GW and the Forge World question- an official response

[Canadian_F_H]

Well. Besides the nitty gritty of gains in losses at smaller elements of the whole. Ie. A loss at a given store, or the increased overhead on an online order.

 

GW would make the over all decision based on tge overall financial picture and the way i see it the big unknown that would have to offset the various costs is this.

 

How much more overall FW sales would they get? This question has a hidden variable. How many people dont buy FW today because they cant use the product in a GW store?

 

If my gaming depended heavily/entirely on going to a GW shop that has and will continue to ban FW, then i would basically never buy anything from FW. Why would anyone who has no other good options for gaming except at a GW shop that bans forgeworld ever entertain purchasing thousands of dollars of resin from FW?

 

A full HH army costs thousands of dollars.

 

If 1000 people world wide would but wont buy a HH army that may easily average 2000usd per army, thats 2million dollars

[Biscuittzz]

Well. Besides the nitty gritty of gains in losses at smaller elements of the whole. Ie. A loss at a given store, or the increased overhead on an online order.

 

GW would make the over all decision based on tge overall financial picture and the way i see it the big unknown that would have to offset the various costs is this.

 

How much more overall FW sales would they get? This question has a hidden variable. How many people dont buy FW today because they cant use the product in a GW store?

 

If my gaming depended heavily/entirely on going to a GW shop that has and will continue to ban FW, then i would basically never buy anything from FW. Why would anyone who has no other good options for gaming except at a GW shop that bans forgeworld ever entertain purchasing thousands of dollars of resin from FW?

 

A full HH army costs thousands of dollars.

 

If 1000 people world wide would but wont buy a HH army that may easily average 2000usd per army, thats 2million dollars

 

Your first point hits the nail on the head and I'd say the reason we don't see FW in stores is because GW have already done the numbers and have accepted that the overall effort/risk of introducing FW to shops isn't worth the marginal profit increase. It could be added to the fact that FW is most likely doing very well and selling strongly through its website alone. Just look at the success of 30k, specialist games, the renewed interest in LoTR etc.

 

Onto your second point, while technically it is a variable yes, I can't see FW being unusable in stores as a major reason for not buying it.

[Canadian_F_H]

Quite true. Its always easier to know about your customers than your non customers. Too much risk, not enough reward.

[MegaVolt87]

That's where I disagree here. The FW customer still needs mainline GW kits. This is where good retail staff are forged- the cross sell and up-sell. They may lose my money on some FW units, but what about saying something like after seeing me play a few games "hey, cultists would help you out, here are popular models that are good for cultists."etc. Even if you might fail at selling me miniatures, I am buying paint, books etc. The real solution is to have FW store orders count towards the store sales targets, the revenue is still heading back to GW. Your store gains more customers with wargamers with good armies, skill level etc. There is an X wing community that started at a smaller games store, one of the guys was a player who frequented worlds. It has exploded, all the X wing product goes through that store from those players. Same principle for a Warhammer store, more players with unique armies, who have a decent skill attract others to come to a store. Store photos of painted FW stuff on the table also looks good on everyone's social media accounts. 

[D3L]

The reason why in-store ordering for FW stuff hasn't happened yet 

ahem, pre-2004, they did ship directly to stores, free shipping too, naturally 

Edited June 19, 2019 by D3L

[Slasher956]

Used to have a PC in store that was logged in to FW & GW where you put your order in and then paid at the till, then collect it from the store a week or so later..

[Stoic Raptor]

What I would do would be getting some some signatures for some sort of petition and present it to said manager. If you get a good number of people behind you, maybe he changes his mind.

 

A petition won't accomplish any more than that initial letter to GW.  But I'll tell you what will:

 

MONEY TALKS.  VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET.

 

There's a GW store in my area, the previous manager was pretty laid back and realized that people who play in the store are more likely to spend in the store.  He wasn't picky if you had third-party heads on your models or if you painted in the store using Raphael brushes.  When he was running the store, I spend a couple thousand dollars a year there.

 

The new manager is a sarariman through and through.  He probably sings the GW company hymn in the shower every morning.  He's ironclad about prohibiting anything that's not GW - bits, models, paints, tools.  Consequently, I only stop in there when absolutely necessary - if I need something I can't get anywhere else at the moment.  Many of the other long-time players and big spenders have done the same.  All of the "hobby heroes" that could be teaching new blood how to paint and play aren't there, because the hobbyist who only spends his money on and at GW is a myth that exists only in the mind of the GW corporation.

 

Mind you, I still spend several thousand dollars a year on the hobby, I just don't spend it there  The owner of my FLGS is no doubt delighted by this - as he realizes that a welcoming environment for players is conducive to a spending environment for customers.  And I feel better knowing that my purchases are supporting a local small businessman and his family.

 

I don't need to write a letter to GW about it, because I know my concerns will fall upon deaf ears but my opinion will be reflected in the sales figures for the store.  Corporate knows their margins are higher on in-store and direct sales because they are cutting out the middleman.  That store needs me more than I need them - especially in the day and age of online shopping.

[Lord Marshal]

He's ironclad about prohibiting anything that's not GW - bits, models, paints, tools. 

 

"Hm, those fatigues look more like Vallejo's Desert Yellow than Citadel Zandri Dust! Get out of my store Timothy, you disgusting traitor!"

 

I've got a few GW stores around my end, but of them, one is my favourite just because the manager doesn't try to shove the party manifesto down my throat every time I glance in the direction of a certain product. His shilling only goes as far as the campaigns he runs scoring you points if you buy a product from his store and I don't know if that's an order that came down from head office or not. Anyway getting back to my original point, he doesn't allow Forge World products to be used because... you can't buy Forge World from the store directly, rather than anything to do with rules.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Lord Marshal

[Slasher956]

it sounds like its a 'sales tactic'... oh you need a super heavy buy X off the shelf....

 

Which leads me back to the point I made about being a sisters player.*... IF the store doesnt allow FW because they sell them in store, DO they allow you to play Sister of Battle?  because they are all direct only.....

 

So see if you can get a Sisters player to go to the store... and if they are not asked to pack up straight away cry 'hypocrisy' and pull out the FW stuff

 

*in the other FW bans thread

Edited June 24, 2019 by Slasher956

[Lord Marshal]

it sounds like its a 'sales tactic'... oh you need a super heavy buy X off the shelf....

 

Which leads me back to the point I made about being a sisters player.*... IF the store doesnt allow FW because they sell them in store, DO they allow you to play Sister of Battle?  because they are all direct only.....

 

So see if you can get a Sisters player to go to the store... and if they are not asked to pack up straight away cry 'hypocrisy' and pull out the FW stuff

 

*in the other FW bans thread

 

As I understand it, if you order Direct Only from their in-store computer kiosk then that store gets the sale. I heard some horror stories that if you have it delivered to your home they don't count, but I don't know if that still holds true these days. So technically you can get Sisters in-store.

 

Like others have said, it used to be you could order Forge World from said kiosks (or a catalogue form) but they scrapped that years ago. Presumably if they returned that service they'd universally permit it. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Lord Marshal

[Slasher956]

But the point is you cant pick sisters up off the shelf (currently) just like you cant pick up forge world stuff..... how are the general public (ie the parents, randoms off the street etc) supposed to know that this 'order of the internet' is ok but this one isnt?

 

Plus it only used to count if you payed for it via the till & as I said a few post up ...I'm not even sure that the stores have their computer kiosks anymore... But no matter what spin you put on it, Sisters are currently in the same basket as forge world - that is manufactured in Nottingham at warhammer world* but you cant pick a unit off the shelf, buy it and start assembling it there and then.... so any attempt to 'ban' only FW by a store is double standards :p

 

Ok this argument only has a few months left... but still...

 

 

*not sure if the US citidel makes them as well or if its all shipped in from the UK.

[Lord Marshal]

But the point is you cant pick sisters up off the shelf (currently) just like you cant pick up forge world stuff..... how are the general public (ie the parents, randoms off the street etc) supposed to know that this 'order of the internet' is ok but this one isnt?

 

Plus it only used to count if you payed for it via the till & as I said a few post up ...I'm not even sure that the stores have their computer kiosks anymore... But no matter what spin you put on it, Sisters are currently in the same basket as forge world - that is manufactured in Nottingham at warhammer world* but you cant pick a unit off the shelf, buy it and start assembling it there and then.... so any attempt to 'ban' only FW by a store is double standards

 

Ok this argument only has a few months left... but still...

 

 

*not sure if the US citidel makes them as well or if its all shipped in from the UK.

 

You can order Sisters from the store. 

 

You can't order Forge World from the store.

 

That's the difference really. 

[Stoic Raptor]

 

He's ironclad about prohibiting anything that's not GW - bits, models, paints, tools. 

 

"Hm, those fatigues look more like Vallejo's Desert Yellow than Citadel Zandri Dust! Get out of my store Timothy, you disgusting traitor!"

 

 

I'm talking about using them in the store.  I don't hang out in the store and paint because I'm not about to be limited only to Citadel paints, brushes, and overpriced hobby tools to do it.  So when the GW manager puts a call out for "hobby heroes" to teach the new blood how to paint, he doesn't get much of a response - any experienced painter uses whatever works best, and isn't bound to a brand.

 

Seriously, the reason I use non-Citadel brushes is because I can get better ones for about the same price.  So they haven't lost a potential sale, because that's not money I was ever going to give GW anyhow.  The only reason the studio painters use them is because they can get new ones whenever their current brushes go bad (probably weekly) and I'd honestly be surprised if they don't use better ones off-camera too.

[Panzer]

It's not speculation or anything. GW told us themselves that they earn more from what FLGS sell than from what their own stores sell due the overhead.