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Road to East China Open - Sept 2019


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#1
Morticon

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So.....dates for the Shanghai East China open have been announced..... 


Time to get this ball rolling :D

 


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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

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#2
CaptainHelion

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No time like the present! Given you're looking at a mono-codex list this time around, how are you thinking about incorporating the bits of non-BA army that you've been using into your BA list?


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#3
BrotherAetherick

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Looking forward to following your list development and preparation here as well!



#4
Dont-Be-Haten

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Roughly 3 months of prepping. You got this.

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#5
Morticon

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CaptainHelion,

Its going to be weaker, for sure, but I think the dreads and scout bikers will make a simple shift into the BA slots.

I will almost definitely use DC for the forlorn fury. I'm keen to see how these guys play out in my list. I haven't used them in a long time. I'm also contemplating refitting the VanVets to be a little more punchy.

Will get back with some playtest options soon!
  • Black Blow Fly and CaptainHelion like this
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#6
keeblerartillery

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Mort, based on your and Shaezus’ reports, I came up with a couple of lists. Interested to see if it is close to what you are thinking about, but here is my suggestion/what I am currently fielding:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [39 PL, 730pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Auxiliary grenade launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

+ Fast Attack +

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 71pts]
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Storm bolter, Twin boltgun

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 71pts]
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Storm bolter, Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 85pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad launcher

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [26 PL, 403pts] ++

+ HQ +

Librarian Dreadnought [9 PL, 142pts]: 1. Quickening, 6. Wings of Sanguinus, Furioso fist, Storm bolter

Sanguinary Priest [5 PL, 86pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
. Scout: Heavy bolter
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [69 PL, 866pts] ++

+ HQ +

Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

+ Elites +

Death Company [18 PL, 218pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine
. . Bolt pistol and chainsword

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 185pts]: Heavy bolter
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 185pts]: Heavy bolter
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Vanguard Veteran Squad [16 PL, 178pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Power sword, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

++ Total: [134 PL, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The idea being that you can forlorn and wings the two cpts and use the Libby for a first turn “suicide” charge, supported by the sicarans and scout bikes. I plan on using the priest supported vets to jump up the field with their storm shields and drop the DC with Lemmy turn 2. I feel like it is a pretty flexible list - only short on AT. You could easily replace the sicarans with the dreads though, and do a spearhead detachment instead of vanguard.

Edited by keeblerartillery, 30 May 2019 - 03:34 PM.

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#7
Lynnean

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Keeb, i dont really like the sicarans to be honest. The contemptors will probably fare better in that list

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#8
Morticon

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Keeble - so many similarities!! 

One of my variants has a double sicaran.  I was iffy about them (as Lynean is), but after thinking about A: how many things have Fly (meaning you get to move and shoot with no penalty- AND ignore Alaitoc and other Flyer hard to hit rubbish, and B: do multi-damage to 2W model units, or multidamage to FNP units, this has been given some serious, serious consideration in my lists.  


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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#9
Morticon

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One of the variants I looked at was: 


Captain  *

Captain *

Libby Dread *

Mephy 

3x5 Scouts *

2x5 Sniper Scouts

1x7 Intercessors * 

 

5x Scout Bikers *

5x Bikers - 2plasma

10x DC - 2Hammers *
10x Vanvets - 7Shields, 2 Hammers *

2x Contemptor Mortis. 


(I put a star on the same units - which accounts for more than 2/3rds of the same force) 

The sicaran version is even more similar, but I lose the bikers and Mephy and trade in a Lieutenant for the 2 Sicarans.  


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#10
keeblerartillery

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I feel like Mephy doesn’t add much with a Libby dread already in the list - he wants quickening and wings as much as the dread. I like overlapping unit strengths so there aren’t single points of failure - but cancelling out each other isn’t exactly overlapping. So I think your contemptor list is better served by the Lt. Or the sicaran lists just gives you more flexibility in general - and you can always add lascannon sponsons!
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#11
Tokugawa

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The meta is stirring after faqs. More mech units are emerging in lists. Things like 3*disco lord/3*contemptor/3*deredeo/3*pbc or combinations of above, began to become popular.

If you are also interst in introducing more mech, you would want the best ones. IMO contemptor mortis is among "best tanks", Sicaran...may not.

#12
Morticon

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I feel like Mephy doesn’t add much with a Libby dread already in the list - he wants quickening and wings as much as the dread. I like overlapping unit strengths so there aren’t single points of failure - but cancelling out each other isn’t exactly overlapping. 

 

 

 

 

Completely valid critiques!  Hear me out on the logic, though.   Mephy gets 3 powers- So, the third power in most games is likely to be Unleash Rage for the DC.   After that, I'm very likely to double up on Wings and Quickening simply because the attacks are likely to happen in waves.  With the libby dread taking point, and then usually getting smashed in turn 1 or 2, mephy will play the support role until he's needed in the fray. 

Moving him up with his 7" + d6 (because he doesn't need to shoot) means that he will be ready from turn 2 with his move + wings, supporting whatever else has come before.  His small profile means moving through doors and ruin walls is easier, and can help get over lines of screens.  I think instead of playing him as I play the Wings Captain and the Libby dread- as the smashy duo vanguard, Meph will act as a scalpel for the hardy units left over from this wave of attack. 


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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#13
Lynnean

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Keeble - so many similarities!!

One of my variants has a double sicaran. I was iffy about them (as Lynean is), but after thinking about A: how many things have Fly (meaning you get to move and shoot with no penalty- AND ignore Alaitoc and other Flyer hard to hit rubbish, and B: do multi-damage to 2W model units, or multidamage to FNP units, this has been given some serious, serious consideration in my lists.


Fair point!

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#14
keeblerartillery

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I’m going to stream of consciousness my thoughts on this - cus I am torn now haha. So for me, I feel like there is an opportunity cost here - you are paying for those powers to not be used a turn or two. On the other hand, those powers could be great a few turns in. Would those points be better spent on a chaplain or priest and then some more smashiness for squads? Or does that late game beat stick make up for the opportunity cost?

...I gave you more questions than answers/analysis, but hopefully something to think about while play testing. I know I’m going to consider putting meph in a list now and see how this plays out though, haha
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#15
Black Blow Fly

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Mephiston can more reliably reach assault because he is smaller and easier to hide plus the extra psychic can be very helpful too.

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#16
Tokugawa

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CA18 nerfed Mephi and buffed LibDread, almost switched their point costs, and switch the viability.

#17
Black Blow Fly

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The difference in points is minimal but funnily enough that’s probably the number one reason why people have switched over now. That’s the only difference as none of their actual rules changed except the Fly keyword which applies exactly the same.

Another big advantage for the Lord of a Death is his 2+ armor save and 5+++... he is actually fairly resilient in the current meta while the dread is one and done.

Edited by Black Blow Fly, 31 May 2019 - 11:06 PM.

Only a fool will claim a loyal and proven Primarch would ever turn ...

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#18
Spagunk

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Point cost of mephy is still pretty darn decent, imo. Solid guy unless you're like me and roll badly on casting all the time.


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#19
Black Blow Fly

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It happens from time to time... I remember a game he blew himself by the second turn but that’s like one time out over literally hundreds of games now.

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#20
Morticon

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Don't forget his one additional deny, and his one additional power. Very versatile. He has more attacks than the Libby dread too, and can't make use of the Honour strat
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Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#21
CaptainHelion

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An additional Deny is worth quite a lot. I recently played an AoS tournament, and against anything that wasn't magic light, I would have really liked at least one more Deny.



#22
Spiegel

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I would swap one of the Scouts for another Intercessor Squad and maybe reduce here an there a few points to squeeze in a Devastator Squad. And you could consider Lemartes. He is kind of an assassine with forlorn fury



#23
Morticon

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Spiegel, with those suggestions I'm looking at around 40-60 points more. What would you tweak to get that?
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#24
Tokugawa

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After cherub-hellfire(/flak) combo nerfed,devastators lost their attraction.

#25
Majkhel

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After cherub-hellfire(/flak) combo nerfed,devastators lost their attraction.

How's that? Must have missed something.


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