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astartes film episode 4 out now


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#101
Waking Dreamer

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It's good to know in the next part he'll have this mission/story complete. Definitely something appealing to introduce people to the WH40K-verse with.
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#102
Spinsanity

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I think my favourite part was the Bolter 'shells' exploding after a few seconds when getting caught by the psykers shield (whether that shield was actually a psyker ability or technology is not 100% clear though) showing that Bolters actually use explosive ammunition.


I enjoyed that part too, really nice attention to detail.

It's refreshing to see unanimous praise for something; GW really need to bring this on board officially.
Actually, the bolter shells getting caught in the force field is the one thing that bothers me in this sequence, as I’d have expected marines, even considering the caliber of the boltguns, to have a smaller bullet spread than that; I would have liked them to be so constant in their aim that every second bolt hit and burst against the previous one, not just shoot a few inches off target like they do in there...
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#103
MajorNese

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Interesting interview. Also confirms it - Astartes are at fluff speed, unlike the typical slower marine and bolter RoF to show these are the big guys.

 

Actually, the bolter shells getting caught in the force field is the one thing that bothers me in this sequence, as I’d have expected marines, even considering the caliber of the boltguns, to have a smaller bullet spread than that; I would have liked them to be so constant in their aim that every second bolt hit and burst against the previous one, not just shoot a few inches off target like they do in there...

Well, considering they seemed to know the bolt shells are not going to work, it would have made more sense to spread them out.

It was a distraction to get their guys closer, spreading the shots out means obstructing a larger field of vision and maybe requiring more concentration on the force field to keep the projectiles at bay. If they thought they could kill those guys with bolter shells, they could have gone for single headshots instead of entire magazines first, only to discover that it isn't working.

 

Also, as discussed before, they shoot at the fastest RoF possible for the bolter. Hurl the content of a magazine into their face, disappear before they can strike back, repeat. Which even requires them to brace against the railing, but still works well enough without. It was not their focus to kill the target, just suppressive/distractive fire - firing slower but more precise would get them nothing, just exposing themselves longer to potential retaliation.


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#104
RolandTHTG

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I think my favourite part was the Bolter 'shells' exploding after a few seconds when getting caught by the psykers shield (whether that shield was actually a psyker ability or technology is not 100% clear though) showing that Bolters actually use explosive ammunition.

I enjoyed that part too, really nice attention to detail.

It's refreshing to see unanimous praise for something; GW really need to bring this on board officially.
Actually, the bolter shells getting caught in the force field is the one thing that bothers me in this sequence, as I’d have expected marines, even considering the caliber of the boltguns, to have a smaller bullet spread than that; I would have liked them to be so constant in their aim that every second bolt hit and burst against the previous one, not just shoot a few inches off target like they do in there...

I don't know if the filmmaker did the research, but modern combat shooting theory actually trains for that "inaccuracy" (or rather doesn't worry about it). The thought is that while a single spot may be a bad hit due to not hitting anything vital or being deflected by armor of some kind, if you vary the hits over the target area, something will be the shot you need.
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#105
jbaeza94

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To be fair, in training for deathwing, belial tells the new dw to stop worrying about accuracy with a storm bolter, just overwhelm the target in fire.
I dont imagine max rpm bolter would be easy to control, especially if a terminator cant fully control storm bolter at the cyclic rate
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#106
Dracos

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Actually, the bolter shells getting caught in the force field is the one thing that bothers me in this sequence, as I’d have expected marines, even considering the caliber of the boltguns, to have a smaller bullet spread than that; I would have liked them to be so constant in their aim that every second bolt hit and burst against the previous one, not just shoot a few inches off target like they do in there...


What MajorNese said . . . and it’s just more cinematic. I’m all for grounded tactics and such, but as in many things of this nature . . . Rule of Cool trumps Realism 4 out of 5 times ;)
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#107
Gederas

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To be fair, in training for deathwing, belial tells the new dw to stop worrying about accuracy with a storm bolter, just overwhelm the target in fire.
I dont imagine max rpm bolter would be easy to control, especially if a terminator cant fully control storm bolter at the cyclic rate

Honestly, I feel that's the one thing that's bugged me about the setting:

Bolters are described as using a gyrojet-based system for firing, but they seemed to have ignored two things about gyrojets:

One: They're caseless ammunition (this video did get the part that bolters and gyrojets are actually miniature rockets though)

Two: Due to how gyrojets work, they're RECOILESS.

 

You see it in every visual depiction of Marines, the Ultramarine movie, this film series, the Dawn of War cinematics.... They all show bolters with recoil when they shouldn't laugh.png

 

Edit: Wow all those typos, don't post before caffeine kids :lol:


Edited by Gederas, 14 July 2019 - 02:16 PM.


#108
jbaeza94

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Bolters have 2 stage ammo though. A conventional method to accelerate and move the round out of the barrel, and a rocket that fires after the round leaves the barrel. The rocket alone was too much pressure for the guns.
A .75 caliber (19mm) round would have immense recoil, even if it only propelled the round to high subsonic speeds (900-1000fps range). A downfall of real gyrojet is they start slow and only get faster with time, lowering their lethality at close range. While im sure 40k has faster burning propellants, that "less lethal" range would still exist unless already propelled to kill speeds before rockets take over.

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#109
Slips

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Yeah, Bolt Shells have always been depicted as 2-Stage Projectiles because it they were pure Gyrojets, you wouldn't be able to put a bolters muzzle up to someones skull and blow their brains out that way since the round would not have had the time to accelerate to lethal speeds.


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#110
Brother Chaplain Kage

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It's still dumb and doesn't make sense though. The shell would have to be enormous to house not only the second stage fuel and the actual bullet carrying the explosive payload, but enough gun powder to propel the round at velocities capable of blowing someone's head off point blank and also power the gas-operated or gas-assisted reloading mechanism. In that case (haha, gun pun) the cartridge would be much longer like that of a rifle with the case many times the size of the bullet instead of the pistol-like cartridge of a bolter where the case is much closer in size to the bullet (technically making bolters submachine guns). 


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#111
Slips

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I mean, thats basically what they show in the Spacehulk: Deathwing trailer at 0:45 https://www.youtube....h?v=WGmmXd8r4YQ

 

Veeeeery long cartridges.


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#112
Brother Chaplain Kage

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Which don't correspond to the barrel diameter at all. Firearms in this game are a nightmare storm of inconsistency, ignorance, and outright implausibility.
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#113
redmapa

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That sounds like everything in 40k, not sure why you are drawing the line at weaponry but not on the myriad of other things that are just as implausible.
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#114
Chaplain Lucifer

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When people start dissecting space magic and forgetting about the topic means the thread is at an end... Let me button this one up and we will wait anxiously for the 5th installment.
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