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What’s missing from the Primaris line?


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#276
Marshal Rohr

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Yeh the problem is challenges or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is. It should just be a beatstick unit with veterans with a standard and apothecary.
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#277
Sete

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Yeah the chapter/company champion should be a non hq beatstick char.



#278
Warhead01

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Yeh the problem is challenges or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is. It should just be a beatstick unit with veterans with a standard and apothecary.

What do you mean by challenges?  Do you mean like the 7th edition challenge in close combat game mechanic ?  I am completely glad forced challenges like that gone. 


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#279
Claws and Effect

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On the usefulness of shields for a breacher unit:

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting the "Space" part of the term Space Marine. It's not represented much on the tabletop unless you're playing zone mortalis, but a big part of a Space Marines job is boarding actions on starships, just like a real world marine used to be essentially a foot soldier that happened to be on a boat.

When you're trying to board a starship and the occupants don't want you there they are going to be throwing a LOT of firepower at you down hallways with little or no cover. If you look at the Heresy breacher models, those shields are as big as they are so they can essentially take their cover with them.

In that vein, I'd like to see breacher shields with a rule to the effect of: "If this unit did not move in its prior movement phase it counts as being in cover." And it could grant a 4+ or 5+ invuln save as well.

That would represent the Marines planting that massive shield on the ground and crouching behind it, literally carrying their cover with them. It could be really useful on a battlefield with little cover.

#280
sfPanzer

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On the usefulness of shields for a breacher unit:

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting the "Space" part of the term Space Marine. It's not represented much on the tabletop unless you're playing zone mortalis, but a big part of a Space Marines job is boarding actions on starships, just like a real world marine used to be essentially a foot soldier that happened to be on a boat.

When you're trying to board a starship and the occupants don't want you there they are going to be throwing a LOT of firepower at you down hallways with little or no cover. If you look at the Heresy breacher models, those shields are as big as they are so they can essentially take their cover with them.

In that vein, I'd like to see breacher shields with a rule to the effect of: "If this unit did not move in its prior movement phase it counts as being in cover." And it could grant a 4+ or 5+ invuln save as well.

That would represent the Marines planting that massive shield on the ground and crouching behind it, literally carrying their cover with them. It could be really useful on a battlefield with little cover.

 

I'm kinda against that. Breacher units shouldn't be designed around being stationary. Except for heavy weapon squads a Marine unit should stay mobile and push the fight close to the enemy imo. Where mortals would dig themselves in to try to weather the incoming fire a Marine should push forward relying on their superior aim, gear and durability. A big shield would help with that as well. No need to plant it on the ground and wait for things to come.


Edited by sfPanzer, 22 June 2019 - 06:13 PM.

  • Trevak Dal and MARK0SIAN like this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#281
MARK0SIAN

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On the usefulness of shields for a breacher unit:

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting the "Space" part of the term Space Marine. It's not represented much on the tabletop unless you're playing zone mortalis, but a big part of a Space Marines job is boarding actions on starships, just like a real world marine used to be essentially a foot soldier that happened to be on a boat.

When you're trying to board a starship and the occupants don't want you there they are going to be throwing a LOT of firepower at you down hallways with little or no cover. If you look at the Heresy breacher models, those shields are as big as they are so they can essentially take their cover with them.

In that vein, I'd like to see breacher shields with a rule to the effect of: "If this unit did not move in its prior movement phase it counts as being in cover." And it could grant a 4+ or 5+ invuln save as well.

That would represent the Marines planting that massive shield on the ground and crouching behind it, literally carrying their cover with them. It could be really useful on a battlefield with little cover.

Full disclosure, I really don’t like marines getting bonuses for not moving as it seems to run counter to what a marine army should be in my view. However, in this case I don’t think it makes sense for the bonus to be for remaining stationary even from an objective viewpoint.

You said it yourself, the shields are for allowing the marines to advance towards the enemy and take their cover with them, to press home an assault. They don’t board the enemy ship then castle up around the breach and wait for the enemy to come to them. If they want a static defence just use an aegis line and then they’d have both hands free for defence.

The whole point of breaching shields is to advance into the teeth of some nasty resistance and any bonus/rules they get should reflect this.

EDIT - Ninja’d by SfPanzer so my post says essentially the same thing :)

Edited by MARK0SIAN, 22 June 2019 - 06:00 PM.

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#282
Dracos

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A lot of our ideas here seem to be replicating old Marine or Heresy rules. I think we should shed as much of the former thinking as possible and try to borrow from but not replicate the latter. It’s hard. I still keep thinking Primaris just need a light (read cheap) preferably fast transport. So far I think I’m just whistling up a tree. I’m hoping now just for a Repulsor minus the turret and a rule that makes it a true transport instead of a hybrid. They stepped toward MBT with the Executioner so hopes survive they swing back the other direction also.

I’m at a point I don’t feel safe buying anything until a new Codex is realized. It’d be nice if they released a “Here’s What is Coming in 2019” article.


Above everything give a melee unit that it the flip side of Aggressors are for shooting and it would make a lot of players happy.
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#283
sfPanzer

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A lot of our ideas here seem to be replicating old Marine or Heresy rules. I think we should shed as much of the former thinking as possible and try to borrow from but not replicate the latter. It’s hard. I still keep thinking Primaris just need a light (read cheap) preferably fast transport. So far I think I’m just whistling up a tree. I’m hoping now just for a Repulsor minus the turret and a rule that makes it a true transport instead of a hybrid. They stepped toward MBT with the Executioner so hopes survive they swing back the other direction also.

I’m at a point I don’t feel safe buying anything until a new Codex is realized. It’d be nice if they released a “Here’s What is Coming in 2019” article.


Above everything give a melee unit that it the flip side of Aggressors are for shooting and it would make a lot of players happy.

 

True, however I really want a Marine unit with shields and there are only so many things you can do with shield carrying Marines. It's either a 30k Breacher unti or a 40k Veteran/Terminator unit. ^^


  • Dracos likes this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpg


#284
Dracos

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Can’t argue with that :)

But lets think a little outside the box. I want to default to Storm Shield rules because they’re cheap and improve durability. Something Marines have a issue with considering the cost of an average model. Also as iconic as it is the chainsword doesn’t feel like a proper Primaris weapon and the combat blade rule is exactly the same (I think both just add +1 A?)

Both that is old thinking though. How about something sleeker emphasizing speed over brute force. A buckler and blade combo?

Buckler could provide a T5, or -2” charge for opponents giving them the better odds of getting a charge off, or maybe just another +1 A as a shield bash technique. I’m not really suggesting any of those just trying to step outside old thinking and find something that improves Primaris in ways we haven’t looked at yet.

Melee and Maneuver those are the two areas Primaris have issues. IMO

Edited by Dracos, 22 June 2019 - 06:51 PM.

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#285
sfPanzer

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Stormshields as they are would be great. They offer much greater value for Primaris than for regular Marines since Primaris are much better targets for multi-damage weapons who usually have good AP as well while regular Marines with Stormshields die pretty quickly against AP0 shooting even with Stormshields. Pretty much only Autocannons would still be a problem since those offer the best combination of everything in sacrifice of high AP (decent rate of fire, good strength, good range and multi-damage).

 

I agree on the chainswords. Kinda. I want them to have chainswords but they should give more than just +1A like the combat blades. Even just AP-1 would do alot to make them feel more fitting their devastating look. Problem is that Intercessor Sergeants already have regular Chainswords so I don't see that changing.

I'm not sure I want sleek on my Marines. At least not in general. Reivers with Combat blades are already sleek enough for my needs but the design language of the Marine line should still mainly be "brutal" imo. Sleek is more something you'd associate Eldar and T'au with in 40k. Maybe as a chapter specific melee unit like for Blood Angels or something (I'd also say Emperor's Children but those are obviously not part of any Primaris considerations).

For a buckler melee weapon combo I'd do something like -1A to a minimum of 1 for enemy models in melee as they basically push an attack to the side making it useless and setting up their own strike.

 

Generally I feel like the bases are almost all covered by now and GW would do best by focussing on chapter specific units soon. I don't think it's likely they are going to do that though since chapter specific units don't sell nearly as well as general units and it doesn't seem like they plan to make the subfactions of a Codex this diverse model/unit wise.


Edited by sfPanzer, 22 June 2019 - 07:20 PM.

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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpg





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