Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

True Deepstrike Denial due to Shadowspear

Deepstrike Tactics Shenanigans Shadowspear Primaris Vanguard Forge World

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1
Gederas

Gederas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,672 posts
  • Location:Pawtucket, Rhode Island

(apologies if this should be in Tactica, but I felt that this would be more relevant in the general Adeptus Astartes section of the board because it's only about Marines)

 

So, this came to me while I was in the shower this morning (I know, shower thoughts are best thoughts laugh.png), but I realized that Shadowspear gives Space Marine players the ability to deny the ENTIRE BOARD to enemy deep-striking. And it only involves three data-sheets.

Those being:
Primaris Captain in Phobos Armour
Primaris Infiltrators
Relic Land Raider Proteus (equipped Explorator Augury Web)

Each unit has an ability that stops enemy deepstriking within 12" of it.

 

You could take a patrol with just those, splitting the Infiltrators into two squads, and if you set them up in a straight line with no overlaps (which as you'll see is difficult) means that just between three (technically 4 if you combat-squad) you've got a 24"x120" area of no deepstriking due the wording of the abilities.

And that's only 654 points to deny a MASSIVE area of the board to your opponent. Add more of those units to the front and back of the 'line' and the area denial gets even larger.

 

Obviously, not getting any overlap would only work on Apocalypse boards, but even with overlap, it makes a massive zone of board control just by those units being there.

 

So if you're in a meta where people like to deep strike a lot of units....


Edited by Gederas, 26 May 2019 - 02:56 PM.

  • Warhead01 and Zephaniah Adriyen like this

#2
Prot

Prot

    ++ EQUES AEDITUUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 13,822 posts

Gederas... you're a bit late! This has been the number one draw of that box for marine players for a while. And while it has uses, it also has one glaring weakness... it doesn't do much else but deny, and hold an objective. (with a fairly contentious point price too).

 

Don't get me wrong... I've very happy you showered! (This isn't the first time since the Shadowspear box came out, is it? ;) )

 

Seriously though I think you bring up a good point for anyone who isn't really using this tactic. The problem is of course they stay outside the opponent's deployment and in practice I find you still have to be a little conservative with them because while they are Primaris, they can get chewed up fairly quickly and then you've given up some killpoints early, and lost your board control.


  • Gederas and sfPanzer like this

Click to see....
gallery_2760_14273_30255.jpg
Instagram: @Prot40k


#3
Gederas

Gederas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,672 posts
  • Location:Pawtucket, Rhode Island

Gederas... you're a bit late! This has been the number one draw of that box for marine players for a while. And while it has uses, it also has one glaring weakness... it doesn't do much else but deny, and hold an objective. (with a fairly contentious point price too).

 

Don't get me wrong... I've very happy you showered! (This isn't the first time since the Shadowspear box came out, is it? msn-wink.gif )

 

Seriously though I think you bring up a good point for anyone who isn't really using this tactic. The problem is of course they stay outside the opponent's deployment and in practice I find you still have to be a little conservative with them because while they are Primaris, they can get chewed up fairly quickly and then you've given up some killpoints early, and lost your board control.

Oh it has? I never saw anyone bringing up the Land Raider Proteus having synergy with the Infiltrators/Captain.

 

Well, due to the wording, if they get within 12" of your opponent's board edge, your opponent can't deep strike, even in their own deployment zone. Because the wording says your opponent cannot set up units within 12" of them (the Proteus however specifies outside their Deployment Zone, Infiltrators/Phobos Captain excludes that part and just states they can't do it period)

 

And yeah, being Primaris they can get chewed up easily, but there are some ways around it. For example, with my Dark Angels, a couple Darkshrouds gives the opponent -1 to hit. So there's some ways to swing it in your favour, imo.

 

And no, I shower every day laugh.png


Edited by Gederas, 26 May 2019 - 03:02 PM.

  • Prot and Warhead01 like this

#4
Warhead01

Warhead01

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,299 posts
  • Location:Crescent City Fl.
  • Faction: The Deleted.

The deepstrike denial was a huge reason for me to buy the Shadow spear set.  I on't know just how far past stopping deepstrike turn 2 I will be able to achieve. I mostly see it as a counter to the turn one charge by orks, excluding anything able to do it from the table on turn one. But protecting my more key units in the back will buy time. The only other thought I have on this is just how few units can I get away with using to stop the turn 1 deepstrike & charge.  
 


Edited by Warhead01, 26 May 2019 - 03:13 PM.

uberwolve 15/01/03 - 6/18/17  username replaced 

http://warhead01.blogspot.com/
Destroy what you enjoy!

  Enjoy what you destroy!

 


#5
PeteySödes

PeteySödes

    ++ FERRARII CONQUISITOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 2,148 posts
  • Location:Minnesota
100%. I’m painting up my infiltrators because those alone can protect my vehicles from rude T1 chargers. Oh and my scouts are poop.
  • Prot, Warhead01 and Black Blow Fly like this

#6
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 11,266 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE
Scouts are poop indeed . :D

Only a fool will claim a loyal and proven Primarch would ever turn ...

=][=

my 40k blog:https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Space Marines 247

=][=

wc.jpg

=][=

Blood and Honor!https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue and Plot Armor are terms used by losers


#7
Prot

Prot

    ++ EQUES AEDITUUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 13,822 posts
I still like scouts with sniper rifles, and even the odd heavy Bolter for Mortal wounds....but mostly to offset the costs of the Infiltrators. ( I only own one box set though)

I don’t like the Helix option as a side note. Just way too expensive and the squads true goal is denial. If I had 5 more I might just use 2 x 5 but for now I only use 5 abd criss my fingers when the opponent brings in reserves. Lol.

Click to see....
gallery_2760_14273_30255.jpg
Instagram: @Prot40k


#8
PeteySödes

PeteySödes

    ++ FERRARII CONQUISITOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 2,148 posts
  • Location:Minnesota
I was strictly talking about wolf scouts, I wish I had the scout deployment. As it is though our scouts have to deploy then count as moving when they come in unless I do a traditional deployment.

As for the helix, I see it as more of a small arms deturant. If they try to nickel and dime them down to get through it may not be as efficient. Meaning the larger guns get point to them instead of other stuff. That’s purely speculation though, I don’t have enough play time with them.

Edited by PeteySödes, 26 May 2019 - 05:12 PM.


#9
Gaz1858

Gaz1858

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,534 posts
  • Location:Sydney AU
  • Faction: Grey Knights and Admech

Hi all,

 

I have just added a unit of Infiltrators to my Admech just to stop the opponent Da Jumping on me an the like as Admech struggle hugely here. 

 

How do the infiltrators work with Genestealer cults? As i read it you could put the Infiltrators down 9" away from a blip and then the GC cant use it, is that right??


QUOTE
Snipper Rifles: 36", Heavy D3 Rending, as they hurl barber's scissors across the battlefield with deadly precision!

#10
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 11,266 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE
Prot Turbo Penetrator round is the new hotness.

Only a fool will claim a loyal and proven Primarch would ever turn ...

=][=

my 40k blog:https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Space Marines 247

=][=

wc.jpg

=][=

Blood and Honor!https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue and Plot Armor are terms used by losers


#11
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,494 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal, Dal'yth Sept

While they can easily deny deep strike for good ... it's rarely needed to such a degree. You only need to deny deep strike where it hurts and the charge deny is only interesting against some few armies who can reliably charge out of deep strike.


They are super situational and generally I'd rather take the cheaper Scouts for my infiltrating Troop needs (if they had good models) and these days Eliminators for infiltration in general (the 1+ save in cover and the small footprint is really great!).


Edited by sfPanzer, 27 May 2019 - 08:17 AM.

  • Warhead01 likes this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpg


#12
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 11,266 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE
Orks and GSC are two very popular factions that can reliably from deep strike. There are others as well.

Only a fool will claim a loyal and proven Primarch would ever turn ...

=][=

my 40k blog:https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Space Marines 247

=][=

wc.jpg

=][=

Blood and Honor!https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue and Plot Armor are terms used by losers






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Deepstrike, Tactics, Shenanigans, Shadowspear, Primaris Vanguard, Forge World

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users