What if GW had won the case against Chapterhouse Studios?

[grailkeeper]

Around about 2010 GW brought a case against chapterhouse studios for infringing on their IP by making similar models. The case was ultimately settled in 2014. In the years since then we have seen a number of changes in GW- some related to the case, some not.

 

GW started to change large parts of the lore, in particular names, to make it easier to defend as being their IP. Imperial Guard became Astra Militarum, Dark Eldar became Drukhari and so on. We also saw the storyline progress significantly with the fall of Cadia, the rise of the Primaris Marine and the return of the Primarchs. Fantasy saw even more of an overhaul with the introduction of Age of Sigmar. GW as an organisation changed as well, becoming far more customer friendly. We see a lot more material online in various forms of social media, rumour engines, painting guides and other things. Previously it had more of a love hate relationship with its customers. It is a much better organisation now in the opinion of many fans.

 

What would GW be like now, and what would the setting be like do you think if GW had overwhelming won its case? I mean to the point where GW did not need to take any steps to protect its IP? Do you think the changes making it a friendlier company affect things? Would the setting still have advanced and would we still see Primaris marines and the overhaul of that range?

 

 

[Panzer]

Dark Eldar are are still Dark Eldar etc.
Most factions didn't get their names changed, they rather got additional, more fancy, names.

About what would be different today? We'd still have units in the fluff without models for it but other than that I don't think too much would be different. They won but it would still have been a good idea to make sure to win future cases as well.

Neither the progress of the story, death of WHFB nor the more customer friendly approach has anything to do with Chapterhouse though.
WHFB was selling terribly outside of some few countries (it was more popular than 40k in germany) and the change in tone how they approach us is mostly thanks to Kirby not being CEO anymore.
For the story progress in 40k there are likely multiple reasons. Too many for me to even start speculating.

Edited May 21, 2019 by sfPanzer

[MARK0SIAN]

I think you’d probably see a lot less third party stuff from shapeways/Etsy etc as they’d feel bold enough to send out more speculative cease and desists. They’d have the court precedent to back them up which would probably see more third parties reluctant to call GWs bluff.

 

Other than the name changes though I don’t think you’d see much of a difference to be honest, certainly not with the friendly nature and moving of the storyline.

 

I actually think you’d see more of a difference if they’d overwhelmingly lost the case.

Edited May 21, 2019 by MARK0SIAN

[PeteySödes]

 

About what would be different today? We'd still have units in the fluff without models for it but other than that I don't think too much would be different. 

 

Do you mean units in the rules without models? As an avid converter thats one of the biggest chafes with that whole situation. 

 

It's a great question though and a really interesting thought experiment.

[Panzer]

 

About what would be different today? We'd still have units in the fluff without models for it but other than that I don't think too much would be different.

 

Do you mean units in the rules without models? As an avid converter thats one of the biggest chafes with that whole situation. 

 

It's a great question though and a really interesting thought experiment.

 

 

Both actually. GW actively avoids mentioning units in stories they don't sell models for (noteable exception being the Overlord Primaris flyer being mentioned in the Dark Imperium novel and I guess that's either a slip up that went unnoticed until too late or a last minute decision to not give it a model for now) and they also don't write rules for models they don't sell anymore.

[NTaW]

I think the name changes are more telling of a multinational company dealing with a variety of IP and copyright laws than the Chapterhouse lawsuit, though I am aware that from the lawsuit came a list of 'safe' words for 3rd party retailers to use in the USA at least.

 

I do agree with the thought we'd see more rules for unit that don't necessarily have official models though. We may also have less mono-pose characters too but on the other side of things we may not have the comprehensive content that kits are currently being produced with. I can well remember how hard it used to be to find combi-weapons or to get a set of four weapons for a Devastator squad with my BA years ago.

Edited May 21, 2019 by NTaW

[Panzer]

on the other side of things we may not have the comprehensive content that kits are currently being produced with. I can well remember how hard it used to be to find combi-weapons or to get a set of four weapons for a Devastator squad with my BA years ago.

Well that didn't necessarily become better unfortunately. Just take a look at the new CSM Terminators. 

[Arkhanist]

It was a bit of a pyrrhic victory for chapterhouse, as GW did win on derivatives of existing models, such as female versions of male characters. The net result of the case that can be directly attributed is that rules without GW models were removed from codexes, and even models that they did that are no longer sold have been relegated to Index status and will likely be retired entirely at some point. The other is that generic shapes, such as that of the space marine shoulder pad, are not protected. Without that ruling, I think we'd see a lot less 3rd party compatible parts; though certainly a number of shapeways designs were challenged by GW and have since disappeared - even though say a winged blood drop might ultimately be legitimate, if it's too close to the Blood Angels symbol then it's not worth the cost of the fight.

 

GW also effectively gave up on trying to protect 'Space Marine' as a generic trademark after the EFF got involved in the 'Spots the Space Marine' book incident in 2013 also. Between that and chapterhouse, GW switched to the new 'adjective nounverb' pattern we see with new units, as well as the wholesale renaming of entire factions in AoS and 40k from general terms to more trademarkable ones: Orruks, Astra Miliwhat etc, so we still see the 'compatible with common 28mm figures' etc rather than Chapterhouse's using of direct army and unit names. Presumably also helps when guiding new players on the Google, as you're not going to end up on a 3rd party site if you're searching for drukhari.

 

In terms of mining nostalgia with reviving old factions and becoming much more community involved, I think that's much more about the change in CEO and turning around the falling sales figures - which, lets be honest, they have quite successfully.

[Biscuittzz]

We'd still have Grand Master Vorth Mordrak and his ghost terminators. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We might still have Vect .

[MegaVolt87]

I think everything would have changed regardless, just the no rules for no models seems to be the difference. Still bitter on what they did to fantasy. I can live with primaris, I just wish the fluff was better for their transition into 40k. 

[Arkhanist]

Yeah, Vect is almost certainly a casualty of the chapterhouse ruling, along with all the other special characters without current models that got axed. Plus we end up with post-codex units only getting rules once the model is released, such as with shadowspear, necessitating a whole new printed codex ala C:CSM 2.0 and the likely C:SM 2.0 to merge in the new Primaris units once the new Repulsors are out. Imagine such variants had been in the codex and could have been converted up while people waited.

 

Certainly the models have become less (major) conversion friendly too, both with the complexity and monopose models, but it's harder to say if that's down to chapterhouse specifically, or because CAD and casting improvements have made models like Abaddon and the Primarchs feasible to mass produce in plastic.

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah, the newer plastics are not very easily converted, but I can't fault the better detail as a result. I am converting up a new oblit to a DP, the way I am cutting this thing up, makes me forget I am working with plastic instead of a metal miniature. 

[Stoic Raptor]

The irony of it was the effort they made to protect the "IP" that was entirely based upon prior usage.  Before Rick Priestly was even born, terms such as "Space Marine" and "Eldar" were part of sci-fi and fantasy literature.  GW borrowed so heavily from Herbert, Heinlein, Tolkien, and so many others, and didn't even bother to file off the serial numbers.

 

All that's really changed is that now they've added unnecessary diphthongs and more pig-Latin names, but honestly I'm OK with that. 

[Lexington]

I’m really not sure how much of GW’s change of late can be directly attributed to the Chapterhouse suit. 2009 - 2016 (ish) was an era of huge highs and lows for GW that eventually changed it into a much more professionalized, streamlined, modern company. The clear frustration and unexpected results of the Chapterhouse suit were a component of that, but I imagine most of the changes would have happened anyway, as part of the larger reorganization of the company towards being a frictionless profit machine.

[Red_Shift]

Some of the new names have grown on me. Duardin and Astra Militarum particularly. I think the chapterhouse saga brought some underlying tensions to the surface and ended up changing gw to how they are today so ultimately it's a good thing. I was never that big a fan of codex entries without models in either case.

 

I don't get how storehouse prevents gw releasing Vect. He has a legacy model after all.

[Ishagu]

I like the new names, generally. Astra Militarum is better than the Imperial Guard imo

[grailkeeper]

 

I actually think you’d see more of a difference if they’d overwhelmingly lost the case.

 

 

What do you think would happen then?

[NTaW]

What do you think would happen then?

An open market for 3rd party bits that could be directly advertised as compatible with GW products, though maybe only in the USA at first or ever depending on how other courts see the precedent. Kromlech (among others) seem to have flawlessly worked around that anyway with almost their entire line.

Edited May 22, 2019 by NTaW

[Bryan Blaire]

Neither party in that case truly won or lost - it was more about establishing exactly what the lines really were that GW can actually claim and uphold in the U.S.

 

If GW had won every argument made, then the Black Templars might still be a separate Codex.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

 

I actually think you’d see more of a difference if they’d overwhelmingly lost the case.

 

What do you think would happen then?

Basically what NTaW said but I also think you’d see radical renaming and redesigns of the models to make them watertight in terms of copyright. All marine shoulder guards would now be shaped like an Aquila for example or all kits would become like the easy build stuff where adding a different shoulder pad from a third party becomes a lot of work because the current one is attached to the arm already. Basically the modelling side of it would be toned down and made as difficult to kitbash with third party sources as possible.

 

As it is now, GW haven’t really lost anything by allowing third party sites to make things like shoulders as you’ve still got to buy the basic model from GW and add the shoulders so it’s no net loss for GW so they came out of it quite well.

[Marshal Rohr]

If GW had won we’d still have Kasrkin and Krieg Grenadiers instead of Scions. We’d still have Inquisition. All the good names will now be replaced with Astra this and Aeldari Xenoteers and other horrifically awkward names.

[Shinespider]

If GW had won we’d still have Kasrkin and Krieg Grenadiers instead of Scions. We’d still have Inquisition. All the good names will now be replaced with Astra this and Aeldari Xenoteers and other horrifically awkward names.

 

I'm curious what makes you think any of this is true. 

 

In your first example, those are both regiment-specific. When GW decided to make a codex for this unit, they were going to have to give it a regiment-neutral name. At most you can say that name would have been "Stormtroopers," but even that is a stretch imo - they would have changed it anyway to avoid the Star Wars reference.

 

I can't even begin to imagine how the lack of attention paid to Inq has anything to do with the case.

 

Your last bit is certainly possible - but frankly, I suspect that would have moved to sure themselves up even if they hadn't lost. 

 

Overall, I think people are much too quick to ascribe literally everything that has happened in the past decade to one cause. There are plenty of creative and business forces within GW that aren't copyright-related.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Shinespider

[Biscuittzz]

I like the new names, generally. Astra Militarum is better than the Imperial Guard imo

 

Of all the almost-trolling you do around here, this has to be a ban worthy offence.

[Panzer]

Well I do like them too. They are at least million times better than the AoS Duardin and Orruks...