30 replies to this topic

[N1SB]

UPDATED: the release is out with some minor bugs, which they are actively fixing.  In fact, the devs helped me with one I came across.

 

Video games today are released before they're ready (sadly), then patched to how they were meant to be played later.  Inquisitor: Martyr, the tactical action roleplaying game and the most Dark Heresy-esque PC & console title, might be hitting that milestone.

 

(I will keep this non-spoiler, because I think this news will be most relevant to new players who haven't gotten the game yet.)

 

I talked about Inquisitor: Martyr a year ago after its initial release, suggesting to wait for a few patches before purchase.  They've already fixed things I mentioned like performance issues, then added 2 free "Seasons" of expansions, and now this big patch.

 

Here's the blurb, but let me give context/outright translate below, because unfortunately it's written in jargon existing players understand, but the biggest benefit is for new players who just wanted to play Inquisitor: Martyr for the "storyline"/immersive narrative reasons, and have been waiting until the game has gotten better reviews.  That day might be coming, and it's June 20th.  UPDATE: It's out now, with some minor bugs at the time of this writing.

 

 

 

+++ "Pacing and a Sense of Progression", "Power Rating": less grind for more story? +++

 

 

Inquisitor: Martyr has a fun plot, but mainly it does an excellent job with what Dan Abnett calls the "domestic side of 40k", what my old Dark Heresy GM describes as "how Imperial citizens live, not just how they die (like in the battletop game)".  You have these very Dark Heresy moments.  The problem was there's too much grind for too little story in-between, and they hope to fix that.

 

Spoiler

The Power Rating refers to a gatekeeping mechanic where the game forces you to go grind gear in the middle of the story, which is a mystery/thriller where you're trying to stay ahead of your unseen enemies.  Before a story mission, the game checks your gear, then will tell you it's giving you an ADDITIONAL PENALTY on top of having subar gear of usually around -10% damage dealt while making you take 20% more damage from enemies, just to force you to grind.  And this is in-between a story where your character is supposedly just walking from one room of a ship into the next.

 

An actual recent example: a fellow Inquisitor requests my urgent aid.  I check the mission, notice the Power Rating's too high, so I grind elsewhere, then do the mission.  The Inquisitor snarks that I took my sweet time (very apropos actually since I was grinding), then informs me of an immediate follow-up mission, that I shouldn't leave the system...except the game then shows me a Power Rating that requires me to leave the system to farm for better gear.  It's like the game deliberately contradicted the beautifully-voiced NPC, just to remind everyone who's really in charge (i.e. it's the Power Rating system that rules all, not the story).

 

This talk about "pacing" and "progression" regarding the Power Rating system leads me to believe they're reducing the grind or at least better managing the grind, so that you're doing it between chapters of the story, not between the paragraphs in the novel, since it's a licensed product where people just want to experience the world of Warhammer 40,000, not this Power Rating grind mechanic.  I'll double-check on June 20th with a new character and share any changes here.

 

UPDATE: I'm already seeing the changes and I need to test with a totally new character, but so far so good.  They seem to be fixing this issue in multiple ways rather than just one.  They have removed the gatekeeping mechanic that forces you to grind, while also being more generous with loot so you're ready for the next chapter.  For people who want to explore life as an Inquisitor or just play a 40k game through the story, I think we're there now.  POSSIBLE BUG with existing characters, more in a later post below, which they actually fixed in near real-time.

 

 

+++ "Faster Gameplay": making certain classes more playable +++

 

 

Changing gameplay is a tricky thing.  I actually like the gameplay as is.  However, I think this is a net-positive as it makes all the classes more attractive (rather than just the Assassin).

 

Spoiler

In my initial review of the game, I described Inquisitor: Martyr as less Diablo III and more Dawn of War II, something I later found was in alignment with what the devs had in mind, who always referred to it as a tactical action roleplaying game.  Instead of just reacting to combat, you're actually planning out a whole sequence in advance, which piece of cover you're leaping over first with your power sword, then which big enemy to focus on, then how you're rolling out of combat behind which pillar, at what point you whip out your sniper rifle to kite the boss characters out of the room with.

 

If that sounds like fun for a strategic gamer like you, there's a problem...only 1 class actually plays like that, the Assassin.  Her speed is not just good for offense, but also for defense, to the point she has her own WASD dodge roll mechanic that lets her zip in and out of combat.  The other 2 classes, the Psyker or Crusader, just walk into a room and hope to either melt all the enemies 1st or outlast them with power armour respectively.  The Assassin doesn't need faster gameplay, but I think the other 2 classes do.

 

The devs are changing the entire gameplay, but it's like one of those changes to the meta that so specifically buffs weaker units that I think it's more of a re-balance mechanic.  I'm going to try to play these other non-Assassin classes just to get a feel, then try them again post-June 20th to see the differences.

 

UPDATE: Definite improvements in certain areas that I experienced in the few hours I got to play so far.  Everything just feels more fluid.  However, it's not so drastic as to change the meta; for example, melee still seems to be preferable to ranged combat...unless you're the Psyker, which seemed to be the biggest winner in this massive update.  It's like the whole meta has changed while certain things have been buffed, some builds have had a bigger improvement than others, but all are better off.  It's not just the player characters, but also the enemies have been modified to be more interesting; for example, one enemy that was just a damage sponge now just has Nurgle worms pop out of him after receiving so much damage (reminiscent to an enemy type in Diablo 3), just to mix things up a bit, and requires more tactical awareness than just hitting him (like when I see he's about to pop, I'm already preparing my AoE radius hopping poison move on top of where the Nurgle worms will appear).  I need to play more but the game no longer feels slow by default, but retains a more tactical feel than Diablo 3.

 

 

+++ "Co-Op Campaign": how was this not a feature from the start? +++

 

 

I played the story campaign solo.  That's how I'd've probably preferred it.  But I assumed people could play it co-op from the start.  They're finally making it that way.

 

Spoiler

So apparently the story campaign...which is probably what most people just want to play because it's an Inquisition game, wasn't multiplayer in what's supposed to be an online experience.  I'm not even going to comment on that, but I'll quote the Inquisitor who called me for an urgent mission but I needed to go and grind gear beforehand, "You took your time, but..."  At least it's here now.

 

I started this post with the point that games are released unfinished then they patch themselves to how they should've been in the 1st place.  I think this is an exact example of that.  I honestly love the game, but that's just goofy.

 

UPDATE: So it turns out, as soon as your character gets past the tutorial stages (when you're on a friendly safe ship), you can start playing co-op.

 

 

+++++

 

 

A year ago I said of Inquisitor: Martyr to wait for a few patches before purchase.  That milestone has a (delayed) specific date now: June 20th.  I'll post any other thoughts here.

 

UPDATE: The game seems way more polished and refined now, still with some bugs that's expected with a major update.  It's not Diablo 3 or Path of Exiles or another game, as it retains it's semi-tactical elements, and actually improves on them by giving you more tactical flexibility via more speed in things like movement and switching weapons, shorter cooldowns, etc.  I would not say as it's a must-have, in the same way I wouldn't say Dawn of War II was a must-have as it was a Real-Time Strategy and Roleplaying Game hybrid that I personally enjoyed but can't say if it's everyone's cup of tea, but I'm enjoying Martyr more now.  I'm just waiting for them to patch the inevitable bugs with a major revamp like this.

 

FURTHER UPDATE: A few of those inevitable bugs have come up and the devs are fixing them at speed.  Took care of one I saw over the release weekend.

 

Shortly after that, there will be a big new expansion DownLoadable Content, on top of the little episodic DLCs that have come out (those episodes can actually be paid for with in-game currency rather than real money, if you're willing to grind for it).  It is going to introduce a new class that currently has not been announced yet:

 

 

And no, we have no idea what the new Inquisitor class will be

Edited by N1SB, 26 June 2019 - 05:21 AM.

[PeteySödes]

Played this a ton on console and really enjoyed it. Super deep rpg elements and scope too that I found crazy impressive.

Best 40k I’ve played since Dow2 and Space Marine.

[N1SB]

Played this a ton on console and really enjoyed it.

 

Actually, I've been meaning to ask your advice on this, how are the controls on a console gamepad please?

 

I'm playing on PC, but I have an Xbox One controller connected.  I enjoy the Assassin on Mouse & Keyboard, but I'm thinking if I played a Psyker or Crusader maybe it'll be more comfortable on gamepad and it'll be a totally different experience.

[PeteySödes]

 

Played this a ton on console and really enjoyed it.

 

Actually, I've been meaning to ask your advice on this, how are the controls on a console gamepad please?

 

I'm playing on PC, but I have an Xbox One controller connected.  I enjoy the Assassin on Mouse & Keyboard, but I'm thinking if I played a Psyker or Crusader maybe it'll be more comfortable on gamepad and it'll be a totally different experience.

 

 

It's ok I think, not amazing but not frustrating either though. I didn't play D3 on console so this is my first game like this to play in the format but its better than I expected honestly.

[Black_Knight]

I never got around to playing it, prefering to buy Mechanicus instead which I do not regret. Everyone I saw play it made it look so slow, I have gotten too used to Diablo 3.

[Aarik]

Thanks for posting!  I've been waiting for an update like this before purchasing the game.  Hopefully it will be worth the wait.

[Battybattybats]

I’d heard (via YouTube videos so not sure how reliable the info) that the new class is a Mechanicus inquisitor with mechadendrites and a pet-master gameplay style. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been very excited for the dlc.

Certainly we can see the square cogteeth on the shoulder armour in that image, red robes with white cogteeth edging and I’ve seen a larger version of that image with mechadendrites.

[N1SB]

I never got around to playing it, prefering to buy Mechanicus instead which I do not regret. Everyone I saw play it made it look so slow, I have gotten too used to Diablo 3.

 

I ended up putting more game hours into Inquisitor than Mechanicus...but all that proves might be that Inquisitor is really that grindy!

 

Speaking of Diablo 3, I main'd the Demon Hunter.  My Assassin Inquisitor has the equivalent of the Barbarian's Leap, the Monk's dashing punch, and an escape move even better than the Demon Hunter's Smoke Screen with the run-away-fast mod.  I sequence those with maybe a slash in between, it's faster than Diablo 3, I'm zipping everywhere!  Then anything else, including just regular shooting with an Assassin, it's slooow...at least for now.  And it's worse for even the other classes imho.

 

But it's a good point, between now and the 20th, I'll patch my Diablo 3 just to get a feel for it, because it serves as a comparative baseline/gauge for Inquisitor 2.0.

 

I’d heard (via YouTube videos so not sure how reliable the info) that the new class is a Mechanicus inquisitor with mechadendrites and a pet-master gameplay style. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been very excited for the dlc.

Certainly we can see the square cogteeth on the shoulder armour in that image, red robes with white cogteeth edging and I’ve seen a larger version of that image with mechadendrites.

 

Hmmm...Brother Bats, I suspect you might be onto something.  Those red robes sure look familiar somehow.

[Black_Knight]

I mained the wizard which is probably a small problem too, zipping about and blowing stuff up all the time, oh the days of freeze mage before they nerfed it. One second blinks to dodge boss attacks which would kill you in one hit.

 

The videos I watched just seemed to be mobs streaming in one at a time in a long line with a bolter taking them out 1-2 at a time and that is REALLY slow to watch. When they brought out the Pyker it looked even worse with you getting a few spells off before returning to normal weapons. I just believe the Warhammer Universe was probably one of the harder universes to fit into this ARPG genre, you need it to be fast and destroying tons and tons of enemies and there is only so far you can go before the setting suffers for the mechanics of the game. It would work with space Marines though against hordes but Inquisitors are not front line soldiers they are investigators and infiltrators who can hold their own against a few people.

 

Now if they had made it similar to Baldur's Gate where there are less encounters but more questing I think it would of been something to behold. Running around a hive world questing with great battles which are few and far between but HUGE in scope(Holding the line against 1000s of cultists or Genestealers with traps and level mechanics to help). I have not read an Inquisitor Story where they take on the horde and kill them all, they always have a McGuffin to help them or an objective that defeats the enemy. The thing that makes me love Inquisitors is the actual story leading up to those final battles, the battles are the icing on the cake.

 

The game looks great, runs a tad slow but honestly that doesn't bother me when you nail the setting which they did(I think most of us remember the original Crysis, that did not run at 60fps when it came out). I just think they got the genre of the game wrong for the setting. I will buy it eventually but I cannot buy it at anywhere near full price, too much competition, especially this year with so many AAA games of franchises I am invested in(Wolfenstein/Doom/PC Halo Franchise etc etc) not to mention Board games :curse. I need to find a huge suitcase of money to support my hobby.

Edited by Black_Knight, 01 June 2019 - 01:39 PM.

[N1SB]

Those are good points, I think I see where you're coming from.  Like we were talking about Mechanicus as well...that game actually has those exploration/investigation rooms in between bouts of combat.

 

The strange thing is, they could've added a similar exploration/investigation in between bouts of combat in Inquisitor.  They actually have cogitators (computer terminals), trap turrets, alarms, wall servitors, etc., so they could seriously insert little text options in the middle of a mission.  If you chose poorly then your next fight would have some disadvantage, like doors lock behind you and poison gas fills the room or something.  If you chose wisely the enemies would have been lured away by a false alarm you set up, or they get gassed before you enter, so that you might only find some Chaos Space Marines and Ogryns (as the normal cultists died), etc.

 

They do have these Priority Assignments that's random proceduraly-generated choose-your-own-adventure type things.  As a Radical I literally chose an option where I let a cult leader go, just to track him back to the cult hideout.  That's actually my favourite part of the game, if they added elements like that in a combat mission itself that'd be really great.

 

As it stands...maybe Inquisitor feels more like an Assassinorum game, at least to me...but I'm biased because I'm playing an Assassin.  However, that might better fit an action RPG game.

[Black_Knight]

Mechanicus was very good as a base, I believe they are building upon it now but it was a little easier by design You are not really supposed to loose Tech Priests in that game compared to games like Xcom where you WILL lose people but I think it comes down to how they designed the hit/miss that frankly puts me off Xcom. By reducing damage rather than having shots miss completely it feels fairer but it does make it easier. I really hope they continue with Mechanicus and add a few more stories to the mix but who knows what their licence allows them to do.

 

I think the rumours of a third Baldur's Gate have got me itchy for an RPG within the Warhammer Universe. I don't think there has been a RPG yet? Card games, strategy, Third Person etc but nothing like a Netherwinter or Pillars of Eternity. I really need to stop thinking of the possibilities and go and read my last three books of the Beast Arises, I need my Warhammer Story fix.

[Aarik]

Now if they had made it similar to Baldur's Gate where there are less encounters but more questing I think it would of been something to behold. Running around a hive world questing with great battles which are few and far between but HUGE in scope(Holding the line against 1000s of cultists or Genestealers with traps and level mechanics to help). I have not read an Inquisitor Story where they take on the horde and kill them all, they always have a McGuffin to help them or an objective that defeats the enemy. The thing that makes me love Inquisitors is the actual story leading up to those final battles, the battles are the icing on the cake.

 

 

 

I think the rumours of a third Baldur's Gate have got me itchy for an RPG within the Warhammer Universe. I don't think there has been a RPG yet? Card games, strategy, Third Person etc but nothing like a Netherwinter or Pillars of Eternity. I really need to stop thinking of the possibilities and go and read my last three books of the Beast Arises, I need my Warhammer Story fix.

 

Agree 100%.  I've always thought that a real RPG set in the 40k universe made by a good studio would be can't-miss proposition.  And it would drive a ton of new people into the hobby by making the setting more mainstream.  I'm actually really surprised that it doesn't seem like GW is making this a top priority.

[Black_Knight]

I think its more down to the fact that no one has gone to them with it, I do not get the feeling that they actively go out looking for developers but wait for them to come to them.

[Reyner]

The game is down to £31 on Xbox Store this week if you have gold. Is it worth picking it up at that price or wait a while longer? 

 

Normal edition: 

https://www.microsof...vot:overviewtab

 

Imperium edition:

https://www.microsof...vot:overviewtab

 

Deluxe edition:

https://www.microsof...n/bwc8k2drtd4h?

ocid=AID681541_aff_7794_1246483&cid=msft_web_collection&activetab=pivot:overviewtab

[MegaVolt87]

The game has issues. I been in this since beta. I would advise people to wait and see how the free update 2.0 pans out before getting the expansion if you already own it. Prospective players- wait at least a month or two to see how it all shakes out. Game isn't really worth it at its current price. People are giving it a pass because of the IP, judging it to ARPG standards and others in the genre it definitely falls short currently. 

[Marshal Vespasian]

All I ever wanted from life was an isometric turn based tactical Inquisitor RPG in the vein of the newer Shadowrun games, but maybe with more itneresting combat mechanics. Maybe destructible environment.

This is at least a step in the direction I wanted, sadly the early gameplay looked not up to snuff and so I went and played XCOM instead. From the developers of this game I played a bit of the van helsing game and didn't care for it. Hopefully this update will make the game worthwhile. I'd love to play a 2 player coop campaign with one of my mates.

[N1SB]

Hi Fraters, just following through, it looks like the patch is out and I'm downloading the 7 GB update now.  Imma give it a spin, I just played it a bit last 2 nights.

 

Since my last post and now, a number of semi-related things happened in the broader arena of video games in general:

 

> Chaosbane, a Warhammer Fantasy-licensed action RPG, came out...and it was panned for being too close to Diablo 3

> Baldur's Gate III was announced

> And I, upon listening to you guys, actually played Diablo 3 for the 1st time in years

 

Diablo 3 is not a perfect game, but aside from being one of the most popular PC titles (I think it still ranks 5th, right after the Sims), it's actually interesting to look at because it's constantly trying to update itself to meet rising player expectations.  Playing it initially 7 years ago and looking at it now, I can see the delta, the difference.

 

The key thing I noticed...in this age where we talk about features, content, speed...was actually pacing (which is a little different from speed).  Diablo 3 never has "dead air", i.e. time when nothing is happening, of more than 3 to 5 minutes.  This is true even in its original form.  Either you encounter a new monster with some lore voice-over or your follower comments on something or you stumble on a sidequest or you get a piece of fancy loot (they've become increasingly generous in this regard btw).  SomeTHING is always going on in Diablo 3.  Not quite the same with Inquisitor: Martyr to be honest.

 

+++++

 

When I worked in the video game industry (I probably learned more there than anywhere else) I met a guy who worked on an indie RTS game and he said his biggest challenge was to keep a game about 30 minutes long, because that's about the time when he expects most players start getting bored, WITHOUT implementing an actual time limit.  Instead, he would design maps where all the resources run out about 30 minutes no matter how well/badly you did, forcing people to basically win within that time just to end a game.  Aside from smart design, that's something that needed lots of playtesting to try.

 

Patch is about done, will post later, with 12 hours at most.

Edited by N1SB, 20 June 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[PeteySödes]

Just PC for now or console too?

[N1SB]

Oh...for the PC, I don't know about the console.  When I do, I'll let you know, good question.

 

UPDATE - I've patched 7 GB, then another 7 MB like a quick hotfix to some bugs in the patch...and the server's still down for the PC version.  So this is delayed, too.  I've searched for more info on consoles specifically in the meantime, but they've been mum so far, I'm afraid.

Edited by N1SB, 20 June 2019 - 05:36 PM.

[N1SB]

Played a bit, gotta keep this short, but I joined another player in reporting a bug to the Steam forum.  Trouble linking Steam images here, but you can see a screenshot here:

 

https://steamuserima...4F1D3408DA6C01/

 

They introduced a new, more streamlined progression system, but it seems to be the source of a bug.  They've removed the gatekeeping "power level" mechanic which forces you to grind with a level system.  However, here my character level and my progress doesn't seem to match, suggesting something failed to register.

 

What I'm showing here is my character level is 35...but my progress suggests I should be halfway past 36 already.  Not a complaint, not whining, just passing on information there seems to be a bug with existing characters (maybe not new ones, so perhaps a legacy issue) to the devs due to the revamped progression.

 

Probably a few more things like this, but overall I'm happy with the 2.0 Patch.  Lots of improvements here and there.

 

UPDATE: Wow, within 4 to 5 hours after I posted in a post, a Dev got back to us and asked further questions.  Outstanding response time.

 

FURTHER UPDATE: within an hour or 2 of that, they fixed the problem, that was fast.  I'll just assume my character actually had a Mind Cleansing, but she recovered her memories and is back to normal now.

Edited by N1SB, 21 June 2019 - 11:42 PM.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Will be Monitoring this thread, I am interested in maybe getting in on the Inquisitor Action.

So Thank you for keeping us up to date and Also the comparison to diablo III.

Edited by Marshal Vespasian, 21 June 2019 - 11:53 AM.

[Son of Sacrifice]

Almost pulled the trigger on the PS4 version several times. I think I'd be smart to wait another 6 months.

[MegaVolt87]

Will be Monitoring this thread, I am interested in maybe getting in on the Inquisitor Action.

So Thank you for keeping us up to date and Also the comparison to diablo III.

 

It isn't quite as quick as D3 for character movement, but pretty close if you invest in mvt skill passives. The leveling is quite slow, post campaign ( I am lvl 75 right now, 100 is cap). There are issues with new higher end gear not rolling stats/ correct stats. End mission rewards not calculating properly (fate + exp). The added content is nothing revolutionary, its the standard benchmark type of content for end game other ARPG's have. Nothing wrong with that, my issues are the content needs a lot of bugfixing ASAP. If you have a higher lvl min/maxed legacy character, you will be waiting a while for meaningful upgrades as your min/maxed old relics gear are still good. I am still using my lvl 60 relics, just because all the stats are perfect for my build. Starting from scratch, no worries the gear progression will be relatively fine otherwise. 

 

TLDR- Game has improved, wait for a sale and the bug fixes before buying. Even with the new content still too expensive for what it is full price. 

Edited by MegaVolt87, 24 June 2019 - 07:49 AM.

[N1SB]

I agree with the above, Inquisitor: Martyr with the 2.0 Patch is pretty much the game it should've been from the start.  It's a tactical RPG even though they tried to position itself as a typical action RPG.  By speeding up the action a bit, IMHO they bridged the gap between player expectations and what they wanted to make.

 

Thus I agree to wait for a Steam Sale (as I play on the PC).  Like I'd suggest putting it on a wishlist, wait for the next inevitable Summer or Warhammer-themed sale.

 

EDIT - as of this writing, they're still updating the game in response to player feedback from the 2.0 Patch, lots of post-patch tweaks.  Case in point, just now there's another 12 MB download, a quick hotfix.  So clearly some things need fixing, but I'm glad they're actually being fixed.

 

 

+++ 1 minute of Assassin gameplay +++

 

 

I toyed with many builds, didn't really play that much into any one, so I'm far from an expert.  Too many other games, too many miniatures.  But for my main character, I didn't necessarily feel it was slower than, say, Diablo 3, but only because it was the fastest, most agile, most dynamic of the classes.  I wanted to make a short video.

 

Please turn on the Closed Captions/Subtitles with the [CC] button at the bottom right of the video to see my tactical considerations in 1 minute of actual gameplay:

 

 

Btw, this wasn't my finest moment.  Everything was going wrong, I was luring in another mob by mistake, suddenly more Word Bearers showed up from nowhere, it wasn't even a boss fight.  But as a result I thought it was a fairer reflection of what it actually feels like to play this game even as I gaffed.

Edited by N1SB, 24 June 2019 - 05:06 PM.

[MegaVolt87]

Just a PSA, the game is at a 50% discount due to the steam summer sale. I think the sale ends 10th July.