Some Thoughts on Competitive Custodes Primarily "Mono-Build"

[duz_]

Yes

 

There's few rules like that where they activate in a particular phase. Just because your opponent doesn't participate in that phase doesn't mean the phase is skipped.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow this is a really strong tactic... I want to use it with a squad of Vertus Praetors... brilliant Prot. :)

[Prot]

Yea a lot of people don’t seem to realize this. Funny thing is though I fully explained this to my opponent, and I dangled a squad out... he still took the bait and I ended up moving a total of 24” in his turns.

 

I have done this many times but with Stooping dive it feels particularly dirty. Lol

[shanewatts]

Using Stoop get get further up the field is super clutch (as long as you can kill what you stooped, or don't care about charging your next turn.)

 

Is that a small infantry unit on an objective within 8"? Stoop to them, pile in 3, kill them, consolidate 3, watch your opponent be amazed as now their backfield units are in danger when they weren't at the start of their turn.

[Prot]

Using Stoop get get further up the field is super clutch (as long as you can kill what you stooped, or don't care about charging your next turn.)

 

Is that a small infantry unit on an objective within 8"? Stoop to them, pile in 3, kill them, consolidate 3, watch your opponent be amazed as now their backfield units are in danger when they weren't at the start of their turn.

 

It is just so dirty. lol 

Like I said I explain it before my games to my opponents (maybe I shouldn't but I hate the alternative). 

 

@Shanewatts - every game I play with this list feels so similar. It made me think... does Shanewatts feel repetition in the list like I do? You're playing tournament after tournament with these guys. How does that wear on you after a while? Or does it even phase you?

 

Further to that I see Forgeworld is the gateway to getting in deep with the army. In Canada this stuff is super expensive from duty/exchange etc, but even for you Americans it has to hit the pocket books. But it seems like a necessary evil. Now that Geoff has had 'official' success with the Caladius I'm sure that's impacting sales too. (I got mine shipped almost instantly but maybe I beat the rush?)

 

So I wonder if your swap from Deathwatch to Custodes ever has you a little tired of the army? Or you just love it that much and see no end in sight?

 

Also for more casual play it's such a strange army. People who know what they're doing can take it apart but casual games some people struggle so mightily against these guys.

[duz_]

Fortunately they quietly dropped the free shipping threshold which makes the increase not as drastic as before :D

 

Hrmmm interesting never thought the army play style could be repetitive, but makes sense I guess. I'm curious about Shane's thoughts too.

 

Unfortunately it looks like I might not get either of my lists to the table this weekend as I haven't had a chance to work on any of my custodes. :(

[shanewatts]

 

Like I said I explain it before my games to my opponents (maybe I shouldn't but I hate the alternative). 

 

I certainly ask if my opponents (even in tournaments) understand what it does, and ensure to explain it if they don't. I am not a fan of "gotcha-hammer" so I try to make sure my opponents are aware of any tricks I am capable of.

 

 

@Shanewatts - every game I play with this list feels so similar. It made me think... does Shanewatts feel repetition in the list like I do? You're playing tournament after tournament with these guys. How does that wear on you after a while? Or does it even phase you?

 

I do feel repetition after a long while, but it mostly doesn't phase me. I find that since I am playing against a variance of opponents the games are still learning experiences and so are still fun/interesting most often. When I do start getting burned out, I swap up what I am playing for an event, new list/army or play some kill team haha.

 

 

Further to that I see Forgeworld is the gateway to getting in deep with the army. In Canada this stuff is super expensive from duty/exchange etc, but even for you Americans it has to hit the pocket books. But it seems like a necessary evil. Now that Geoff has had 'official' success with the Caladius I'm sure that's impacting sales too. (I got mine shipped almost instantly but maybe I beat the rush?)

 

With the Forgeworld units being our only good "mono" source of long range firepower (I guess I am discounting the contemptor/land raider here, but lets be honest that they aren't great,) I think we will continue to see a rush to pick up the Forgeworld vehicles.

 

 

 

So I wonder if your swap from Deathwatch to Custodes ever has you a little tired of the army? Or you just love it that much and see no end in sight?

 

Nope! Haha, I am super happy with my Custodes personally and I would only swap to something else just to play around with janky army ideas.

Edited June 13, 2019 by shanewatts

[Prot]

So that begs the question.... are you picking armies because of their nature/playstyle, or because they're easier to paint? lol

 

I see our buddy from Canhammer doesn't post about his experiences as much anymore but I did catch the podcast (being Canadian) where you talked through the Forgeworld stuff and I'm curious if anything changed for you since at that time you were just starting to test.

 

What I felt like at the tournament was I would have faced some nearly instant losses... or so it seems. I really hate the Deldar Airshow lists I see so much more of now, but have not faced them with my Custodes. Also not sure about the triple knight/shield captain army I played. 

 

When I played that Tau guy (with my Custodes) and did a double Stoop Dive in that game, he kept saying, 'man if only I had that Yvarra'. I've played against that unit but he made it sound like an 'I win' button during our game. (I haven't faced it with Custodes).

[shanewatts]

So that begs the question.... are you picking armies because of their nature/playstyle, or because they're easier to paint? lol

 

Haha, I picked Custodes because of the Lore and the playstyle for certain. Ironically enough I hadn't really played with Gold primary armies before and had a ton of trouble figuring out how I wanted to paint it. (I still don't consider them finished haha.)

 

I see our buddy from Canhammer doesn't post about his experiences as much anymore but I did catch the podcast (being Canadian) where you talked through the Forgeworld stuff and I'm curious if anything changed for you since at that time you were just starting to test.

 

My feelings about these units are mostly the same. If anything I feel most of those ideas I had were spot on (or at least from my experience.) I still much prefer the Telemon to the Caladius, simply from a durability stand point haha (Using Caladius to hop on terrain next to a character to snipe it is pretty funny though.)

 

When I played that Tau guy (with my Custodes) and did a double Stoop Dive in that game, he kept saying, 'man if only I had that Yvarra'. I've played against that unit but he made it sound like an 'I win' button during our game. (I haven't faced it with Custodes).

 

The Y'vahra has a flamer that can nova charge for 3D6 shots at S6 -2 3D (and sept depending can be range 14",) so it is super good vs charging units (and since it is Tau, can fire overwatch for units within 6" of it as well.) It is very costly pointwise though, 450ish if memory serves.

 

It also is not happy being charged by a BA captain that can't be overwatched (which is what happened when I played against one at BAO.)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I rarely ever see the flamer Riptide... as Shane has noted it’s a lot of points and can’t fill the same role as the plastic Riptide. The comment from the Tau player is fairly pointless since you can’t list tailor for a tournament. Edited June 13, 2019 by Black Blow Fly

[Riot Earp]

Short update on the itc tournament. Tabled one Knight list with 2 crusader one gallant one armiger and rusty 17. 37:3

Had a close loss against Genestealercult (23:28) only to got stomped by an 3x3 talos list. Played verry defensive but they die slower than nurgle units. So it was an 16:30. Placed 13 from 23.

[sultansean]

Got to listen to Shane Watts discussing Custodes on the Beyond the Battlefield podcast, which I recommend for a listen if you haven't checked it out yet. 

[Prot]

Got to listen to Shane Watts discussing Custodes on the Beyond the Battlefield podcast, which I recommend for a listen if you haven't checked it out yet.

 

I will try to catch that. I’ve seen some of Geoff’s stuff but honestly it doesn’t appeal to me as it’s truly soup which I have no problem with him cherry picking strong units, but my personal preference is to use as much Custodes as possible.

 

Lately I’ve been having a very strong run with my Chaos so it’s time to throw a wrench in that streak with some Custodes!

 

After my Tau game where I won purely by manipulating Stooping Dive I realized the rusty 17 was basically there for 5cp as they were obliterated with Tau indirect fire power. The Transuranic rifles never got to fire. Is it worth the points on these guys for 5cp?

 

I am thinking of ditching them for 3 Allarus but this still leaves me with the issue of nothing holding home objectives .... except perhaps a Caladius and the Telemon.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Try Aquilon they hit a lot harder... S10 AP4 attacks versus S8 AP2 attacks plus Lastrum Stormbolters - rapid fire 2 S5 AP1.

[sultansean]

 

After my Tau game where I won purely by manipulating Stooping Dive I realized the rusty 17 was basically there for 5cp as they were obliterated with Tau indirect fire power. The Transuranic rifles never got to fire. Is it worth the points on these guys for 5cp?

 

I am thinking of ditching them for 3 Allarus but this still leaves me with the issue of nothing holding home objectives .... except perhaps a Caladius and the Telemon.

 

 

What would the rest of your list look like without them? 

 

My concern would not only be the lack of CP, which can be played around, but the lack of screen and objective holders. I think it is helpful to have something in a list to do this. Against tau the rusty 17 is basically going to sit on a objective and try not to die. But against Demons or orks or GSC they can be crucial to zone out those deep strikes  and catch smites. 

[Prot]

Yea I guess there’s no real way for me to work around the rusty 17 without really sacrificing my custodian troops.

 

I am needing a break from my Chaos and am trying to make a list with Allarus but you guys keep telling me the Forgeworld variant is far better. What should I test as a three man squad?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I really think you need a four man squad... I’ve had several games I rolled a bunch of 1s for armor saves. I run mine all with Solarite Power Gauntlets, three Lastrum Storm Bolters and a single Fire Pike.

[Dallas Drake]

Try Aquilon they hit a lot harder... S10 AP4 attacks versus S8 AP2 attacks plus Lastrum Stormbolters - rapid fire 2 S5 AP1.

Fire piles are brutal too. I’m sure a mono list with 2x5 fire pike Aquillon and 3x3 Custodian Guard just got 2nd at CCBB. Deep strike in and 5xd6 S6 autohits with Trajann to reroll 1s to wound.