What’s missing from the Primaris line?

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I just don't like how they are "marines" but "better" if they were actually smaller, lacked a few capabilities but were easier to mass produce but were also more stable, i think that would of sold better. Our beloved marines would not be imposed upon by their "greatness".

 

It would of cemented marine 1.0 as superior, allowed them to retain their status and trademark characters without inviting all this cluster fluff debacle we have seen lately.

[Captain Idaho]

=][= Let's keep this topic on track and focus on what new units players feel Primaris need for their line up. =][=

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am really hoping for jetbikes that have good shooting and decent melee. 14’’ would be great.

[Schlitzaf]

Can we just have Liutanents be able to take power fists? And largely speaking let Taticus/Mark X sgts take power swords. Just as a general thing?

 

But more on topic. I am not really wanting them to fully unlock weapon options for characters. Unless the options atleast reasonably balanced for their to be actually decisions involved. Not just “everyone takes a THammer.”

 

Through what I want/range needs. As others have iterated, a functional melee unit. Not something that shoots but melees. An aggressor variant with swords for example. The other thing is that iconic deviant ‘troops’ should get Primaris Variants (admittedly only Crusaders and Grey Hunters really).

 

On a whole, the main thing I think Primaris requires is a Melee Unit not a Range Unit which can Melee. Aggressors would be that Unit if they could take Swords. And Power Fists on Liutanents.

[Ishagu]

We're already getting an anti-armour tank so that ticks off something I've been asking for repeatedly (It's like GW are listening to me lol).

 

A cheap transport is not required and has no place in the Primaris line. These guys are super Elites with advanced technology. They don't ride around in cheap, metal boxes. By virtue of having flying vehicles it would always cost more.

 

Also things like Rhinos and Pods don't really work anymore, especially as Primaris already have 4 or more units, not counting characters, that are already capable of deploying outside of regular restrictions or via free teleportation/orbital insertion.

 

Some of the other suggestion are excellent however.

 

We need a dedicated close combat unit, one that is either relatively cheap and numerous or one that is highly elite and fast moving. Ideally both types.

 

We've had mentions of a Crusader style unit. This too is a great idea. I'd go one further and grant all the chapters a unique infantry unit. Ultras already have the honour Guard - give RG a dedicated Sniper unit, BT some Intercessors armed with Chainswords and auto bolt rifles that have extra attacks, etc.

 

Jetbikes would be nice. I heard a while back they would be a thing but who knows at this point. They could fill the role of fast moving, elite cc units. Perhaps armed with lances?

In effect we already have a somewhat quick, shooting unit with the Inceptors.

 

I'm also expecting additional options for the full releases of units like the Suppressors. Perhaps a lascannon instead of an autocannon? And perhaps the Eliminator Snipers will be available in unit sizes of 3-6. To be honest if the Snipers can be taken as a 6 they will become one of the best units in the game once you combine them with the new psychic power which prevents them from being a target unless they are thr closest unit. They'll be truly fearsome character hunters.

 

On top of this I'd like to see more chapter specific characters. At least one Primaris hero for each of the codex chapters is a must. We've already seen a great start with Calgar and the new Iron Father.

 

So, to summarise:

 

-unique Heroes for each chapter

-Cheap-ish, numerous CC unit

-Elite, fast moving CC unit

-New Wargear options for units like Suppressors

-a Flyer of some description

 

 

Oh, and most important of all: STRATAGEMS! We need a full re-write and a whole new list of strats and a tweaking of the Chapter Tactics for Primaris forces.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If our sergeants all have access to power Fists and Reivers get power swords I think melee is mostly sorted. Every chapter should get a beatstick like PriMarneus too .

[Ishagu]

I'm not disturbed by Primaris marines lacking some capabilities. I like them better as supplements to my regular marines and don't want to think about them as a viable replacement

Funny, I see the classic Marines as a supplement to my Primaris.

 

Yeah, it's a pretty frustrating comment. Let's leave this kind of stuff out of the topic, eh?

 

GW and BL have made it clear there are Primaris only chapters. In the lore they have additional vehicles like the Overlord. They still need a few extra kits to round our their capabilities.

 

If our sergeants all have access to power Fists and Reivers get power swords I think melee is mostly sorted. Every chapter should get a beatstick like PriMarneus too .

They could also make their knives - 1 or -2ap and rename them to Power blades

Edited June 9, 2019 by Ishagu

[Prot]

If Primaris combat blades were S+1and AP -1 I’d be happy. And widely available to Reivers, I would love it. Basically we’re talking about a Chaos chainaxe.

[War Angel]

Grey hunters (at least in 3rd) are just tactical marines that can’t take heavy weapons. Space wolves couldn’t take tacticals and instead had blood claws. I feel like they would need blood claws before they got grey hunters.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Grey hunters (at least in 3rd) are just tactical marines that can’t take heavy weapons. Space wolves couldn’t take tacticals and instead had blood claws. I feel like they would need blood claws before they got grey hunters.

This isn't accurate. Grey Hunters were always the SW Tactical analogue, but had more options and difference than just 'no heavy weapons'. Blood Claws were always the Assault Marine analogue, Wolves just got them in Troops without Jump Packs, plus with Packs in FA (there was a weird thing in 2nd and early 3rd where both Wolf Scouts and Blood Claws were rookie Marines, but that changed when the 3rd ed dex introduced the veteran specialist Scouts we now have). In 3rd edition GH could take special melee weapons (power weapon or fist iirc), had the option to take a dude with a plasma pistol, 'technically' had to buy their bolters for an additional +1ppm (but nobody ever ran them with bp + ccw) and (most importantly) had True Grit to diffentiate them from regular Tacticals.

 

Not sure what this has to do with Primaris, mind. The entire SW role progression doesn't really gel with Primaris atm, which is why it's frustrating we've got no additional details or explanation as to how it all works within the Chapter, despite the SW dex adding Primaris.

[War Angel]

I over simplified it, sue me.

 

Grey hunters provide a shooting troops choice to make up for the lack of shooting that the other troop choice had. “Primaris grey hunters” would be what? Intercessors with the ability to take a power weapon, special weapon, and plasma pistol? Might as well just give space wolf intercessors the options. Could even change the name to grey hunters.

 

On the other hand, they could have a Primaris version of blood claws, Primaris marines who just joined the chapter and haven’t fully adapted to the canis helix (I could be wrong but didn’t crawl supposedly cure all of the gene issues in the chapters? I hope he didn’t) take away the rifles and give them chainswords and whatever other flaws/bonuses that bloodclaws have.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Blood Claws would just be Reivers. Grey Hunters need an Intercessor equivalent plus Wolf Guard.

[Boldthreat]

Here is what I think, warning... wild wishlisting and speculation ahead, as well as opinionated thought lol!

 

I’m basing my thoughts on the various interviews we have been able to view on this subject. I could be wrong for sure, but I believe it’s a good a guess as can be surmised.

 

We know we currently have 4 armor types that units can utilize. There may be more. I suspect at least one. We also know that GW could easily add different variants as needed... so it’s much more open ended than before. That’s a good thing. But let’s try to fill in the void.

 

First, vehicles. I subscribe to Ishagu’s train of thought in that Primaris aren’t getting a cheap transport, nor do they need one. i believe the main focus on the line is the power armor infantry and big vehicles will be rare, expensive and powerful. With that said, somewhere the Overlord is waiting for it’s big reveal. It sounds like it has quite a bit of firepower and carrying capacity. Screw the Astreus, this thing will be the big unit. I cannot wait to see it!

 

Second, changes or addictions to existing units. Reivers need a buff to their blades. Not quite power weapons but better than they are. Suppressors need to be able to swap their auto cannons to lascannons. Infiltrators will surely get some minor options and so will Exterminators. I’d honestly like to see Exterminators get missile launchers with different missile types.

 

Now I will go into the armor types. I believe all four current armors should and will get units to fill battlefield roles. Only one is currently complete in that regard, and that is Phobos armor. It has infiltrators as troops, Reivers as fast attack, and exterminators as heavy support. Whilst I believe GW is not done with more potential Phobos designs... this line is complete for now.

 

Tacticus armor has troops and heavy support filled. I believe that Tacticus armor is the “traditional” line of the Primaris. But I don’t believe we will see a Tacticus variant of assault marines. No I believe the hallmark of Tacticus is the traditional gun line troop. So I believe this unit would be breacher inspired. Chainswords and boarding shields. Maybe chainswords could be replaced by another weapon... melta perhaps? Maybe even cawl designed volkite weaponry? My gut tells me that GW won’t ignore how awesome space marine breachers look.

 

Gravis armor. This one is tricky for me to guess. But I’ll try. We have heavy support and fast attack in the form of Aggressors and Inceptors respectfully. So what would a troop version of this look like? Note, just because they are marked a troop choice doesn’t mean they wouldn’t actually be in the elite category. I’m thinking another assault based unit. Lighting claws? Thunder hammers and storm shields? With aggressors and inceptors being so range focused, i expect the next Gravis unit to be all close assault. I’d personally be bored by more bolt weaponry.

 

Omnis pattern armor. This one is new as of Shadowspear. I know it appears as just Tacticus with inceptor inspired boots. But I think it’s named for a reason. We only have the heavy support variant in the suppressors. For a troop choice I expect a variant of these guys riding Primaris grav bikes into battle. With deep strike rules and going reletively fast. Maybe using their armor in conjunction with their bikes for some neat rules. No idea on weaponry. The fast attack variant would be the assault marine knockoff. I’m imagining suppressors with chainswords and flame throwers. Maybe upgradable to power weapons. A unit that would go along nicely with a Primaris Shrike.

 

I would imagine the next Primaris box set to come out will be assault focused. So that’s where i am imagining these guys filling needed vacancies.

 

I also believe there is a 5th type. But I’ll readily admit it’s my most wishful of all. Primaris Terminator Plate. No, I don’t know what it would be like... as I truly believe Gravis units fill the traditional terminator role. I just don’t believe Gravis armor captures that feel of terminators. I can’t imagine being impressed with Gravis Deathwing or an updated Space Hulk with Aggressors in lieu of terminators. And I say that as someone who appreciated the look of Gravis. I would imagine it would be very elite and expensive. Hard to kill, harder than traditional terminators. But the weaponry would have to be just as good. As aggressors are already sporting dual power Fists and Bolters. I’m thinking mini assault cannons for the whole lot, with close combat weapons that put the normal stuff to shame. A true do anything unit that captures the vibe of Indomitus terminators and is truly terrifying to face. A must buy for any space marine player.

 

After all the above... sprinkle unique chapter specific units and special Primaris characters and I’d be great.

 

All my limited opinion though.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

I'm not disturbed by Primaris marines lacking some capabilities. I like them better as supplements to my regular marines and don't want to think about them as a viable replacement

Funny, I see the classic Marines as a supplement to my Primaris.

 

Yeah, it's a pretty frustrating comment. Let's leave this kind of stuff out of the topic, eh?

 

GW and BL have made it clear there are Primaris only chapters. In the lore they have additional vehicles like the Overlord. They still need a few extra kits to round our their capabilities.

 

If our sergeants all have access to power Fists and Reivers get power swords I think melee is mostly sorted. Every chapter should get a beatstick like PriMarneus too .

They could also make their knives - 1 or -2ap and rename them to Power blades

[Claws and Effect]

Give Reivers the Knife Fighter rule and suddenly Space Wolves Reivers will be a scary unit. Their +1 to hit when charging would translate to scoring 2 hits on a 5 or 6.

[quasistellar]

I kinda agree with some of the other posters about Primaris not needing bikes.  It would be a great deal of overlap with all the jump pack units they already have, unless they had +1W and +1T over Inceptors.

 

What primaris needs is some good melee options on units that already exist, or a new unit for dedicated melee.  Imagine if Reivers had some scary weapons--you could cast Shrouding to prevent shooting them turn one with come clever Infiltrator or Scout placement, or just pay the points for grav chutes and deep strike them of course.  My point is there is great potential but they're a bit hamstrung by lack of options at the moment.

 

Of course as we all know Primaris could use a simple cheap transport.  Granted, it would probably suck at the moment, but the option would exist for future rules iterations of the game.

 

Finally some sort of Flyer.  IDK what kind of flyer, but that's probably the last thing the line would need.

[Ishagu]

Why do you want a cheap transport? The Primaris are not 1:1 copies of the classic Astartes.

 

The Rhino was iconic but also not entirely thematic with the idea of super elite soldiers who are equipped with the best tech the Imperium can muster.

 

Currently a transport like that would not improve the army.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Ishagu

[Brother Casman]

Narratively speaking I would want some explanation of how the various Battle-Brothers move about the overall theatre of war - I don't expect that it's all Thunderhawk pick-ups (or whatever), Repulsors, or walking. I'd be okay with letting the Primaris Marines into Rhinos, but something new could be cool, too. So, a "cheap transport" would be my first request.

 

My second request would be a techmarine! (admittedly, there's likely one coming, since we know about the Iron Hands character, but still, confirmation would be nice.)

 

Finally, melee options. I have to agree with Sete - where are the chainswords?

[Marshal Rohr]

Primaris being elite wouldn’t have any effect on their transports. The elite of modern armies ride in the same things (or even lighter classes) of apcs and ifvs. Being elite is about the missions you do, not what you’re equipped with. That’s video game logic. If anything Primaris should have access from everything to Land Speeder Storms to Rhinos to Land Raiders to Repulsors to Storm Ravens/Eagles/Thunderhawks. Edited June 11, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Robbienw]

The Rhino is actually quite high tech and very robust and durable.  Perfect for use by elite super soldiers.  Its only avaliable to a few top imperial organisations afterall.

 

I wouldn't say give primaris access to it the actual Rhino, but some form of light and fast utility transport for them would be very thematic.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Robbienw

[War Angel]

It can’t be a rhino replacement. A think replacement would be too 1 for 1. Maybe a land speeder storm hybrid? Increasing the speed of the repulsor and either reducing its armor or its guns, but not both.

 

Another thing to consider is this. If you think they need a rhino for cheap transport in a narrative setting, your being too influenced by game logic. The repulsor is an APC. They would just keep using the apc, not make a cheaper one. They are the elite, they deserve a transport that matches them. Just don’t think of it as a battle tank.

[Marshal Rohr]

It’s game logic to think the logistical supply chain of a galaxy wide military would devote time and resources to make an ‘elite’ vehicle. They would just make vehicles for different missions, and elite outfits would have access to all of them. The most specialized vehicles in use by modern militaries are light vehicles sub-contracted out to civilian manufacturers to make combat capable versions for special operations. Alternatively, those same ‘elite’ forces use existing models in production with specialized engines or stealth materials retrofitted over things that already exist. Edited June 11, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Triszin]

Give Reivers the Knife Fighter rule and suddenly Space Wolves Reivers will be a scary unit. Their +1 to hit when charging would translate to scoring 2 hits on a 5 or 6.

That would also make them worth it as elites. I'd have to change my load out on em

 

 

Why do you want a cheap transport? The Primaris are not 1:1 copies of the classic Astartes.

 

The Rhino was iconic but also not entirely thematic with the idea of super elite soldiers who are equipped with the best tech the Imperium can muster.

 

Currently a transport like that would not improve the army.

I want an expensive transport. *

 

A. Fast moving skimmer transport of 10, charge same turn deploy.

Also has a 1cp strat to redeploy grapple reivers same turn.

I.e. use strat, if reivers are within 6" of the flight path of the vehicle they latch their grapples to it and redeploy with 6" of the ship after it moves.

 

B. A transport with. A capacity of 12, that has a 6" 5+ shield for allied chapter infantry.

Give it the automantic pavise from the deredeo.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Triszin

[Robbienw]

War Angel, the repulsor would actually be an IFV rather than an APC. As it transports troops and has armament to support them in battle.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm still wondering why Primaris can't ride in a vehicle that can transport freaking Centurions.

 

What, they weren't trained on how to open the door?