BSB Speculation

[Commander Dawnstar]

(what are all the relics? I haven't actually seen anything on them yet)

 

Blade of Admonition: Blessed Blade upgrade. Strength +2/-3/3.

Brazier of Eternal Flame: Brazier of Holy Fire upgrade. Enemy psychic tests within 18" are at -2.

Wrath of the Emperor: Bolt Pistol upgrade. 18" Range, Pistol 4, Strength 5/-2/2.

Litanies of Faith: Once per turn while the bearer is on the battlefield you may reroll the result of a Miracle die.

Mantle of Ophelia: 3++ save.

Triptych of the Macharian Crusade: 5+ FNP.

Casket of Penance: Valorous Heart only. Enemies within 1" of the bearer are at -1 Toughness.

Book of Saint Lucius: +3" to the range of aura abilities.

The Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela: 2+ armour save and unmodfied wound rolls of 1-3 against the bearer always fail.

Martyrs' Vengeance: Martyred Lady only. Inferno Pistol upgrade. 12" Range, Pistol 1, Strength 8/-4/D6. Roll 2d6 for damage and discard one.

Annunciation of the Creed: Ebon Chalice only. Condemner Boltgun upgrade. 24" Range, Rapid Fire 1, Strength 5/-2/D3. May freely target Characters and deals 3 damage to psykers.

Quicksilver Veil: Argent Shroud only. Attacks against the bearer are at -1 to hit.

Beneficence: Bloody Rose only. Chainsword upgrade. Strength +1/-2/2. Bearer may make 3 additional attacks with this weapon.

Light of Saint Agnaetha: Sacred Rose only. Brazier of Holy Fire upgrade. After unleashing the flames of your Brazier you may discard a Miracle die to allow it to be used again during the battle.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Remind me, can you stack aura extensions? Things like The Book along with a Rod of Office (or whatever it was called) for a total of 6" added to an aura?

[Atrus]

Yes you can. In fact that exact example was given in one of the rules showcase.

 

As for those relics. Dang. I'm going to have a hard time deciding what to do with my girls for everything now. Jeesh. So much niceness.

[taikishi]

Problem with the Rod of Office is that you must equip your Canoness with a bolt gun and power sword to take a Rod of Office. No pistols, chainsword, or blessed blade (or index options if you're using those).

[ValourousHeart]

Problem with the Rod of Office is that you must equip your Canoness with a bolt gun and power sword to take a Rod of Office. No pistols, chainsword, or blessed blade (or index options if you're using those).

 

The Canoness model that comes in the box set comes with the Rod of Office, power sword, and plasma pistol.

 

If you are correct, then that model is illegal?

How certain are you that you are correct?

[ERJAK]

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

Edited November 21, 2019 by ERJAK

[ValourousHeart]

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

 

You can substitute any dice you are about to roll for dice from your pool.  So if like in your example you have 4 damage dice you are about to roll, you can substitute 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ValourousHeart

[ERJAK]

 

 

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

You can substitute any dice you are about to roll for dice from your pool. So if like in your example you have 4 damage dice you are about to roll, you can substitute 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them.

This is how I read it also.

 

However, their contention is that because each shot is technically performed as a seperate roll (as per the core rules) when the rule states 'before you make A dice roll you may choose to use one or more dice from the dice pool instead. For each individual dice that is being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may substitute one miracle dice' it can only be referring to a single 'attack', save, etc.

Problem with the Rod of Office is that you must equip your Canoness with a bolt gun and power sword to take a Rod of Office. No pistols, chainsword, or blessed blade (or index options if you're using those).

Isn't this like that weird thing space marines have where you would equip it with BP powersword, give it a rod of office, and then replace the bolt pistol and powersword with other wargear?

[Ficinus]

I'm really disappointed that the cool condemnor boltgun is trapped behind a specific order. Well, I guess I don't have to worry about being tempted by it.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

 

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

You can substitute any dice you are about to roll for dice from your pool. So if like in your example you have 4 damage dice you are about to roll, you can substitute 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them.

This is how I read it also.

 

However, their contention is that because each shot is technically performed as a seperate roll (as per the core rules) when the rule states 'before you make A dice roll you may choose to use one or more dice from the dice pool instead. For each individual dice that is being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may substitute one miracle dice' it can only be referring to a single 'attack', save, etc.

Problem with the Rod of Office is that you must equip your Canoness with a bolt gun and power sword to take a Rod of Office. No pistols, chainsword, or blessed blade (or index options if you're using those).

Isn't this like that weird thing space marines have where you would equip it with BP powersword, give it a rod of office, and then replace the bolt pistol and powersword with other wargear?

 

Your belief and what Valorous said is how I read it as well.

Edited November 21, 2019 by CaptainMarsh

[Ficinus]

I wonder when they'll drop the FAQ: a few weeks after the box set drops or not until February?

[ERJAK]

I wonder when they'll drop the FAQ: a few weeks after the box set drops or not until February?

Hopefully 2 weeks, between schrodinger's dominions and miracle dice being a bit unclear due to GW never defining what a 'roll' is, there's some important stuff in here.

 

Until then i'll be 100% playing it the stronger of the two ways.

[Montford]

There's a kamekaze stratgem for Immolators. 

 

In fact there are a number of very useful stratagems. I'm glad the miracle dice will help me to focus CPs on them rather that rerolls, although no doubt I may need to do that occasionally.

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

You can substitute any dice you are about to roll for dice from your pool. So if like in your example you have 4 damage dice you are about to roll, you can substitute 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them.

This is how I read it also.

 

However, their contention is that because each shot is technically performed as a seperate roll (as per the core rules) when the rule states 'before you make A dice roll you may choose to use one or more dice from the dice pool instead. For each individual dice that is being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may substitute one miracle dice' it can only be referring to a single 'attack', save, etc. 

 

Redit comes up with some really stupid rules interpretations.  It is almost like they are trying to confuse the issue.  The only reason why you would ever be asked to roll those dice separately is if you were firing it at a unit of multi-wound models.  However that isn't how wounding works.

 

You roll all damage dice, then your opponent picks the order in which they apply that damage.  This generally ends up with your opponent taking 1 less casualty than they would have taken had you picked the order the damage was applied.  Because they apply the 6 damage to the guy with 1 wound left, instead of applying the 1 damage to that guy and applying the 6 damage to a full health guy.

 

*EDIT* Oops I said Redit when you said the argument was on Dakka.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ValourousHeart

[Ficinus]

Isn't this the issue with speed rolling? Each attack is meant to be a separate roll before doing the next one, but for convenience we roll them all at once.

[CaptainMarsh]

If it is read the way Reddit wants to read it, then the new Faith and Fury stratagem is beyond awful. For 2 CP, you get to spend the Miracle Dice you spent on the Hit roll for the Wound Roll. It doesn't say "...the Miracle Die" nor does it say 'one of the Miracle Dice" or even, 'a/an Miracle Die'. It implies you use plural in the to-hit portion and you can therefore use plural in the to-wound section.
 

Again, there are obvious wording issues because this is a GW book, but in the Miracle Dice section it says that when you use the dice it is for a model or unit. If it was singular, it would just say model. It says you may use multiple miracle dice to replace dice that would be rolled. It doesn't say a singular dice, with the exception of a charge roll. 

[Ficinus]

It can be singular and be used for a unit if it is used for one roll that applies to a whole unit (advance, charge, morale) and the charge roll uses 2D6, so it could use multiple dice for one roll (admittedly, that is the only example where more than one die would make sense).

 

On the die/dice wording distinction, in the section on gaining miracle dice the text says that you "gain one miracle dice at the beginning of the phase," which implies to me that they do not use the singular "die." This usage (of "dice" as a singular noun) continues throughout that section of the rules.

 

All that said, I'm not familiar with the wording of the Faith and Fury strat.

 

I agree that one should be able to use multiple miracle dice for a unit's attacks, but I'm not 100% sure that the rules currently allow it.

[CaptainMarsh]

That makes sense. I'll let the die comment...die.

Having said that, the more I read the rules(Miracle Dice and AoF, various Stratagems, Warlord Traits), the more I come to the conclusion that you can use multiple dice in the scenarios presented. 

Could they FAQ it? Sure. I can even see why someone would think otherwise. But the more I read, the more it seems central to the entire mechanic of the Sisters that they use these dice en masse and then replenish them. I think that is the RAI, mostly clearly RAW, and is how I intend to play them.

[ValourousHeart]

Isn't this the issue with speed rolling? Each attack is meant to be a separate roll before doing the next one, but for convenience we roll them all at once.

 

Speed rolling has to do with rolling multiple weapons at once.  Like I'm shooting with my Bike Squadron, these white dice are for the bolters, the red dice are for the plasma and combi-plasma, and the black dice are for the heavy bolter.

 

Speed rolling is not rolling the 12 shots for a twin-assault cannon at once instead of one at a time.

 

*EDIT* - Just went back to re-read "Fast Dice" from the BRB.  Fast Dice is also when rolling for when rolling for a unit with multiple models.  So not using fast dice would mean that you roll for each gun of each member of the unit one at a time.  But the rules are clear that you always roll all of the dice for a single weapon at once.  So marine 1 has a bolt pistol, roll 1 dice, marine 2 has a storm bolter, roll 4 dice, etc.  Opponent rolls his eyes, a couple of swear words roll out of his mouth, and then the judge rolls out the red card for slow play.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ValourousHeart

[ERJAK]

 

 

Isn't this the issue with speed rolling? Each attack is meant to be a separate roll before doing the next one, but for convenience we roll them all at once.

Speed rolling has to do with rolling multiple weapons at once. Like I'm shooting with my Bike Squadron, these white dice are for the bolters, the red dice are for the plasma and combi-plasma, and the black dice are for the heavy bolter.

 

Speed rolling is not rolling the 12 shots for a twin-assault cannon at once instead of one at a time.

You're right that that is 'Speed rolling' a colloquial term. BUT there is an official game term: Fast Rolling, that has explicit rules in the rule book.

 

The issue with Fast rolling is that very few people have actually read that section so they don't realize that meeting the conditions of fast rolling (same BS, S, AP, Damage across all attacks) allows you to roll all attacks together until AT LEAST the allocation step.

 

Which, even under the absolute strictest RAW interpretation possible, would allow you to at least replace all hit and wound rolls of attacks that qualify for fast dice.

Edited November 21, 2019 by ERJAK

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

Isn't this the issue with speed rolling? Each attack is meant to be a separate roll before doing the next one, but for convenience we roll them all at once.

Speed rolling has to do with rolling multiple weapons at once. Like I'm shooting with my Bike Squadron, these white dice are for the bolters, the red dice are for the plasma and combi-plasma, and the black dice are for the heavy bolter.

 

Speed rolling is not rolling the 12 shots for a twin-assault cannon at once instead of one at a time.

You're right that that is 'Speed rolling' a colloquial term. BUT there is an official game term: Fast Rolling, that has explicit rules in the rule book.

 

The issue with Fast rolling is that very few people have actually read that section so they don't realize that meeting the conditions of fast rolling (same BS, S, AP, Damage across all attacks) allows you to roll all attacks together until AT LEAST the allocation step.

 

Which, even under the absolute strictest RAW interpretation possible, would allow you to at least replace all hit and wound rolls of attacks that qualify for fast dice.

 

Fair enough, the rules for fast dice allow for rolling the plasma pistol with the plasma gun, and the bolt pistol with the boltgun, as long as the BS is the same.  However when you turn the page to under resolving attacks - inflict damage, there is no requirement or even suggestion that variable damage for an attack that hits multiple times have to be rolled individually.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

 

So there's a debate on dakka about how miracle dice work.

 

Is it: Exorcists rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed saves, use a 6,6,4,5 to do 21 damage

 

Or is it: Exorcist rolls 3d3 shots for 6, hits 5 times, wounds 4 times, 4 failed save, Use a 6 for damage and then roll 3 1s for 9 damage. Your 6, 4, and 5 remain in the pool.

 

The second assumes that the 'or more' section of the miracle dice paragraph only applies to charges and anything that would use multiple dice in a single 'roll'(i.e. 2d6 damage on a single shot weapon)

You can substitute any dice you are about to roll for dice from your pool. So if like in your example you have 4 damage dice you are about to roll, you can substitute 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them.

This is how I read it also.

 

However, their contention is that because each shot is technically performed as a seperate roll (as per the core rules) when the rule states 'before you make A dice roll you may choose to use one or more dice from the dice pool instead. For each individual dice that is being rolled as part of that dice roll, you may substitute one miracle dice' it can only be referring to a single 'attack', save, etc.

Problem with the Rod of Office is that you must equip your Canoness with a bolt gun and power sword to take a Rod of Office. No pistols, chainsword, or blessed blade (or index options if you're using those).

Isn't this like that weird thing space marines have where you would equip it with BP powersword, give it a rod of office, and then replace the bolt pistol and powersword with other wargear?

Your belief and what Valorous said is how I read it as well.

The opposite is accurate. It's the same logic behind how Tau markerlights work. You can benefit from effects as you manage to hit, but not if you consider them together as one big chunk. In 40k attacks are resolved one at a time. This is explained in a variety of places. In many cases it's more beneficial to do it this way and avoid using fast rolling, and we can get to those scenarios if you need, but as far as Sisters are concerned a damage roll is one dice roll. There is no need for an FAQ - this is very clear in the rules.

 

The attack sequence in the core rules is based on attacks being made one at a time. This is why rules that trigger "when resolving an attack" can and do apply to all

 

Since miracle dice replace a single roll in the attack sequence, and attacks are resolved one at a time, then I can't really see how you would be able to replace multiple damage dice. Or multiple hit and wound dice for that matter.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Lemondish

[Slasher956]

 

The opposite is accurate. It's the same logic behind how Tau markerlights work. You can benefit from effects as you manage to hit, but not if you consider them together as one big chunk. In 40k attacks are resolved one at a time. This is explained in a variety of places. In many cases it's more beneficial to do it this way and avoid using fast rolling, and we can get to those scenarios if you need, but as far as Sisters are concerned a damage roll is one dice roll. There is no need for an FAQ - this is very clear in the rules.

 

 

...pg 179 in the rule book -shooting phase

 

1. chose unit

2. choose target

3. choose range weapon

pg 181

4. resolve attacks

   

 

Attacks can be made one at a time, or, in some cases, you can roll for multiple attacks together. The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time:

 

So... the quoted section can be read as you only make attacks 1 at a time,  or you can make them all together... it then goes on to tell you that each time you attack this is what you do enabling you to use the sequence no matter how many times you attack with at a time.

 

 

So YES I do agree that it looks to be a max of 1 dice at a time that can be changed with what I have seen /read.....However I wouldnt argue if people want to do multiples.... partly because the rule book is not tightly enough written to allow fine line distinctions that some of the codex rules require.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

The opposite is accurate. It's the same logic behind how Tau markerlights work. You can benefit from effects as you manage to hit, but not if you consider them together as one big chunk. In 40k attacks are resolved one at a time. This is explained in a variety of places. In many cases it's more beneficial to do it this way and avoid using fast rolling, and we can get to those scenarios if you need, but as far as Sisters are concerned a damage roll is one dice roll. There is no need for an FAQ - this is very clear in the rules.

 

...pg 179 in the rule book -shooting phase

 

1. chose unit

2. choose target

3. choose range weapon

pg 181

4. resolve attacks

Attacks can be made one at a time, or, in some cases, you can roll for multiple attacks together. The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time:

So... the quoted section can be read as you only make attacks 1 at a time, or you can make them all together... it then goes on to tell you that each time you attack this is what you do enabling you to use the sequence no matter how many times you attack with at a time.

 

 

So YES I do agree that it looks to be a max of 1 dice at a time that can be changed with what I have seen /read.....However I wouldnt argue if people want to do multiples.... partly because the rule book is not tightly enough written to allow fine line distinctions that some of the codex rules require.

From the FAQ for codex space marines, among others:

 

"The attack sequence in the core rules is based on attacks being made one at a time."

 

Let's also add the rest of that section, eh? The one you left out.

 

"If this is the

case, make all of the hit

rolls at the same time, then

all of the wound rolls. Your

opponent can then allocate

the wounds one at a time,

making the saving throws

and suffering damage

each time as appropriate."

 

Nowhere does it say you can use fast rolling for damage and saves.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Lemondish

[Slasher956]

 

 

 

Err.... I was agreeing with you!

 

I just said I wouldnt argue if people wanted to play it differently because there are enough wholes in GWs rules :p