even when it comes to tabletop minis, I think the regional and language barriers aren't quite what you're making them out to be.  When I got into the hobby as a teenager in the late 90s/early 00s, Rackham was really threatening GW with Confrontation and the French style was all the rage.  Take a look at the Golden Demon entries from around then and it's super obvious.  

[Marshal Rohr]

You’re proving my point. Niche communities with very little interaction. It’s not surprising the techniques are siloed. Western anime fans are a niche within a niche, so westerners who build gundam models not looking at space marine painting guides is pretty understandstanable. Edited May 15, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[PeteySödes]

You’re proving my point. Niche communities with very little interaction. It’s not surprising the techniques are siloed. Western anime fans are a niche within a niche, so westerners who build gundam models not looking at space marine painting guides is pretty understandstanable.

 

I love stuff like this where we can tear those silos down and learn more what other people are doing in other communities. I remember when i discovered, or rather took actually looked at, what the scale modeling community does for vehicles and it improved my techniques by factors.

[Bung]

You’re proving my point. Niche communities with very little interaction. It’s not surprising the techniques are siloed. Western anime fans are a niche within a niche, so westerners who build gundam models not looking at space marine painting guides is pretty understandstanable.

 

Sometimes its more that those people never heard of other communities. I have met gamers in a GW store who never heard of scale modelling so they didnt even realize that there is other stuff in the miniature world. 

[BitsHammer]

 

You’re proving my point. Niche communities with very little interaction. It’s not surprising the techniques are siloed. Western anime fans are a niche within a niche, so westerners who build gundam models not looking at space marine painting guides is pretty understandstanable.

 

Sometimes its more that those people never heard of other communities. I have met gamers in a GW store who never heard of scale modelling so they didnt even realize that there is other stuff in the miniature world. 

 

I've seen something similar. I saw one comment online that called FW's use of weathering pigments "drybrushing" for example.

[Duymon]

This totally makes sense. 

 

Max Factory, the company working with GW on all those SM heroes sets, has been releasing a ton of 1/20 scale waifu figs (the the one in the first pic) under their minimum factory line and Citadel paints are very good acrylic brushables so they go together well.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Duymon

[Syrakul]

Living in Japan I remember the first time seeing the inexpensive tamiya paint lines sold in all the Labi and bic camera shops, to be horrified when I tried to paint with them. Since then I've learned about airbrushes, thinners etc. but besides some weathering pigments or air primers I wouldn't bother.

The Internet is often thought of as the goto for all infomation nowadays but with the cross-cultural differences, and as a niche  hobby its difficult to find a real guide to these things without buying an actual magazine guide.

 

Also to people like me that already find painting a chore, experimenting with new stuff can feel like more of a waste of time and money, and the fear of cocking up your models is my thought on why people play it safe.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Syrakul

[N1SB]

I, too, tried to paint my 1st Space Marine with Tamiya paints at the time...and also cocked messed them up.

 

It had such an impact on me that, 25+ years later, I tried to come to terms with that BY DOING IT AGAIN.

 

So I was making a joke about Duncan saying "2 thin coats" in Japan, but seriously, after seeing your point about the Internet being the goto yet there are these blocks across cultures, GW should have plans to make Japanese videos on Niconico Douga or something.  That's actually a very valid and actionable point.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

The reason the acrylic water-soluble thing is being put at the forefront is because Japan still uses a lot of enamel and lacquer paints for things like airbrushing Gundam models. Tamiya and Mr. Hobby are two famous examples. They are mainly non-acrylic brands even though they do have acrylic ranges, just like we consider Citadel or Vallejo acrylic brands.