Unit of the Week: Terminator Assault Squad

[Karhedron]

Add in the 5+++ of the Standard of Sacrifice...

 

Any Assault termies greatly benefit from the Terminator Ancient w/ the SoS upgrade. Now they are re-rolling all To Hit, are +1Ld (why not?) and get 2+/3++/5+++. That will really infuriate an opponent. You may even survive the march up the board to smack something.

I would actully be tempted to take the Sanguinary Ancient instead and start him on the table T1 to protect your firebase. The T2, hop him up to join the Terminators.

 

There is a risk that you want to DS the Terminators on the other side of the table but there is still UWOF to handle that situation. Standard of Sacrifice is just such a great relic that you want it on the table buffing bods as much as possible, especially given how much of a pounding many armies can dish out on the first turn.

[dread05]

How do these chaps look with the new red thirst giving +1 on charge rolls? 

[Panzer]

Much much better than before. Though since SG are basically flying Terminators there's not much point to taking anything else than TH/SS ones imo.

[Xenith]

I need to make another unit of THSS guys for 10 total and deepstrike them about. 3++ Vanguard are hard enough to dislodge, but add a 2+ and 2W on top of that and they're tricky for the opponent. Getting the charge on an 8+ rather than a 9+ makes it all the better. 

[Charlo]

Line up a Chaplain and it's 7+

[Frater Antodeniel]

I can imagine that with the new Flesh Tearers rules, Terminator Assault Squad with Lighting Claws could greatly benefit from the -1 AP, since they can reroll Wound rolls, maximising the natural 6 rolls, while becoming very resistant when backed by a Sanguinary Priest with the Flesh Tearers narthecium relic. (Note that in the fluff, Flesh Tearers do not have Sanguinary Guard, mostly due to the fact that Nassir Amit and Azkaellon weren't really friends. So their Sanguinary Guard is basically a Terminator "Honor Guard", and certainly one specialised in melee.^^)

[Panzer]

Flesh Tearers Terminators will definitely require a UWoF Chaplain to jump nearby and give +2 to charge rolls though. Otherwise they are most likely going to fail the charge and sit there for a turn which means getting killed in the enemy shooting phase or never reaching their target because they simply walk away.

[SnorriSnorrison]

With Red Thirst and the doctrines, our Assault Terminators are more reliable than ever. We have more ways to effect the charge roll after DS, and the hammers will get an extra -1 AP in turn 3, in which they still should be alive. And the extra attacks of course.

 

I’ll be using this unit more often now. A jump chaplain might be needed to wing up to them and chant the +2 charge range canticle, but that’s a price I’m glad to pay because that’s an aura effect.

 

Quake bolts offer and interesting synergy with hammer-bearing models, as well as fists. The new stratagem Fury of the First actually means they don’t need a Chaplain all of the time, or if you fail to chant the litany, or if you needed another one like the +2 charge one. Stack ‘em both and assure the destruction of every target with hammers that hit and wound on 2’s. Comes at a price of course.

 

One of the bigger winners of this update, getting more reliable in the charge and assault phase.

[YogiDaAngel]

I want to dust off this thread a bit with changes to Termies in 9th and surffacing of a -1 dmg rule on more and more units also I've box of them unbuild. With LC's they throw out ungodly amount of S4 AP-2 1D RRW and in assault doctrine or with the buff of Sang Priest they get even better BUT their role at this point is better done by SG as dmg dealers with TH+SS they are hard to shift and can do good dmg but they need rerolls or +1 to hit from quake bolts and this role is better done by blade guards. 
So that will be all for a lenghty foreword my question is with -1 dmg on more units do you think LC's on them are better or TH+SS loudout is better ? 
 

[Shaezus]

I'm very keen to try THSS in the objective grabbing and holding role. 9 termies backed up by apothecary with rites of war. fury of the first for the +1

 

The TH goes a long way over the fist when facing -1 damage. Worth considering using Angel Ascendant on the sergeant to make his hammer master - crafted.

 

In some lists a big squad of THSS makes While We Stand We Fight a strong secondary

[Karhedron]

TH/SS terminators are still more durable than Bladeguard as they have a 1+ save making them a lot more durable against massed AP-1 and AP-2 attacks. Termies also hit harder. BGVs are excellent at killing other Elite Infantry but Termies can take on targets with T6+ far better than BGVs. Bladeguard also have the problem of limited mobility. You really have to factor an Impulsor into their price unless you want to foot slog them. Termies can Teleport which is great in a game that is all about Objectives.

 

I would actually say that our Sanguinary Guard are better than BGVs as a hammer unit and Termies are better as an anvil unit.

 

Of course Termies do benefit from buffing the to-Hit roll. Fortunately we have many ways of doing that. Captain or CM rerolls are great value. A Chaplain with Litany of Hate is great. Quake bolts are flexible and can be given to a convenient Character of choice. Alternatively go defensive and put a Sanguinary Priest with them to heal and Res. Being able to push them into the Assault Doctrine early is also a handy bonus.

 

Much as I like the new Bladeguard, I think that Assault Terminators actually work better for us a lot of the time. I would rather pair SG with Termies for an offensive/defensive wing approach than 2 squads of BGVs.

[Xenith]

I think that LC terminators are a decent choice this edition also. While they lack the staying power of Storm shields, you get a lot of attacks, 5 each with 6 on the seargeant, in the first round. 

 

Back of the envelope mathhammer is a 5x LC unit will cause 6.14 wounds on a unit of Plague Marines, killing 3, while a 5x Thammer unit will cause 3.6 wounds, also killing 3. 

 

Things to consider are burst damage, when everything goes right: claws kill max 13 plagues, while hammers kill 16. Against 1w chaff, claws do 26 v the hammer's 16. 

[Karhedron]

Another useful trick with Claws is to give the Seargent MC Claws for 2D. Quite a tidy upgrade unless you are facing something with a -1D ability.

 

This loadout actually works well with either Claw or Hammer squads. In a Hammer squad, it gives you some volume of attacks to deal with weaker opponents without the -1 to-Hit of the Hammers. In a Claw squad, it gives you some higher damage output if you run into multi-wound targets.

[Xenith]

Another useful trick with Claws is to give the Seargent MC Claws for 2D. 

 

Just bear in mind that the Artificer upgrade is for a single weapon, while the serge has two claws - only one of them will be 2D. 

[Bonzi]

 

 

Another useful trick with Claws is to give the Seargent MC Claws for 2D.

Just bear in mind that the Artificer upgrade is for a single weapon, while the serge has two claws - only one of them will be 2D.

Which is fine because you just declare all your attacks are coming from the artificer claw.

[Xenith]

 

 

Another useful trick with Claws is to give the Seargent MC Claws for 2D.

Just bear in mind that the Artificer upgrade is for a single weapon, while the serge has two claws - only one of them will be 2D.

Which is fine because you just declare all your attacks are coming from the artificer claw.

 

 

The claw states that when you attack, you make an additional attack with that weapon, so indeed, all but that one bonus attack can be with the special claw. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Xenith

[Hintzy]

Edit: Xenith beat me. Edited January 19, 2021 by Hintzy

[Bonzi]

I honestly didn't even notice that claws are changed to grant +1 attack each and that a pair has no combined bonus like they used to.

[Xenith]

I honestly didn't even notice that claws are changed to grant +1 attack each and that a pair has no combined bonus like they used to.

 

Yes, it's a big boost. A pair of claws is now +2A in addition to the reroll all failed wounds it used to get. 

[Indefragable]

TH/SS Terminators are hilarious. 

Used a 5 man squad in my last game and in cover, that 0+ Sv was ridiculous. My opponent was laughing as he shot like 5 units at them just to see how it played out (including 2x Assault Cannon Razorbacks). They took 1 wound. 

 

Add in the 6+++ from a Sang Priest and/or revives and they are even hardier. I'd be curious to see how they stack up against Bladeguard for sitting on an OBJ in cover and never ever dying. 

 

...of course no shooting means they have to just sit there and take fire since a smart opponent would never bother to engage them and just ignore them or whittle them down from range. 

[Vermintide]

All the way through 8th I was holding out for these guys to get good. The Emperor rewards those who keep the faith :D

 

I still wanna run a dumb "all the eggs in one basket" kind of list with ten TH/SS Termies, and full complement of Terminator HQs. It's a solid 700 point investment, but once they reach the middle of the table I don't think they're going anywhere, and with all those buffs plus the +1WS stratagem I think you can be pretty confident they're killing anything they hit. Probably wouldn't even bother deep striking them, just advance up the board absorbing anything that gets fired at them.

 

I think it's fair to say we still want to take them for the durability over the offensive capability, but mixing in those LCs is now much more viable. A full LC unit probably isn't worthwhile because we have much better and more mobile options for clearing chaff; but if you want a rock solid anchor that can still punch anything it touches to death TH/SS guys are where it's at.

 

The Bladeguard come in if you want a middle ground between the two, I reckon.

[Shaezus]

 

 

 

 

Another useful trick with Claws is to give the Seargent MC Claws for 2D.

Just bear in mind that the Artificer upgrade is for a single weapon, while the serge has two claws - only one of them will be 2D.

Which is fine because you just declare all your attacks are coming from the artificer claw.

The claw states that when you attack, you make an additional attack with that weapon, so indeed, all but that one bonus attack can be with the special claw.

Beg to difffer; contrast with the wording for the Iibrarian dreadnoughts force halberd for example, which specifically states only one attack can be made with that weapon.

 

The wording of the claws means you can choose that weapon to make all the attacks with, then make an extra attack

 

edit. same for the astartes chainsword

Edited January 19, 2021 by Shaezus

[Gloomfoe]

BGV and hammer terminators are nearly equally durable. Having access to transhuman physiology really makes BGV contenders. But hammer termies in cover are crazy good, requiring AP -3 to get shifted ONCE. I use both units and keep them close to a priest. I usually split the terminators and put one in deep strike, with the other deployed unit having a teleport homer. But I might try footslogging them as a big unit next time.

[Xenith]

 

Beg to difffer; contrast with the wording for the Iibrarian dreadnoughts force halberd for example, which specifically states only one attack can be made with that weapon.

 

The wording of the claws means you can choose that weapon to make all the attacks with, then make an extra attack

 

edit. same for the astartes chainsword

 

 

My Codex says "...make 1 extra attack with this weapon" for both Lightning Claw and Astartes Chainsword.

 

Are you looking at a Battlescribe version of the rules, maybe?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Xenith

[Shaezus]

 

 

 

Beg to difffer; contrast with the wording for the Iibrarian dreadnoughts force halberd for example, which specifically states only one attack can be made with that weapon.

The wording of the claws means you can choose that weapon to make all the attacks with, then make an extra attack

edit. same for the astartes chainsword

 

My Codex says "...make 1 extra attack with this weapon" for both Lightning Claw and Astartes Chainsword.

 

Are you looking at a Battlescribe version of the rules, maybe?

I'm looking at the codex rules.

 

So you choose which weapon to make the attacks with as normal. Choose the claw. Then you get to make the additional attack with the claw. Or two additional attacks if you have two claws.

 

Contrast with the furioso force halberd which has the exact same wording followed by "..and no more than 1 attack can be made with this weapon"

 

Clear distinction between the two rules