Taking Admech to ITC

[Gaz1858]

Morning all,

 

I will be attending a 5 game ITC Tourney this weekend and will be taking the below list. I will update with the results of the games following the tourney and any new findings based on the armies I play. Any Qs or Comments on the list go ahead prior to Tourney (List submitted though so cant change it lol)

 

Mars Bat

Cybernetica Cohort

 

Cawl

TPE

 

2 x 5 Vanguard

1 x 5 Rangers w 2 Arquebus

 

1 x 5 Kastelan Dakka Bots

1 x Onager w Icarus and BSDT

 

Stygies VIII Bat

 

2 x TPE

 

3 x 5 Rangers

 

2 x 10 Fulgurites

 

2 x Terrax Drill 

 

Marine Patrol

 

Librarian in Phobos - Warlord (5+regen CP), Tome of Malcador, Mind Raid, Tenebrous Curse and Null Zone

 

1 x 5 Infiltrators

 

Total - 1999pts and 12CP

 

 

Game Plan

Start with the marines as the admech is straight forward. The Infiltrators deny Reinforcements within 12" of them and can deploy anywhere that is 9" from the enemy. These will be used to deny Da Jump, Genestealer Cults Stratagems and so on. With the ability to deploy anywhere and then my screening Troops I should be able to force the opponent to stay well away from the bots and Onager.

 

The Libby is there as some Psy defence and to add a little bit of offense to. Curse does a MW and the affected unit has to half all movement. The Mind Raid can add a CP, Null Zone turns off enemy INV saves, also has Smite of course. Nothing to build a game plan around but cool to have. He can also deploy anywhere that is 9" from the enemy

 

From there it is just the Bots blowing things away whilst also being able to move due to the Cohort and the priests in their drills either being offensive or taking an Obj from an opponent and sitting here with 3++ or 2++. Troops are screens/objective campers. The Stygies ones will be used as Obj holders more often due to the -1 to hit

 

I have completed a sheet of all Stratagems that can be used and the phase they can be used in as a helpful reminder. Very good idea if you dont do this already.

 

Thats it and see how we go from here!

 

 

[SydonianDragoon404]

Very interesting list, I'm keen on seeing how you do. My main concern is how you will do against an enemy that can destroy the dakka bots turn one and goes first like Tau, Guard, and I'm sure there are others

Edited May 27, 2019 by SydonianDragoon404

[Gaz1858]

Very interesting list, I'm keen on seeing how you do. My main concern is how you will do against an enemy that can destroy the dakka bots turn one and goes first like Tau, Guard, and I'm sure there are other..s

Yep its a valid concern. It hasnt happened to me so far but you never know!! I do find that those type of gunline armies are more afraid of the Priests and Drills tagging them however so will split their fire which can help.

 

If possible and under threat the bots will be hidden and then move and shoot using CP. Big ask though as 5 of them take up some space

[Prot]

I like what you're doing with the marine patrol. But I would definitely try to get an assassin in there. I've learned recently from forcing myself to start using the (new) assassins that it does fill a tremendous gap for armies like AdMech and Custodes, etc. 

 

As far as match ups it looks to me like you're going to be dependent on table terrain not being too much of a factor. With ITC if they use their ruin rules it can be a bit silly. Literally impossible to shoot at certain units without breaching terrain borders. 

 

For this reason I use a Knight line. I realize this is a massive departure from what you're using but I don't know how often you play ITC (I don't really care for it so only play it at tournaments) but the thing you have to get used to is that Ruin rule. For Admech it can be so incredibly punishing because once they tag you, it's all but over unless you can push back extremely hard. 

[brother_b]

I like what you're doing with the marine patrol. But I would definitely try to get an assassin in there. I've learned recently from forcing myself to start using the (new) assassins that it does fill a tremendous gap for armies like AdMech and Custodes, etc. 

 

As far as match ups it looks to me like you're going to be dependent on table terrain not being too much of a factor. With ITC if they use their ruin rules it can be a bit silly. Literally impossible to shoot at certain units without breaching terrain borders. 

 

For this reason I use a Knight line. I realize this is a massive departure from what you're using but I don't know how often you play ITC (I don't really care for it so only play it at tournaments) but the thing you have to get used to is that Ruin rule. For Admech it can be so incredibly punishing because once they tag you, it's all but over unless you can push back extremely hard.

 

Which assassins do you prefer? The vindicare has been ok, and the eversor is always going to demand some attention. I rarely use the callidus and am painting up my first culexus.

[Gaz1858]

The lists are out and there are minimal Genestelaer Cults but a lot of Orks so I imagine my Infiltrators will get a ton of use stopping Da Jump.

 

There are also a lot of Knights and Flyers so hopefully terrain shouldnt be too much of an Issue. I am kinda wishing id brought another Icarus but I just couldnt fit it.

 

There are a couple of Chaos lists to but mainly Imperial

[Prot]

I was just at a 6 round ITC event. The Vindicair was everywhere. I use most of them, but at the end of the day the Vindicair is almost too good... literally just game changing against character heavy lists. Getting back CP is just icing on top of icing.

[Gaz1858]

So the tournament was this past weekend and here is a recap of the games

 

Game One - Admech!

 

So there were only 3 Admech players at the tourney and 2 of us faced off in Game 1. He had:

Cawl

Maniplulus with reroll hits Trait and 6s in overwatch relic

One big squad of breachers and a smaller squad

Squad of destroyers

5 Dragoons

5 Dakka Bots

Some units of rangers

Servitors

 

I went first and took out 4.5 of the Bot unit with my bot unit. One drill and priest unit charged big Breacher unit whilst other 2 charged dragoons that had stygied forward. The Priests units both whiffed really not taking out many breachers or Dragoons. Drills did a little better but neither unit completely destroyed. 

 

From there it was a bit of an arm wrestle but due to having the first turn and taking out his bots I had forced him to basically abandon a flank or get shot. It was a good game and Breachers with 3 Attacks re rolling, 6s in overwatch generating more shots and Cawl rerolling (just for this tourney) did a fair amount of damage and were tougher to shift than I thought. I managed to hold and kill more most turns. 

 

First game a win for (my) Admech

 

Game Two - Orks

Loadsa Boyz!!

Souped up shokk attack gun

Painboy

Warboss

Tankbustas

Weirdboys etc

 

I got turn one here and couldnt do too much as he had managed to hide most of his squads and put the rest in DS. I took a few models out of one boyz unit but left it above half strength so that he couldnt use his Strat. His turn one the Tankbustas came into view and popped a drill and that was about it. 

 

My turn 2 I took the tankbustas down to a single model allowing the priests from the destroyed drill get an easy 3++. Killed a few more other boyz and again that was about it.

 

The game eventually came down to a single point of genius from my view lol. He had a unit of boyz wrapping my Librarian so I couldnt shoot them so I used 3 CP, called down a bombardment on his head and took the last wound out of my Libby!!! Freeing up the Bots to unload into the Boyz unit and clear my lines.

 

His boyz just couldnt get close enough to my lines to really do any damage as the bots just cleared them up whenever they showed themselves. A drill took out his painboy and warboss in one turn and in the end he had one boy and the soupped up shokka left. 

 

Game 2 win for Admech

 

Game 3 Knights and guard

 

My bogey army as lots of kinghts and mortars I cant do anything about! He had 2 Gallants that moved really fast, a crusader and loads guard. 

 

He got turn 1 despite me getting +1 and a gallant got into combat turn one with some troops. No big deal really. His crusader didnt do much to my bots as Aegis plus Cover means a 1+ save and with -2 I was saving on 3+ at worst. The gallant killed the troops and that was turn 1.

 

Turn two i shot 3 bots into a crusader and 2 into the Gallant closest to me using double shot and Wrath of Mars. The Crusader was left with 6 wounds as he passed a load of 5++ (it shouldve died really) and the Gallant was fairly damaged. I then charged in 9 priests, the drill, the libby and Cawl to take him down. With only about 9 wounds left I thought the priests would do it. They didnt. They took 4 or 5 wounds out. He interrupted, picked up cawl and squished him. I shouldnt have charged cawl in so that was my bad but hitting on 5s with the Death Grip Strat I thought he would be fine. I ended up paying 3CP to fight again with the priests and brought it down.

 

From there though he just backed up a bit and shot me for the rest of the game as I had stupidly locked the bots down at the back of the board and he outranged me. This was definitely a case of third game fatigue as I also forgot to bring my second drill in turn 2. 

 

First Loss for admech finishing day 1 at 2-1

 

Day two I will post later

[DanPesci]

Congrats on the victories,

 

I especially like the idea of that librarian, knowing he was swamped but that the kastelan protocols wouldn't allow them to fire upon him, instead calling down an orbital bombardment on himself for the greater cause of the battle. Great stuff (and so sneaky gork - or mork - would probably have approved haha)

[Prot]

I'm curious how the Lootas did against you. The tankbustas are mean but I find the lootas are nasty with the combo's.

 

Yea, I never... ever charge a 'mediocre' character into anything with access to Death Grip. That's something you only do once!. 

 

The Libby thing is ingenious... perhaps something Cawl would do. lol

[Gaz1858]

The Ork player didnt have Lootas. I have played against them before however and they seem to target the bots which I personally think is a mistake. Theyre only going to get 1 round of shooting and using that to fire at a unit with a base 1+ save on turn 1 (cover and aegis) means very few wounds are done and then the bots blow them away.

 

Yes the orbital bombardment did make me feel quite smart lol

[Gaz1858]

Day two started against Chaos

 

Big Plaguebearer unit

Rhino

2 Defilers

Lord Discordant

Lord

Sorceror

Deredeo Dreadnought

Havocs w Missile Launchers

Havocs w those new 8 shot gatling things

Winged Daemon Prince

Some other Nurgle character

2 nurgling bases

 

The terrain was quite dense along the edges and we played Spearhead Assault so most of my army was hidden and he didnt do much with his first turn but move forward and advance the plaguebearers. Mine was disappointing as i put 3 Bots with double shot and Wrath into a Rhino and the other 2 into a Defiler. The Rhino only lost 8 wounds. He had used Smoke so hitting on 5s but still.....I did kill a nurgling unit for kill more and we held the same Objectives

 

Turn 2 his plaguebearers advanced again as they were screening his daemon prince, everything else moved up and then the shooting began. The havocs fired twice (#newreapers) and took down 2 bots and then the Gatling unit killed a 5 man vanguard. Few other pot shots but nothing significant. My turn 2 saw both drills appear in front of his Lord Discordant on my left flank which also had a defiler next to him. Theyre 2 x 3 Melta and16 storm bolter shots left the Discordant with 6 wounds. Charging, 1 drill hit once out of 6 attacks and then failed to wound on 2s!!!!! The next drill hit 2 times, wounded twice, he saved one and then that plus mortal left him with 1 wound!!! 3 Hits from 12 attacks hitting on 4s is terrible. Luckily they both survived him hitting back.

 

My shooting for turn 2 was a lot better as my 2 Arquebus removed the last 3 wounds of the Rhino freeing up my three remaining bots to remove all but 12 of the plaguebearers and the army did a few wounds elsewhere to.

 

From here he charged the Defiler and Daemon prince into the Drills, killed them both and then priests got out. The blast from one Drill took the final wounds out the discordant (really good stratagem to remember the auto blow up) and the priests then destroyed the Defiler, remaining plagueberers, second defiler, Sorceror and basically ripped his core apart whilst withstanding their shooting. I had popped the +1 save and attack on one of the units so the 2++ helped! 

 

Win for admech going into final round 3 - 1 and.......

 

 

Game 5 was against Iknights and guard with mortars :-( There were only two or three armies like this and I got two of them. 

 

I deployed first, he rolled a 3. Anything but a 1 and I go first to take out his Castellan and I roll a 1. Game over. His Castellan takes out 4 of the 5 bots, and he stops my drills from going anywhere. Nothing I can do from here on and it finished 30 - 21 so not a massive loss but still a loss

 

Final result 3 - 2

 

 

Will post up my ideas, findings etc afterwards

Edited June 4, 2019 by Gaz1858

[Prot]

It's too bad you ran into a Castellan. I went up against a 3 Knight, 3 Shield Captain list this weekend and at least I could survive some of it..

 

Thanks for the great write up and it was clear enough that I got a feel for how the games the went. 

 

How big were the Infiltrators? Did they have a meaningful impact in any game in particular?

 

How about the Phobos libby? When did he shine? Would you take him again?

 

The issue of Knights: On a side note I have two lists that I go to most often. one is with a Knight one is without. The one with out uses a lot of chicken walkers to mitigate the number of Gallants/etc we see here. What would you change to give yourself a better chance against those lists (would you agree they gave you the biggest headaches?)

 

Thanks again for a great write up.

[Gaz1858]

The Infiltrators didnt really do much as only the orks wanted to Deep Strike close to my lines and, with the way the terrain was, the 12" didnt come into effect much

 

The Phobos Libby denied Death Hex on the 2++ Priests and also Miasma on a Plaguebearer unit so a Libby of any kind would be useful really. Halving the move of a unit did come in useful to.  I will go into denying powers below

 

Thoughts

 

The Priests are good and they can cause a ton of headaches for an opponent. However, I have found that 10 will struggle to make an impact and only really when combined into a target/s did they shine. I also found the Drills to be very lackluster. I just couldnt seem to hit with them even 6 attacks on 4s I was getting below average hits.

 

Going forward I will be combining these into one 20-ish man squad of priests and Deep Striking with Lucius. If I have the points then a Manipulus holding the Lucius Relic will also be added to make the charge 8".

 

 

The Kastelan Robots are by far the best unit we have and they demolish anything they shoot at. I did notice that the single unit could be seriously damaged by something like the Castellan. Going forward I am actually going to change the single 5 Bot squad to a 4 Bot squad AND a 3 Bot squad. This will allow me to keep a unit in double shot turn 1 whilst the other maybe moves up, or just more survivable.

 

Regarding denying powers. As part of the Lucius Priests I am going to have a Mixed Detachment which will include Graia Infantry. Denying a power on a 4+ can be really helpful and its a way of us doing so without allying another army/using a whole detachment to do so.

 

Some other points and thoughts

 

1. I will be adding some Destroyers to allow for the +1 to hit on Kastelans. Just a small unit of 3. They will also be Servitor Maniple.

2. If you are taking the Servitor Maniple and a Mixed Detachment doesnt bother you then making the Servitors Agripanaa allows you to bring them back to full strength for 1CP. Useful to keep the fixing going

3. Admech really struggle in an ITC format as they have no indirrect fire. So AM Mortars can be a good ally. Outside of that then assassins can be taken without losing your Admech status in ITC

4. A Stygies Ranger squad as Engineers can be a good choice for some points. The -1 to hit and 3+ in cover and 6++ can really help. Otherwise the servitors can be good as the opponent doesnt really want to shoot at them as they arent dangerous but will have to in order to stop you scoring. And with Agripanaa they can be brought back.

 

An example of my Mixed Det is

 

2 x TPE Graia (1 with the Master Biologis Trait)

2 x 5 Rangers Graia

1 x 3 Destroyers Mars (this allows them to boost the Kastelan shooting etc even from another Det)

1 x 4 Servitors Agripanaa (The Warlord trait of bringing back destroyers doesnt mention anything about being from the same FW, just Friendly. And I can regen the squad)

1 x 18 Fulgurite Priests Lucius ( For Deep Strike)

 

This allows me to DS the priests, use the 4+ deny from Graia, bring back the servitors and also have the Destroyers benefit from Servitor Maniple AND boost the Kastelans who are in a Cohort Cybernetica Mars Detachment.

 

My full 2K list as it stands today can be seen HERE

Edited June 8, 2019 by Gaz1858

[brother_b]

The Manipuls’ power takes effect at the beginning of the phase and only works on units that started within 6”. The Lucius teleport happens at the end of the phase. You’ll still have to make a 9” charge the turn they come in.

[MajorNese]

The Manipuls’ power takes effect at the beginning of the phase and only works on units that started within 6”. The Lucius teleport happens at the end of the phase. You’ll still have to make a 9” charge the turn they come in.

Was it FAQed? Not sure, but RAW it does help charging.

"[...]add 1 to Advance and Charge rolls made for [...] units that are within of 6" of any models using the Bolster Warriors ability when the roll is made."

 

The ability has to be activated at the start of the turn (preventing regular DS), but relic teleport means the manipulus is on the board to do so. Otherwise the target unit has to be within 6" when the roll is made, read in the charge phase. I guess you could even charge with the Manipulus to get into range of other units, then declare a charge with said units - when the roll is made, they are in range.

[brother_b]

 

The Manipuls’ power takes effect at the beginning of the phase and only works on units that started within 6”. The Lucius teleport happens at the end of the phase. You’ll still have to make a 9” charge the turn they come in.

 

Was it FAQed? Not sure, but RAW it does help charging.

"[...]add 1 to Advance and Charge rolls made for [...] units that are within of 6" of any models using the Bolster Warriors ability when the roll is made."

 

The ability has to be activated at the start of the turn (preventing regular DS), but relic teleport means the manipulus is on the board to do so. Otherwise the target unit has to be within 6" when the roll is made, read in the charge phase. I guess you could even charge with the Manipulus to get into range of other units, then declare a charge with said units - when the roll is made, they are in range.

I don’t know if it was faqd actually.

 

There was a lot of discussion whee I play that the charge part of the rule was just a continuation of the first part of the rule needing the unit to start within 6”. The person arguing the rule seemed to be informed.

 

Bad info on my point unless it was explained somewhere else, I’d be very interested as I tend to play Stygies and Lucius and would love to use the Manipulus with Lucius priests.

Edited June 8, 2019 by brother_b

[MajorNese]

There's nothing in the AdMech FAQ, so we have just the one rule sentence. Let's just dissect that...

 

"Until the start of your next movement phase, add 1" to the Move characteristic of friendly FW units that start their move within 6" of any models using the Bolster Warriors ability,

and add 1 to Advance and Charge rolls made for [...] units that are within of 6" of any models using the Bolster Warriors ability when the roll is made."

 

The first part of the sentence is just about the Move characteristic, not charges. Also it says when they start their move, not start of the movement phase. My guess would be, it shall prevent people from using the Manipulus as a slingshot, by moving through the bubble and claiming the buff.

 

The second part of the sentence is a different effect (+1 for a roll, not modifying a characteristic) and directly states which units are affected - friendly units within 6" when the roll is made. Even if the second part were a continuation of the first part, it would still apply - they would have to be within 6" when they start their move, which they are as they have to be within 6" when the roll is made.

Just that the charge sequence kind of invalidates the continuation argument - you would add +1 to a roll when it is made (as they're within 6" when made), then start your move where you check if you receive that +1 (which you already got) by starting the move in 6".

 

The only thing that is restricted, and indeed has to be done at the start of the movement phase, is choosing between Bolster Warriors and Bolster Weapons. For that the Manipulus has to be on the board at the start of the round (possible with relocation relic). Once that is done, every unit checks immediately before moving/rolling charges if they are within 6" of a model using the Bolster Warriors ability - no other restrictions.

[brother_b]

I’m going to roll with that I think it’s a very good explanation. That also makes the manipulas even more desirable with the assault elements of my army. I think the rules lawyer guy was just doing that. It didn’t mean anything to my game so whatever.

 

Good clarification!

[Gaz1858]

Exactly as MajorNese explains and it is a common mistake Brother_b. People seem to think that the aura needs to be chosen and effect resolved all at the same time.

 

Yes you choose the aura at the beginning but the Manipulus can then move etc and a unit only has to be within 6" when IT moves or charges to get the benefit.

[Prot]

Back to the list I keep thinking about GSC. I personally don’t want to ally with marines for Infiltrators but I think if all my GSC games and I can’t repel it especially in the waves they are capable of, plus their anti character snipers is just so disabling.

 

Also the Kastelans. I started leaning my Mars towards heavier and heavier Destroyer lists with a minor 2 Kastelan compliment, and sometimes a pair of boxing bits. But I have to admit your results definitely have me reconsidering my ratio.