Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Black Legion Dark Apostle rules and interaction?

  • Please log in to reply
2 replies to this topic




  • 11 posts
The Dark Apostle's Demagogue ability allows for a unit within 6" to use the Apostle's ld instead.

With the Black Legion Trait, and Trophies of Slaughter Relic, I am assuming these are not static abilities and that the bonus only applies in the phases that require the leadership.

Reason why I am asking is due to late night I somehow rationalized and wrote down to myself that the a CSM squad with Icon of Vengance would work as;

DA Demagogue ability passing the da ld (da ld + legion trait on da + relic on da) + legion trait on csm + Icon on csm = 13 - models lost.

It can't work this way... right? I must be a fool.

Closet Skeleton

Closet Skeleton


  • 2,484 posts
  • Location:Hertfordshire
  • Faction: Black Templars

Black crusaders (legion trait) is +1 to leadership of all models in the unit.


Icon of Vengeance is +1 to leadership of all models in the unit.


Trophies of Slaughter is +1 to leadership of units within range.


All these abilities are static modifiers to statistics except for trophies of slaughter which is conditional on range.


Demagogue lets you use the Dark Apostle's leadership instead of the model's leadership, so it isn't a modifier. So a Black Legion aspiring champion in a unit with a icon of vengeance is leadership 10 (8 +1 for icon +1 for BC) while a nearby dark Apostle is leadership 10 (9+1 for BC), when he needs to take a moral test he can use either leadership value thanks to the demagogue rule (which doesn't matter because both are 10). If a unit of 5 terminators with an icon of vengeance are near a dark apostle then they can use either their champion's leadership of 11 (base 9+1+1) or the dark apostle's 10.


If a chaos lord with the Trophies of Slaughter is in range of the CSM but not the Dark Apostle then CSM can use leadership of 10+1 (8+1+1+1) or 10 (9+1) while if the dark apostle is also in range but the CSM are not then they can use either the apostle's 10+1=11 or their own 10. If the Apostle has the Trophies then he's always in range of himself so if he was in range of a unit of 10 khorne CSM with an icon of wrath then the CSM could either use their leadership of 9+1 (base 8 +1 for BC +1 for the trophies) or the Dark Apostle's 11 (base 9 +1 for BC +1 for the trophies).


If a enemy chaos spawn charges the CSM they get -1 to their leadership but the dark apostle might be outside of the chaos spawn's 1" bubble so the CSM could ignore that by using the apostle's leadership. But other similar rules add modifiers to leadership tests instead so that wouldn't matter.


Simple wacko.png

  • Doom Herald likes this

Doom Herald

Doom Herald


  • 699 posts
  • Location:North Carolina, USA
Pretty comprehensive answer there. In short, you would apply all Ld modifiers first, then you can choose to use either the non-apostle unit's Ld (after their modifiers), or the Apostle's Ld (after his modifiers). Some rules affect the morale roll it's self and not Ld though, and these would apply after the choice of which Ld to use.

As far as applying only in phases that require leadership, many phases other than morale use Ld. Some ranged weapons and psychic powers use Ld, as do many other abilities. Malignitas weapons fire vs Ld, Treason of Tzeentch psychic power rolls vs Ld, the Contorted Epitome makes enemies roll vs Ld to fall back. Ld matters in many phases. If it says it modifies Ld, it does so in all phases, except some rules that specifically say only during morale, so it's important to pay attention.

Edited by Doom Herald, 13 June 2019 - 05:52 PM.

  • Putrid Choir likes this

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users