Some Thoughts on Competitive Custodes Primarily "Mono-Build"

[Prot]

I just got back from an event... an ITC, 6 round event. (Man it sure is grueling that last round. Something about going past 5 games that just seems to burn me out.) But I attended the event with my freshly painted Chaos Black Legion. Basically I took what I liked from the new models, and went for a shot at best painted. So since that is a "Chaos Topic" I won't get into details, but that's why I won't do a breakdown of games.

 

The reason I mention this is because as some of you may know, I almost brought Custodes but could not get the list finished to a standard I could be happy with an attend the tournament in good faith. But in every game, every match up I had, I would go through the motions of playing it out with my Custodes. In every game I would ask myself:

 

- How does this scenario suit Custodes?

- How good/bad is this opponent match up for Custodes?

- God forbid I actually ally, what would have been the most impactful, single ally I would/could have used in this matchup?

- How different would by Objectives be using Custodes?

- How different would I play in regard to aggressive/Kill-mode vs. gaining points in these games?

 

Anyway here's the situation; I'm hoping to get some help/feedback on playing Custodes competitively. For the sake of completeness I do NOT want this to be an "ITC" thread. There's a lot of ways of playing 40K competitively, and I only dabble in ITC personally when I have to. But if 'advice' is pertinent to one style of competitive play, then please do say so.

 

Now that I have the preamble out of the way, let me try to get some thoughts out while the entire tournament is still fresh on my mind:

 

- Custodes MUST play the denial card. Agree? Disagree? 

I found in most games (including test games leading up to the event) that my only chances have to -start- with seeing what my opponent's objectives are, and to stop them firstly, and execute my own secondly. So that could mean.... not allowing a kill, or not allowing an objective cap. (Much easier to do with this, than lets say.. .a chaff army.)

 

- The Custodes army is hindered by lack of footprint. How can this be mitigated? Does every list need to have 8+ bikers to work (without allies)? 

 

- It's too easy to give it away. Custodes at these events are typically playing extremely maximized, destructive armies. Exposing a 'bike' or a unit too early just to get a kill can often lead to a game changing complete loss of manpower.

 

- Covering your zone. In most scenarios the games can be (to a degree) lost by losing your own zone. Do you believe Custodes can work by simply surviving and waiting it out? Or do you go for the gusto and rip into an offensive mind set and try to take away the opponent's zone?

 

- Telemon(s) and other shiny Gold Guns. With such a small model count I had tremendous trouble using 2 Telemons. The idea being 1 survives. I fought so many armies that can peel a Telemon a turn with little effort: Eldar flyer spam, IG, Knights/Shield Captains, etc were all such matchups that seemed to reinforce my playtesting leading up to the event. 

 

- Deep Strike is Mandatory? Too many games the opponent sat on his hands in his backfield. Often with the lightest of junk simply because of the lack of deep strike threat. Is it more valuable to start with something in reserve (like Allarus?) than start with an extra heavy on the table?

 

 

So there's a start. I am open to any ideas as I don't know to really make this project work. In all fairness my Black Legion (which I consider about a... 6 out of 10 in competitiveness) could annihilate my Custodes in almost every match up. 

[rcoon]

I don't have ample experience but I've been playing a lot more competitive lately, and you're right on the deep strike thing. I must say most competitive armies are either all about those obscene alpha strikes or just burying you in bodies, and Custodes, for me so far, cannot compete against both.

 

The bike list is fantastic at horde armies like IG, Orks etc, but terrible against these new pure backfield gunline lists I keep going against. Conversely the Erik Trock Warden list is AMAZING against alpha strike armies like the generic Knight list, not to mention the Chaos soup that runs Ahriman and DPs with Warp time with a healthy serving of Death Guard and other assorted demon soup. Being able to keep your precious can openers in the sky for a turn and not get shot/warp-time-into-melee-death on the first turn is life saving.

 

I've played a fair few games using either mass bikes or mass wardens with many golden boots on the ground, and I cannot for the life of me find a happy middle ground that deals with the variety of lists I come up against. At this stage I have to pick one or the other and hope my matchups and objectives aren't terrible - speaking of which, bad objectives have cost me games numerous times. During one game my opponent won with A SINGLE TECHPRIEST ON THE BATTLEFIELD REMAINING while I had about 800 points in units, but he buried him so deep in ruins and cover I could not table him in time.

 

I've really gone off of jetbikes recently, which sucks since I own a hell of a lot now. They're great at killing chaff and... that's really it. I highly dislike putting them in melee because they rarely achieve anything of value. The best things to kill with them in melee are already dead from 120 hurricane bolter shots. My footstodes warden list runs 2 jetbike captains simply because they're great at dealing with that occasional backdoor deepstrike and denying objectives - also they're stupidly hard to kill. That said, aside from chaff, my jetbikes rarely actually kill anything by themselves.

 

I personally don't see Telemon's as a viable option for truly competitive Custodes lists. I have however switched out my Allarus to Aquilons because IMO they do the Allarus job but better, and I personally hate the Ballistus Grenade Launcher with a passion aside from the Concussion Grenade Strategem. Aquilons are the unholy babies of Allarus and Jetbikes and witnessing them in ranged and melee is just a beautiful thing to behold.

[Prot]

Some good food for thought with the bikers and Termie choices.

 

The thing about Bikes that I never bought into is the idea that they can take anything on.  I think they're one of those units that if you're playing a 'casual' game they come off as super strong, but what I'm finding is on a 'bad' table against any army (more common lately) with damage weaponry, I think they can be a detriment.... And by multi damage I even mean Ork Lootas.

 

I do like bikes though just because Stooping Dive (especially post FAQ) makes them a quasi-deep strike thread. But I've always believed the repercussions of taking a massive amount of them had too large a negative.

 

Telemons are something I started simply because the model blew me away, and this was pre beta changes and I loved it. Now it feels fairly ordinary and hard to protect. 

 

I finally got my first Caladius tank in th email and I don't know if it's worth it to put 1 in or not. 

 

Then the Termies... I've never play tested the other type, but the Allarus with the deep strike off the banner have just done so much for me. 

 

My problem is I like to play a competitive list that puts the power in my hands to deal with anything.  Maybe that's just not realistic in mono Custodes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I believe Custodes need another faction to be truly competitive... I run a Vanguard Detachment with a Blood Angels Battalion and it has been working for me. It’s nice to have a decent amount of CPs plus I love the Angels of Death. There’s lots of solid combos here besides SM in general.

 

In regards to the Telemon I deep strike mine if the opponent has long range firepower that can nuke it. Worst case when it arrives the opponent has to dedicate significant amounts of firepower to get rid it which takes the heat off other units. Deep striking in general is a big deal, I like to have at least three units in reserve and stagger their arrival.

 

I think Trajann is a must take unit for Custodes he is such a great buffing unit. A Praetor with the -1 to hit banner is another must take unit.

[Prot]

I believe Custodes need another faction to be truly competitive... I run a Vanguard Detachment with a Blood Angels Battalion and it has been working for me. It’s nice to have a decent amount of CPs plus I love the Angels of Death. There’s lots of solid combos here besides SM in general.

 

In regards to the Telemon I deep strike mine if the opponent has long range firepower that can nuke it. Worst case when it arrives the opponent has to dedicate significant amounts of firepower to get rid it which takes the heat off other units. Deep striking in general is a big deal, I like to have at least three units in reserve and stagger their arrival.

 

I think Trajann is a must take unit for Custodes he is such a great buffing unit. A Praetor with the -1 to hit banner is another must take unit.

 

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate here:

 

If you are playing a single Telemon, and you are deepstriking it, is it really worth the points to go up to a Telemon over... let's say a basic Contemptor? This is what I always used to do before I got any of the Forgeworld stuff and I found the psychological effect was still there. 

 

In the ITC event I faced two very large foot print armies where they would have loved to deny me such a large base in deep strike, but in both of those cases having a deep strike threat of any sort would have been huge.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me the Telemon is the closest thing we have to a Knight so yeah the extra points over a Contemptor is definitely worth it.

[shanewatts]

I think Custodes by nature play the denial card, and by ensuring that you are playing to your strengths.

 

I agree that positioning a use of terrain is very critical to Custodes, by being an elite army taking unnecessary risks is a problem.

 

With a low model count, footprint is an issue, and makes initial deployment that much more important I think.

 

As far as covering your zone, that truly depends on your army composition (if you don't have any slow backfield units, you don't really need to worry too much) and the placement of objectives (if 1 or none back there, why worry?)

 

In regards to Telemons, I think I need to echo BBF here, if you are concerned with losing it turn 1 you deepstrike it. As far as it being the same as a contemptor in this way, their damage output is entirely different, and depending on loadout where you end up dropping a telemon is almost a non issue (storm cannons.)

 

In regards to needing to deepstrike, that is entirely dependent on your army comp and the deployment type. Having the threat of deepstrike is nice, but not always beneficial. To look at bikes for a moment, deepstriking them vs a gunline while it messes with your opponents mind, it also offers them a chance to screen out where you put them down turn 2/3, and most of the time, turn 2 you are closer than 9" away from the enemy anyway.

 

Back to your initial point/question about mono vs non, I think every army that has access to allies, is better augmenting with allies than playing "pure." Having the capability to shore up your weaknesses is huge.

[shanewatts]

Side note: Right now I am still running a BA battalion alongside my Custodes Bikes.

 

It takes a bit more finesse, but is very versatile and can do quite well vs most armies.

[Prot]

To me the Telemon is the closest thing we have to a Knight so yeah the extra points over a Contemptor is definitely worth it.

 

Keep in mind we are talking 160 vs. approximately  277 (Caestus and Storm cannon, a hair less with dual Storms but horrid CC ability). 

 

The Contemptor is a smaller footprint for deepstrike. Both are similar in stature... 4 wounds difference? 2+/5++/6+++ vs 2+/4++/6+++  Starting at BS/WS 2. 

 

Not to get into a math debate, and I truly realize the Contemptor is the ugly duckling here to the sexy Telemon, but I've been finding it a bit over priced if I'm being purely honest. Sure the Telemon can dance, and all my friends are jealous, but the Contemptor is a great cook, and I could introduce her to my parents.

 

 

Side note: Right now I am still running a BA battalion alongside my Custodes Bikes.

 

It takes a bit more finesse, but is very versatile and can do quite well vs most armies.

 

I know you've done okay with that set up, but I imagine you might be dissapointed with it to some degree? I think you did great at BAO? But it feels like you've had mixed results? Is the Blood Angel component really doing that much work for you?

 

I think Custodes by nature play the denial card, and by ensuring that you are playing to your strengths.

 

I agree that positioning a use of terrain is very critical to Custodes, by being an elite army taking unnecessary risks is a problem.

 

With a low model count, footprint is an issue, and makes initial deployment that much more important I think.

 

As far as covering your zone, that truly depends on your army composition (if you don't have any slow backfield units, you don't really need to worry too much) and the placement of objectives (if 1 or none back there, why worry?)

 

In regards to Telemons, I think I need to echo BBF here, if you are concerned with losing it turn 1 you deepstrike it. As far as it being the same as a contemptor in this way, their damage output is entirely different, and depending on loadout where you end up dropping a telemon is almost a non issue (storm cannons.)

 

In regards to needing to deepstrike, that is entirely dependent on your army comp and the deployment type. Having the threat of deepstrike is nice, but not always beneficial. To look at bikes for a moment, deepstriking them vs a gunline while it messes with your opponents mind, it also offers them a chance to screen out where you put them down turn 2/3, and most of the time, turn 2 you are closer than 9" away from the enemy anyway.

 

Back to your initial point/question about mono vs non, I think every army that has access to allies, is better augmenting with allies than playing "pure." Having the capability to shore up your weaknesses is huge.

 

Not to talk pure ITC here, because a lot of competitive environments do have some aspect of zone coverage for bonuses and/or objective holding. I'm trying to figure out a way to do both with Custodes. So pre-beta changes I found a single shooty Telemon could kick serious butt. Now not so much... I had to shore it up with a second.Together they do okay, but are still easily overwhelmed. -1 to hit is horrible, combined with damage modifiers, and something nasty like Jinx.

 

(I feel like I spent half the bloody weekend 'jinxed'). 

 

I won't leave home without a Vindicare now. I would probably only use the Celuxes against Chaos smite spam. 

 

So when I talk about deep strike giving your opponent a problem... what I mean is I've noticed in competitive play the second you take deep strike off the list, there is this incredible lack of concern for what the opponent will hold a home objective with PLUS their overall deployment changes a ton. This is a problem for us....

 

So I've decided I have to keep my opponent's honest with deep strike. I only play 4 bikers + 1 Sc on Dawneagle. I don't think that's enough to play it the way you are, which is a -considerably- higher deep threat once you include Stooping Dive/fly etc. (It was only recently I found out that Stooping Dive did combine with Fly.) 

 

(as a side note: I found out something critical that I did not know before this ITC event.... you cannot Heroic Intervention if you can't make base contact. This is subtle but something I did not know. Before I was doing the 3" move (in the case of a character) and then if I was within an inch of the target I thought that was legal. So understanding that is illegal was a pretty big headshake moment for me this weekend. Oh well you learn something new everyday...)

 

Still trying to find a way to wedge my new Caldius in, AND Allarus... while keeping a Custodes Batallion. lol

Edited June 4, 2019 by Prot

[Lazy Soldier]

 

 

(as a side note: I found out something critical that I did not know before this ITC event.... you cannot Heroic Intervention if you can't make base contact. This is subtle but something I did not know. Before I was doing the 3" move (in the case of a character) and then if I was within an inch of the target I thought that was legal. So understanding that is illegal was a pretty big headshake moment for me this weekend. Oh well you learn something new everyday...)

 

 

 

can you explain this to me? Reading the BRB it just says that to heroically intervene you just have to end up closer to the nearest enemy? 

 

I feel like you got messed with there, or else I am missing something which is entirely possible  

 

Not trying to derail the convo, just curous if I have been doing it wrong this whole edtion......

Edited June 4, 2019 by Lazy Soldier

[sultansean]

 

 

 

(as a side note: I found out something critical that I did not know before this ITC event.... you cannot Heroic Intervention if you can't make base contact. This is subtle but something I did not know. Before I was doing the 3" move (in the case of a character) and then if I was within an inch of the target I thought that was legal. So understanding that is illegal was a pretty big headshake moment for me this weekend. Oh well you learn something new everyday...)

 

 

 

can you explain this to me? Reading the BRB it just says that to heroically intervene you just have to end up closer to the nearest enemy? 

 

 

 

Yeah the rules in the BRB say:

 

 

Any of your characters within 3" of an enemy model may perform a heroic intervention. Any that do so can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

 

 

And I checked the FAQ and it is not changed in there. I have had my own unit block out a character from being able to move within 1" of an enemy within 3" but there is no requirement to base to base. 

 

 

 

In reply to your main topic, after a few games and watching some battle-reports trying to "get good" with Custodes, my one thought is that Custodes require you to be flexible. A lot of your thoughts are things like "must play denial" or "must deepstrike" and I think that more important is to look at the matchup and think about how you are going to win and how your opponent is going to try to win pre-game and THEN make that decision. The deepstrike strat is nice, because you don't have to decide pre-game if you are going to use it.

 

To address your points individually. 

 

 

1. Denial Game: Not always going to work, Custodes will have a very hard time in ITC, preventing an army from holding 1 or holding more. Which means that you are probably going to need to kill more on some turns, which is certainly possible by denying an enemy any kills, deep striking can help this.

 

2. Footprint: No good answer, other than being able to control the center of the board so you can move out from there and project power over a wider radius. Other helpful things are long range shooting (caladius and Telemon) and deep striking units (Terminators)

 

3. Crippling Losses: It is easy to give it away but Custodes also have the lethality to swing it back. They are a glass hammer armour that's T5 with 2+ saves because of the low numbers.

 

4: Zoning: I think Custodes need to be used offensively. It's one of the issues with Telemons. With double storm cannons I want them still and shooting, but I need  them moving up so they can be protected from getting touched and suffer the slight loss in firepower.

 

5: Big Guns: I think we need them and we need the redundancy. One plus of Custodes is that guns which are shooting heavy support are also guns that want to be shooting infantry and bikes. Yes you lost a telemon on the first turn, but how crippling would that firepower have been directed at your other units?

 

 

6: Deep Strike: I think if you are not running bikes, then you need to have some Deepstrike to pressure the opponents backfield.   

Edited June 4, 2019 by sultansean

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No truly elite army can initially win the footprint game within the game. What you do is win by attrition over the course of the game. GW has given horde all the advantages this edition.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Telemon was on top table of BAO... nuff said.

[Prot]

 

Yeah the rules in the BRB say:

 

 

 

 

Any of your characters within 3" of an enemy model may perform a heroic intervention. Any that do so can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

 

 

And I checked the FAQ and it is not changed in there. I have had my own unit block out a character from being able to move within 1" of an enemy within 3" but there is no requirement to base to base. 

 

 

Right there in what you wrote is the answer. Any of your characters within 3". In other words: In order to even initiate a Heroic Intervention, this will result in (most times) bringing your model into contact with the closest model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4: Zoning: I think Custodes need to be used offensively. It's one of the issues with Telemons. With double storm cannons I want them still and shooting, but I need  them moving up so they can be protected from getting touched and suffer the slight loss in firepower.

 

5: Big Guns: I think we need them and we need the redundancy. One plus of Custodes is that guns which are shooting heavy support are also guns that want to be shooting infantry and bikes. Yes you lost a telemon on the first turn, but how crippling would that firepower have been directed at your other units?

 

 

6: Deep Strike: I think if you are not running bikes, then you need to have some Deepstrike to pressure the opponents backfield.   

 

 

4: Zoning. I agree but it's really, really tough to play linebacker with a Telemon. I find I'm always torn - stay and hold while laying down fire hitting on a 2+, or move up, get involved, stay in the anti hit aura, and even arm him with a Caestus.

 

5: Big Guns: We definitely need them, but 2 Telemons in redundancy might be a mistake in what I'm seeing. I love them, but they don't do NEAR the work they used to. But they could be part of a few models that do a similar role and cause targeting issues for your opponent. A Caladius for example is a bigger ranged threat, but easier to take down. 

 

6: Deep Strike: Bikes... is everyone still running 8+ bikes. Beyond my personal issue of finding it a bit boring, I think you still need deep strike if you don't have more than... let's say 5 bikers (total). Would you guys agree?

 

 

Telemon was on top table of BAO... nuff said.

 

While that's true, it's misleading to just stop there.  There was a Telemon in the list, but that Telemon is sharing targeting duty with a pair of Caladius tanks, a double shooting: Wyvern, Basilisk. There is a total of 8 Custodes models in that army.

 

I think someone shooting at the Telemon in that match up might be playing right into the plans of the Custodes player. It's a much harder target than the Caladius' and IG stuff (which may or may not be visible.) 

 

In a mono-Custodes list the Telemon has to do a ton of heavy lifting. 

 

Right now I'm building a Caldius. While I don't want to soup up, I am trying to get some heat off the Telemon(s) by putting a Caladius in the mix. Eldar and Astra were doing very well at the tournament and I think it's because of the Castelan Knight scare (post FAQ). 

 

I had to face two Flyer spam lists that were very good at taking a list with 1-3 tanks apart. (Again I felt like I was always Jinxed as well which is such a gross power.)

 

Telemon was on top table of BAO... nuff said.

 

 

[shanewatts]

 

A Caladius for example is a bigger ranged threat, but easier to take down. 

 

What makes you think the Caladius is a bigger ranged threat than the Telemon?

 

 

 

Side note: Right now I am still running a BA battalion alongside my Custodes Bikes.

 

It takes a bit more finesse, but is very versatile and can do quite well vs most armies.

 

I know you've done okay with that set up, but I imagine you might be dissapointed with it to some degree? I think you did great at BAO? But it feels like you've had mixed results? Is the Blood Angel component really doing that much work for you? 

 

I have done ok, I wouldn't say I was disappointed with it so much as disappointed in the mistakes I made while playing it. I didn't do nearly as good as I would have liked at BAO 3-3 (54th place out of 150,) granted 3-3 isn't bad. The BA does quite a bit for me mostly focused around taking down toughness 8 and allowing me to cut down on overwatch (Tau.) Effectively one could accomplish the same thing with caladius/telemon instead of the BA, but I found I prefer to melee over shooting.

 

The mistakes I found myself making with the BA was taking bad trades, I would commit the slam cap and the Lib dread and they would die afterwards. I found that most times if I was a little more patient they would destroy what I intended and survive to continue to deal damage.

 

They have a unique place in my list because they can hide in the bikes, giving them turns to move into position as necessary, so they aren't exactly plug n play for all Custodes I feel. 

 

I did manage to redeem my BAO performance this past weekend, taking first place in a 36ish player GT. Same list, just better decision making.

[Prot]

 

 

A Caladius for example is a bigger ranged threat, but easier to take down. 

 

What makes you think the Caladius is a bigger ranged threat than the Telemon?

 

 

 

What makes me think this is the 'Fly' keyword. In my Telemon experiment games I don't have the speed or model count to stop people from tapping it.  If I had a better footprint I think I could block people out of it better (again a negative of being Mono-faction).

 

The Caladius is just a great unit for giving you one shot at taking it down, and if you start to threaten, there is always the option to simply fly away, or sit on ruins (that's a biggie for me).Flying it on top of ruins while exercising Machine Spirit benefits. Heck... leading a charge for bikes? (I haven't tried it)

 

What I am -hoping- is that by having at least one Caladius on the field, it allows me to field one Caestus/Storm Cannon Telemon that won't get shot at much. (It feels like a much tougher nut to crack). Dual Stormcannons used to be the way I played a single one. I'm not so sure anymore. (It's just horrid in CC with that build).

 

This is a side note... but I really like the Caladius model too and I have to love painting what I'm working on or it looks like garbage when I'm done.

 

 

 

I have done ok, I wouldn't say I was disappointed with it so much as disappointed in the mistakes I made while playing it. I didn't do nearly as good as I would have liked at BAO 3-3 (54th place out of 150,) granted 3-3 isn't bad. The BA does quite a bit for me mostly focused around taking down toughness 8 and allowing me to cut down on overwatch (Tau.) Effectively one could accomplish the same thing with caladius/telemon instead of the BA, but I found I prefer to melee over shooting.

 

The mistakes I found myself making with the BA was taking bad trades, I would commit the slam cap and the Lib dread and they would die afterwards. I found that most times if I was a little more patient they would destroy what I intended and survive to continue to deal damage.

 

They have a unique place in my list because they can hide in the bikes, giving them turns to move into position as necessary, so they aren't exactly plug n play for all Custodes I feel. 

 

I did manage to redeem my BAO performance this past weekend, taking first place in a 36ish player GT. Same list, just better decision making.

 

Fair enough. I think 'trades' is a pivotal thing in most of my Custodes games. I think it's a bigger part of the game than most people really talk about. 

 

BA hiding in bikes is certainly potent.

 

I thought you might say more about match ups. In the 6 rounds I played in this weekend I couldn't get my head around some of the match ups, especially the psyker stuff. It made me want a Vindicare simply to pop Psykers. Other match ups were parking lot IG which is still such a big thing in my area.  The 3 Knight/3 Shield Captains/AdMech I faced would have been pretty difficult too. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Prot

[shanewatts]

Ironically enough at BAO, the hard match ups were the games I won. While the easier ones that I expected to win, I lost haha.

[Prot]

That's funny how that happens some times. (I thought my crappy Chaos list was going to get hosed by the 3 Knights/Shield Captains and I nearly tabled him).  

 

So you didn't walk away from that experience thinking, "I need to change this or tweak that in my list" but rather you feel like it was some decisions you made?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Prot I love you so I’m gonna be straight up and just tell you trying to play mono Custodes is an exercise in futility.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"While that's true, it's misleading to just stop there. There was a Telemon in the list, but that Telemon is sharing targeting duty with a pair of Caladius tanks, a double shooting: Wyvern, Basilisk. There is a total of 8 Custodes models in that army.’

 

I disagree any army with multiple fast melee threats will draw heat from Telemon they literally can’t afford to shoot it .

Edited June 5, 2019 by Black Blow Fly

[shanewatts]

That's funny how that happens some times. (I thought my crappy Chaos list was going to get hosed by the 3 Knights/Shield Captains and I nearly tabled him).  

 

So you didn't walk away from that experience thinking, "I need to change this or tweak that in my list" but rather you feel like it was some decisions you made?

 

I really like my list, and I am certain it was my play that messed it up. I think the biggest setback to people have after an event is immediately changing their list. While I agree there is scenarios where this is the case, more often that not I have found it boils down to playing the units/list correctly is the bigger issue.

 

I think the most important thing you can do with a list is get a ton of games in with it (and variety,) before you decide to make changes. This allows you to see how to play it differently, and how it does in more match ups. If after that there is places you still struggle (like T8 for me,) find what you need to fix that, and test that into the dirt haha.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Our lists are very similar. I went undefeated in my league this season and it is very competitive .

[duz_]

Prot I love you so I’m gonna be straight up and just tell you trying to play mono Custodes is an exercise in futility.

I guess my next tournament will be an excercise in futility then! :D

I bet it'll be fun though :)

 

Depends what the goal is? There's probably only a handful of armies than can go top table at large event mono faction

But for local and mid sized tournaments where being top 8 isn't a concern I think full mono is probably do able

 

I'll find out in a couple of weeks I guess

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It depends on the venue, luck of the draw and player skill. Good luck !

[Prot]

Prot I love you so I’m gonna be straight up and just tell you trying to play mono Custodes is an exercise in futility.

 

Haha. Fair enough. I appreciate it.

 

I'm not necessarily looking to win a tournament. It's just an exercise...perhaps in futility. 

 

So here's what happened... last year I went to an ITC GT with what I felt was a 'fun' list but I went 4-1. I'm going to be honest... I hated my last 3 games. The player's I faced at the top tables care waaay too much about ITC points compared to me. This year I brought one of the worst lists I could think of while still having cool models to show off. I had a great time. Great games, and I still did very well battle point wise. 

 

Short version: I've won tournaments. I don't care about placement specifically, but the quality of those games is what matters to me at this stage in my 'competitive' career. :) 

 

But yes... I understand I'm setting myself up for a life of hardship without allies! (Maybe I'll change my mind in the future or just get back in bed with my Ultra's)

 

 

That's funny how that happens some times. (I thought my crappy Chaos list was going to get hosed by the 3 Knights/Shield Captains and I nearly tabled him).  

 

So you didn't walk away from that experience thinking, "I need to change this or tweak that in my list" but rather you feel like it was some decisions you made?

 

I really like my list, and I am certain it was my play that messed it up. I think the biggest setback to people have after an event is immediately changing their list. While I agree there is scenarios where this is the case, more often that not I have found it boils down to playing the units/list correctly is the bigger issue.

 

I think the most important thing you can do with a list is get a ton of games in with it (and variety,) before you decide to make changes. This allows you to see how to play it differently, and how it does in more match ups. If after that there is places you still struggle (like T8 for me,) find what you need to fix that, and test that into the dirt haha.

 

 

That's a good point. I wanted to trash my list but I did have a TON of practice games in with it (not ITC though). It definitely makes a big difference!  The worst is when you're pretty sure you need to tweak an aspect of your list and it actually has an overall negative effect making the whole thing just a bit worse.

 

 

 

Prot I love you so I’m gonna be straight up and just tell you trying to play mono Custodes is an exercise in futility.

I guess my next tournament will be an excercise in futility then!

I bet it'll be fun though

 

Depends what the goal is? There's probably only a handful of armies than can go top table at large event mono faction

But for local and mid sized tournaments where being top 8 isn't a concern I think full mono is probably do able

 

I'll find out in a couple of weeks I guess

 

 

Ask my wife... I'm all about futility! :)

 

I look forward to your report Duz!