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GW and the Forge World question- an official response

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#1
MegaVolt87

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So recently I attended a GW store to buy some paint, then realized that store had a no FW policy. I was quite unhappy about this and proceed to send GW a complaint email. They have since responded. I was not initially going to post this, as I thought I would have a better outcome. I have edited my initial email here as not to call out the specific store I attended. 

 

 

Dear Games Workshop Australia Regional Management,
 
Recently I have visited the X, STATE Warhammer store to purchase some more paints. However, I then learned that the manager has a no Forge World models policy for the store. This did not make sense to me as Forge World is apart of Games Workshop, their earnings are in the yearly financials for the Games Workshop group etc. Doing further research, Games Workshop leaves whether Forge World is usable in store at the discretion of the store managers, as that is the policy not if Forge World is actually allowed in store- which it should be as the official company policy. I have the following to talk about.
 
I have a finance background, with professional contacts in both sales and marketing. Excluding customers who buy more niche/aftermarket/ prestige products from the entity in question is not the way to go, especially with their purchasing power in comparison to other customers is far greater. I walked out of the X store feeling angry, disappointed, marginalized and discriminated against due to not being able to use the official miniatures I had paid for that are legal and valid to use in the current 8th edition rule-set for Warhammer 40,000. Australians already pay more than the majority of others internationally for the Games Workshop hobby, then being told they cannot use the official products in the Warhammer stores is a further blow to the customer base. Paying for products we cannot use in your stores seems like a complete scam or even outright theft of our money. The reasoning behind no FW products is flawed.
 
Customers can't buy it in store, so I don't want it in my store.
Customers do not have access to the FW rules, so it is unfair.
I don't like that I have to tell customers they can't buy this in store and have to use a website.
 
The first point, that attitude makes no sense, because by that reasoning you could not use the limited edition primaris lieutenants, store anniversary models, games day event exclusive miniatures etc in the store because many are both out of production and unavailable to buy in the store. Also this would apply to whole armies such as the Vostroyan Firstborn Imperial Guard (Astra Millitarum) miniatures as they are no longer produced by GW or sold in Warhammer stores. The second point, customers do not have access to the rules, this is untrue, if I have a model I have the codex and rules for that model. It is no issue or inconvenience for me to pass over the Imperial Armour index book for my opponent to read and for me to talk about and answer questions on how the FW units work. While admittedly, the manager won't sell the FW stock physically in their store inventory, Forge World orders could easily be done and paid for over the counter, with delivery going to that particular store. Customers could be notified by phone, email, text message, facebook/social media etc that their order has arrived and is there to pick up in store. This is also convenient for customers who are often not home, unable to sign for packages or if the area has problems with leaving packages at the door. You can already do such orders at Warhammer stores where they don't have enough quantity of main line GW stock you want in store or online only GW products, it gets delivered to the store, you can pick it up from the store without worrying about having it delivered to your home.
 
Now to clarify the type of customer you are driving away with the no FW store policy. The potential Warhammer store customer who purchases FW products is aged from their late 20's, employed, working at a job that pays well enough. They are happy to buy extra product they do not necessarily focus on, such as the specialist games ranges, like Necromunda or Titanicus. (I am looking forward to Aeronautica Imperialis!). Every store visit results in a purchase, could be anything- books, paints, more miniatures etc. Speaking personally I never manage to walk out of the store spending less than AUD$80-$100+ minimum. So this is money that Warhammer store will not see as a result of a no FW models store policy.
 
If the FW model ban is as pervasive as I hope it is not, no Warhammer store will see such business as it will go to independent stockists who also have space to play and an all encompassing GW product policy. Having players using FW products in store is free marketing. Having someone ask "how do I get that?" your store managers can up-sell the faction that FW unit came from to a prospective customer. Sales can always be made of GW kits in armies that use FW models. Up-selling and cross-promotion in this way is a win-win for the store manager. As a professional who has finance, marketing and sales experience I question the competency of the store manager at their job who are afraid of allowing FW miniatures in their store, in their ability to sell your other products by instituting a no FW models policy in your stores. This impacts your brand image by having such people and policies as representative of your company. The GW hobby dose not feel inclusive and accepting at all with a FW model ban at your stores. Again, this is a needless hit your company is taking to its reputation and brand image.
 
Now as a final point, if nothing will indeed change as a result of this email I would like to know which Warhammer stores in Australia, STATE I can actually go and play using my FW models. Please tell me which stores I can attend that do not have a FW product ban that makes me feel angry, disappointed, marginalized and discriminated against.
 
Yours Sincerely,
 
MegaVolt87.

 

I know that's a pretty heavy and probably dramatic complaint letter with combative language. However note at the end I gave them basically a clear exit by asking them to, you know, give me as a customer some actual customer service by informing me of stores that do not have an anti FW policy. Now if this occurred and they let me know where I can play in my state at Warhammer stores that have a pro-FW policy, that would be the end of it- though I feel compelled to share this publicly based on the response I received. I think you guys can imagine what they replied with. Have a think about it before you read the response and see if you were close! 
 

 

Hi MegaVolt87,  
Thanks for the emailing in your feedback on this matter. 
 
At this time the allowance of Forgeworld model use in store is up to the current managers (of that stores) discretion.
The best advice we can give is to contact the local stores around you to see what they say on the matter. Any further issues you have with this feel free to email us again. If we update this in the future we will let all our customer bases in our stores know. 
 
X  The Games Workshop Customer Service Team
 
 
Now where to start.... First you can read this as GW has no idea of what stores are pro or anti FW. Also seems to me I am just being politely ignored honestly. If I had sent something similar to any other company, by adding in an exit and solution at the end of a complaint letter like I did here, any other customer rep from any other company would have told me about other stores etc. Why tabletop games and video games companies think they can get away with that poor level of customer service is beyond me. This anti FW problem isn't just an Australia problem, its an everyone problem. I am hoping this gains some tractions and some of the 40k influencers put a spotlight on this. Its an issue that should be a non issue- FW should be allowed in all Warhammer stores period.
 
EDIT- The three main arguments in my email about no FW were basically the points the particular manager made, not word for word sure but the way they articulated themselves they were saying those points. The beauty of language, you can articulate the same points a different way and still have the same intent and meaning. 

Edited by MegaVolt87, 12 June 2019 - 10:35 PM.

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#2
Trench

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Luckily I have not had to play in a store of any kind for almost fifteen years, so avoid this kind of nonsense but GW need to fix this themselves by counting sales made online via the store on both the regular GW & FW websites as part of that stores sales, so that individual managers don't feel threatened by someone wanting to buy & use Forge World stuff.


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#3
sfPanzer

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Eh, if it's really up to each individual manage then of course the GW support team won't know about which store has which policy regarding FW models. Also they adviced you to ask your local stores (not local GW stores) which they know even less about. They didn't ignore you, they gave you the best answer they could in that given situation.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#4
TrawlingCleaner

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I get why they would not allow it in store for pick up games as I imagine it would be another set of rules that the managers etc would need to know/ have a grasp of



#5
Canadian_F_H

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It is nuts. And kind of dumb. It is thr way things are unfortunatly. And hopefully it changes.

The person who responded to you probably cant say much more than what they said because they dont have a better answer available to them. Feedback like what youve given them is probably the only kind of pressure they have to change the policy. If more folks gsve the same sort of feed back, one would hope it might stimulate a response higher up.
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#6
Halandaar

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Agreed with some of the above responses; if GW policy is that it's up to individual store managers to decide, then they aren't going to know centrally which stores do or don't support FW, especially as the nature of the policy allows managers to change their minds about it. I can't see what better answer they could have given you really.

 

That saidI do agree that not allowing FW in games in GW stores is complete nonsense. It's an official product, it's designed, produced and shipped from the same building as everything else, there's no logical reason not to allow people to use it in the stores and frankly, GW should just change the policy and instruct stores to allow the use of Forgeworld models in games. 


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#7
Dredgen Yor

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See, I talked with my local GW manager about Forge World when I started visiting again after some time away from the hobby and his reasoning is quite fair. He basically said that a lot of tools and units you can pick up from Forge World are very powerful and compared to other units in GW are just more powerful. Why go for Hellbrutes when the Hellforged Contemptor has better tools and better stats? So for his shop he rules that you're allowed to use Forge Worlds in friendly games against friends but for general competitions or campaigns it's a no go. It isn't just as black and white as you're portraying it to be. Yeah it's an official products coming from FW but it's always kinda been in it's own orbit. I mean, I don't play in stores 90% of the time unless some event comes up that interests me but erh, that's my thoughts on it at least.


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#8
sairence

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I don't know if you can really make such a blanket statement about FW being more powerful these days.

Just looking at my Guard Codex and Imperial Armour index (which is what I know best), for the most part the Codex is just better and more cost efficient. You have a few outliers that are straight up better, like the Leman Russ Conqueror for example, but beyond that the statement simply doesn't hold up for the Guard.

Hell, the superheavies are objectively worse, because they never got the boost the codex versions received with increased shot numbers.

And in case of the Guard, you exclude both Elysians (rip) and Death Korps from being used entirely.

As for the topic at hand...I don't think the OP ever had a chance of getting a better answer than that. A basic support person is never going to explain company policy to you.

Edited by sairence, 12 June 2019 - 02:06 PM.

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#9
sfPanzer

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Yeah these days many FW units are actually weaker than GW units. It's a good mix.


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Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#10
Gederas

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See, I talked with my local GW manager about Forge World when I started visiting again after some time away from the hobby and his reasoning is quite fair. He basically said that a lot of tools and units you can pick up from Forge World are very powerful and compared to other units in GW are just more powerful. Why go for Hellbrutes when the Hellforged Contemptor has better tools and better stats? So for his shop he rules that you're allowed to use Forge Worlds in friendly games against friends but for general competitions or campaigns it's a no go. It isn't just as black and white as you're portraying it to be. Yeah it's an official products coming from FW but it's always kinda been in it's own orbit. I mean, I don't play in stores 90% of the time unless some event comes up that interests me but erh, that's my thoughts on it at least.

Because the Hellforged Contemptor, while being a Dreadnought, has a different role than a regular Helbrute.

 

That's like him saying you can't use Scions because they're better all-around than Guardsmen. Or you can't use Primaris marines because you have normal Marines.


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#11
Trench

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I just assumed any managers who excluded FW were doing so because from what I have been told by the two former GW employees at my club they get given sales targets and so don't want people buying FW instead of a product direct from them.

 

If it is actually because FW might not always have the fairest rules(which is not true anyway) then that is even dumber, as I assume these same managers don't exclude certain units sold by main GW that have rules more powerful then others.

 

GW need to scrap this nonsense about treating FW like it is something special rather then just another department.

 

I doubt many other businesses would allow employees to discourage people from buying their products by not allowing them to be used in what to some people could be their main place to game, bizarre behaviour.


Edited by Trench, 12 June 2019 - 02:30 PM.


#12
MARK0SIAN

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I can see how the’FW is overpowered’ stance started in previous editions where some of the stuff really was broken but in 8th edition the vast majority of it is underpowered/lacklustre/overcosted compared to the GW units.

Anyone familiar with 8th (and you’d assume a store manager was) would know that and so I doubt that’s the reason it’s not allowed in many stores. I suspect it is to do with sales as others have pointed out.

The truly overpowered stuff has come from GW this edition and if the store managers were really following a principle of overpowered models are not allowed then a lot of other stuff would have to go too for it to be consistent.

It’s silly not allowing FW in stores, just as it’s silly that some tournaments restrict it. The only thing you can do is not give them your business.

#13
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Edit: Nevermind, just saw Jolemai's post.

In any case, I have never understood the FW ban in official stores as it is an official product.

Edited by The Observer, 12 June 2019 - 10:12 PM.

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#14
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It's the combination of a few issues I think. Forge world has a reputation as pay-to-win due to the FW studio making up their own rules and points. It's not really true any more with the adjustments in chapter approved, but that reputation has existed for a long time so it won't disappear overnight. Forgeworld is almost like a 3rd party bits/model maker that's GW compatible  but just happens to be owned by GW. Back in the early days, citadel miniatures was like that - they funded it, but didn't run it, before it eventually got absorbed into GW proper. Forgeworld certainly used to be run at a fair arms length from the main company, kinda like a skunkworks in a tech company, though I think they're trying to change that relationship a bit these days.

 

GW do still like to give the impression still that they're a unique models manufacturer that's all about the Hobby, not a retailer - that's why they outsource a lot to independent retailers! The warhammer stores are hobby zones, to introduce newcomers, spread the Hobby love and build a community. Thus store managers being given free reign to make decisions that suit the local market, rather than dictats from on-high.

 

However, I did work in a GW store some years ago. I can't speak to what they're like now, but back then they liked to give the same sort of spiel, and there was a grain of truth to it, but in reality managers were very much judged on meeting their in-store sales targets, marketing decisions came mostly from above to tie in with whatever specific thing they were trying to flog that month, and there were an insane amount of rules of what you were and weren't allowed to do. Sure, you built up a client base by providing a good service, knowing your stuff and making them fun places to be for regulars and newbies, but it was still very much a standard retail business underneath. So sending customers in-store away to buy stuff off some other store, even if the profit ends up back up GW eventually, doesn't benefit the store manager and would hurt their sales targets, assuming they still use those.

 

In the store I worked in, forge world was banned by the manager for a specific reason though - the kind of players that would bring in forge world models, though this was back in the early days. In *that specific area* those players were basically *that guy*. Older people with free cash to burn, but they wouldn't spend it in the store, they'd find the cheapest reseller to always mail order the most powerful stuff, use the instore-table for free paint, and would generally be obnoxious players that would happily curb stomp newbies and/or mock their choices, thus making those poor newbies first visit often their last one. Banning forge world and being a hardass on non-GW bits worked very well at driving the majority off in a huff.

Did some good people get put off by what appeared to be a capricious anti-customer decision? Very likely. Did that outweigh the benefits of bringing in and keeping a bunch of happy kids nagging their parents for presents? Well, he always hit his sales targets...

 

And yes, he'd do house rules/restrictions for stuff that was too good for in-store competitions to make it fairer. And if you were a decent customer that helped build a nice experience in-store and sometimes bought stuff, he'd turn a blind eye to reasonable amounts of non-GW stuff (and forge world) and let you use the space in back, as long as you weren't bragging about it or telling some 12 year old to throw away whatever cool thing they loved the look of (but with somewhat mediocre rules). He was the person that got me to work for GW, for a while anyway, because he did make it actually enjoyable to be in there.

 

So anyways. Banning forge world isn't necessarily *about* forge world as it exists now - and GW like to maintain the appearance of the retail stores, and forge world, being independently run, even if it's not entirely true.


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#15
MegaVolt87

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@Arkhanist, yeah I hear you. I also remember the FW evolution as well as you describe. Its just things have progressed so much since then that an anti FW policy makes little sense these days. You still get "that guy" type of players running the bleeding edge of the meta without FW units. An old independent LGS that sadly is no longer in business I attended when I was younger, solved the "that guy" problem. When 40K and fantasy tourny's happened, the "that guys" were all paired up in the first round. This knocked around their points enough so they all didn't end up at the top tables, giving everyone else more of a shot. I remember those matches were crushing, one "that guy" always completely decimated that other "that guy". The salt was real when that happened every time. It was a guaranteed loss for half of them by a large scoring margin. My IW list has two sicarians, they are good but not game breaking. I find it funny that people see FW stuff as OP when loyal 32 with knights are still good post FAQ as well as eldar etc. I would argue people would be more upset to see Red Corsairs CP batteries/ cultist spam with the upcoming new chaos knights than a list with two sicarians making me a "that guy" apparently. 

 

Ishagu has a point also. I amended my initial post as the three points in my email were basically the managers reasoning in our conversation. Even if I did go back to that store, abide by the no FW policy, there is no real assurance that I would not have issue with things like FW rotor cannons as chain cannons, FW rhino's, FW preads, contemptors as hellbrutes and the basic land raiders from FW as a variant model that is WYSIWYG than can be used from the CSM codex. I think the manager was savvy enough to not say FW is unbalanced compared to non FW choices as one of his reasons. I just was surprised that head office don't know what its stores are doing to answer where I can use FW in their own Warhammer stores. I doubt this is the first time they get asked this question where one can use FW stuff at what stores, and am sure its not the last they would be asked such a question. Sure I can do the legwork myself to find out, though remember most of the time when you ask such a question the customer service rep anywhere else would help find such information out for you and get back to you with that information later on. Thats just basic customer service 101 in my opinion. 


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#16
Claws and Effect

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That sucks, dude.

My local GW store manager doesn't care at all if people use FW stuff. He doesn't even care about conversions with 3rd party bits as long as the majority of the model is recognizable as a GW product.

Hell, I played in an Apocalypse game last Saturday that included a Warhound Titan and my own Fire Raptor.

#17
kombatwombat

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MegaVolt87, are you able to please tell me if the store you’re referring to is in Western Australia? I know of one store manager here who runs unofficial tournaments with a no-FW policy, but I’d be deeply concerned if it’s the same guy bringing that sentiment to his store as well.

He basically said that a lot of tools and units you can pick up from Forge World are very powerful and compared to other units in GW are just more powerful.


Thing is, this is measurably and factually incorrect. If you track the units that dominate the competitive meta in 8th Edition, beyond a small handful of outliers, all of the most dominant units are from GW main. From the Guard Codex onwards, all Codexes have operated at a level distinctly above the FW Indexes. The FW Dreadnought/Helbrute example only works because the Marines and Chaos Codexes are just awful competitively, whereas the FW Dreadnoughts are middle of the road to solid in a competitive sense. Compare the FW Dreadnoughts to something like GW Codex Knights and they just aren’t up to the same standard.

I think the reasoning has to be the store manager’s sales targets. Which is a failing on the part of GW’s policy of not allowing FW models to be bought through the store’s portal and counting towards their sales targets. It’s a poor policy that hurts the company’s ability to upsell to their customers.

#18
MegaVolt87

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MegaVolt87, are you able to please tell me if the store you’re referring to is in Western Australia? I know of one store manager here who runs unofficial tournaments with a no-FW policy, but I’d be deeply concerned if it’s the same guy bringing that sentiment to his store as well.

 

I intentionally redacted that type of info because directing that sort of customer disconcent towards specific stores and individuals publicly is the optimal outcome for GW. Its all too easy to fire the manager, replace them with a better one, make a social media post on the store's social media that the store is now pro FW. Mission Accomplished right? Not really, other stores will still have an anti FW policy because the wider policy has not changed at all. We have achieved nothing and are right back where we started. Its ok to name and shame in the private correspondence, but when you make that public, remove such information. This way other customers ire can be more correctly directed to the actual company, more likely to force some sort of change eventually. 


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#19
StruManChu

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It's the combination of a few issues I think. Forge world has a reputation as pay-to-win due to the FW studio making up their own rules and points. It's not really true any more with the adjustments in chapter approved, but that reputation has existed for a long time so it won't disappear overnight. Forgeworld is almost like a 3rd party bits/model maker that's GW compatible  but just happens to be owned by GW. Back in the early days, citadel miniatures was like that - they funded it, but didn't run it, before it eventually got absorbed into GW proper. Forgeworld certainly used to be run at a fair arms length from the main company, kinda like a skunkworks in a tech company, though I think they're trying to change that relationship a bit these days.

 

GW do still like to give the impression still that they're a unique models manufacturer that's all about the Hobby, not a retailer - that's why they outsource a lot to independent retailers! The warhammer stores are hobby zones, to introduce newcomers, spread the Hobby love and build a community. Thus store managers being given free reign to make decisions that suit the local market, rather than dictats from on-high.

 

However, I did work in a GW store some years ago. I can't speak to what they're like now, but back then they liked to give the same sort of spiel, and there was a grain of truth to it, but in reality managers were very much judged on meeting their in-store sales targets, marketing decisions came mostly from above to tie in with whatever specific thing they were trying to flog that month, and there were an insane amount of rules of what you were and weren't allowed to do. Sure, you built up a client base by providing a good service, knowing your stuff and making them fun places to be for regulars and newbies, but it was still very much a standard retail business underneath. So sending customers in-store away to buy stuff off some other store, even if the profit ends up back up GW eventually, doesn't benefit the store manager and would hurt their sales targets, assuming they still use those.

 

In the store I worked in, forge world was banned by the manager for a specific reason though - the kind of players that would bring in forge world models, though this was back in the early days. In *that specific area* those players were basically *that guy*. Older people with free cash to burn, but they wouldn't spend it in the store, they'd find the cheapest reseller to always mail order the most powerful stuff, use the instore-table for free paint, and would generally be obnoxious players that would happily curb stomp newbies and/or mock their choices, thus making those poor newbies first visit often their last one. Banning forge world and being a hardass on non-GW bits worked very well at driving the majority off in a huff.

Did some good people get put off by what appeared to be a capricious anti-customer decision? Very likely. Did that outweigh the benefits of bringing in and keeping a bunch of happy kids nagging their parents for presents? Well, he always hit his sales targets...

 

And yes, he'd do house rules/restrictions for stuff that was too good for in-store competitions to make it fairer. And if you were a decent customer that helped build a nice experience in-store and sometimes bought stuff, he'd turn a blind eye to reasonable amounts of non-GW stuff (and forge world) and let you use the space in back, as long as you weren't bragging about it or telling some 12 year old to throw away whatever cool thing they loved the look of (but with somewhat mediocre rules). He was the person that got me to work for GW, for a while anyway, because he did make it actually enjoyable to be in there.

 

So anyways. Banning forge world isn't necessarily *about* forge world as it exists now - and GW like to maintain the appearance of the retail stores, and forge world, being independently run, even if it's not entirely true.

 

Was going to write a big long post about exactly that. Having played at a number of GWs in Australia and the UK over the past many, many years, GW Managers, on the whole, don't have time to care overmuch about the balance of individual games played in their stores. They care about the bigger picture stuff like hitting those sales targets. You bringing in a Spartan/Sicaran/Deimos Predator/Contemptor/whatever else doesn't help them sell the plastic Land Raiders/Repulsors/regular Predators or the crappy monopose Contemptor. The more interesting (IMHO) and better looking FW models get attention, and potentially take sales away from the store, and thus the store manager's bottom line. At a guess, I'd say that accounts for probably 90% of the resistance to FW models being allowed in store. Personally, I've got no problem with this. Dude's/Dudette's gotta make a living.

 

Please note that I say this as someone who exclusively plays 30k and thus can't get a game in a GW store, let alone bring in my FW models. biggrin.png


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Stru is correct.

 

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#20
Claws and Effect

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Ordering FW through the stores should be a thing.

It would solve all those problems at once.
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#21
Canadian_F_H

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Ordering FW through the stores should be a thing.

It would solve all those problems at once.


Agreed.

And good for everyone.

Another access option is good for us.

The store could/should benifit financially for making the sale

The store being able to make sales on items they dont need to actually stock is good for how small the shops are.

Gw would probably get more sales overall via FW as well as having greater foot traffic in their shops.
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What signature?

#22
StruManChu

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The reason why in-store ordering for FW stuff hasn't happened yet (I have this on relatively good authority) is that they simply don't have the capacity to roll it out worldwide. The few items that FW have released into GW stores (Praetor Tribune, Primus Medicae and the UM Herald) have sold pretty well, so if the initial demand was similarly high, there would be potential delays in getting stock out to everyone who ordered something, which would put a bad taste in people's mouths.

 

It's true that GW's manufacturing facilities in the UK are expanding and with that FW will be able to produce more stock, but it doesn't necessarily follow that that stock then gets shipped over the world for distribution in the same way as mainline GW stuff does, aside from to the shiny new Warhammer Citadel in Texas (I think). 

 

Remember, the last time they did a LCTB thing, it was going to take up to 35 days for people's orders to ship. That was just people using the Forgeworld site. If you open that up to all of GW's customer base, you just end up exacerbating that issue, because the demand is way, way outstripping the ability to supply. I'm sure it will happen at some point, but from an operational perspective, unfortunately now's just not the time.


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Stru is correct.

 

My Plog - Tales of a Lazy Hobbyist

 

 

Part of the ship, part of the crew...


#23
Slips

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One thing I'll never understand is why people think buying FW is pay to win when you have to buy everything in your army to begin with.

 

If buying a Castellan (pre-nerfs) from GW didn't count as P2W while buying a Leviathan Dreadnought from FW did, I seriously question how that argument could be made.

 

Since this game is not Free-To-Play, saying that everything in 40k isn't pay-to-win to begin with (and thus not pay-to-win since all players are essentially on a level playing field) seem VERY odd since the only seemingly limiting factor delineating Pay-To-Win for 40k would be the given players budget to buy stuff at any given time.

 

https://en.wikipedia...play#Pay-to-win


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#24
Chaplain Lucifer

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What I would do would be getting some some signatures for some sort of petition and present it to said manager. If you get a good number of people behind you, maybe he changes his mind.
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#25
Biscuittzz

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FW was once insanely overpowered in comparison to normal units and rules. Those times are long gone however and in my opinion the main reasons have already been touched upon: 1) FW units being used will eat into the sales of the store and 2) FW as of yet cannot be sold or ordered through stores as the logistics/supply chain/ storage etc just isn't up to date yet, not to mention the profit margins.

 

Imagine a young beginner comes into a store and sees FW being used, instantly wants that model ( as we all experienced when younger first going into a GW store) and instead of buying in-store items goes and uses the website. Store manager loses out.

 

Alongside this FW probably know that FW resin is more complicated than normal plastic and so is not aimed at the average store-goer. If you know about FW, you're probably buying it online anyway. 

 

Finally, placing a FW order through the website and placing an order through a store will not yield the same profit for GW. Placing an order through a store will cause the overheads of that store to become a deduction on the revenue of any FW products bought this way. GW will either have to swallow that loss and hope that increased volume/visibility makes up for the difference or else charge more for FW bought in-store compared to online. It's a lot more complicated than just moving net revenue from FWs online accounts to the accounts of a store.


Edited by Biscuittzz, 13 June 2019 - 03:30 PM.

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