Death Guard/Nurgle Daemons ITC 2K feedback required

[Arufel87]

Looking for some feedback on the following:

 

Death Guard Spearhead

 

Daemon Prince, Malefic Talon, Wings, Fugaris’ Helm, Arch Contaminator

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannons,

Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannons,

Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannons,

Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher

 

Chaos Daemon Battalion (-1CP)

 

Daemon Prince, Wings, Corruption

Poxbringer

28 Plaguebearers, Banner, Icon

28 Plaguebearers, Banner, Icon

3 Nurgling Bases

 

Nurgle Spearhead

 

Sloppity Bilepiper

Plagueburst Crawler, Plaguespitters Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, Plaguespitters Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, Plaguespitters Heavy Slugger

[CMDR_Welles]

 

i cant really comment on game wise

 

But this is the A-typical cancerous (as in ultra-cheese) Net List.

 

Its not going to win you any friends, and might just lose a few...

 

It's barely a Death Guard army...

[Ifrit446]

I agree with Welles, this is barely able to be called a Death Guard list...

 

Also, couldn't you use the daemons as a battalion since you have the requirements? 

[Special Officer Doofy]

It's competitive and tournament worthy but that's it. No one in my group would play with you that's for sure haha.

[Arufel87]

Cheers guys. In truth, I rarely play competitively within my own gaming group but we have a local tourney once a year in which I need to up my game. This is why I come seeking advice.

[CMDR_Welles]

Cheers guys. In truth, I rarely play competitively within my own gaming group but we have a local tourney once a year in which I need to up my game. This is why I come seeking advice.

Unlike the normal net list, you've got actual troops in the Plaguebearers and Nurglings to take and hold objectives with. IT should work fine in that regard.

 

Personally, just the thought of buying three Deredeo for a one use only unit makes me twitch...

[Zombs]

Good list honestly nothing to say ahahah. Only thing I would change the fugaris helm with the plate. It makes your warlord harder to kill and scarier to face 1v1.

[Sherrypie]

Good list honestly nothing to say ahahah. Only thing I would change the fugaris helm with the plate. It makes your warlord harder to kill and scarier to face 1v1.

Except if this list is going to a tournament to smash face, the Helm might be better to allow your line of Crawlers to take more area while still rerolling all those spitter shots. Having that on three engines will outdamage the wounds from the Plate, while the Prince is a character anyway (thus being relatively safe until its charge). Alternatively, larger reroll bubble to keep the Deredeos hitting is also good.

 

This list looks more geared for shooting damage / demon swamping anyway, so actively seeking to throw the Prince in something actually dangerous seems somewhat counterproductive more often than not. Keeping the warmachines firing and answering sudden threats suits it well.

[Special Officer Doofy]

@sherrypie remember that the spitters auto hit and that the helm does not work on warlord traits such as arch contaminator for wound rerolls. Has to be a datasheet rule like the hit reroll which isn't needed. The plate is better in most cases.

[Sherrypie]

@sherrypie remember that the spitters auto hit and that the helm does not work on warlord traits such as arch contaminator for wound rerolls. Has to be a datasheet rule like the hit reroll which isn't needed. The plate is better in most cases.

 

Except that is does and always has, and is now in the FAQ too:

 

Page 100 – Fugaris Helm

Change this ability to read:

‘Increase the range of the bearer’s aura abilities (e.g.

Arch-contaminator, Nurgle’s Gift, Tocsin of Misery etc.)

by 3".’

[Arufel87]

I went with Fugaris' because protecting the warlord in ITC missions can be critical and if I mess up my positioning in a previous turn then the extra range on the prince's buff auras is handy. I tend to ram the second daemon prince into something nasty and be cagey with my warlord. Edited June 20, 2019 by Arufel87

[Special Officer Doofy]

@sherrypie o nice I just read it. I don't think it always has though RAW, maybe RAI. If it always did they wouldn't have changed it in the faq. I feel like deathguard still need more relics. Edited June 20, 2019 by Putrid Choir

[Sherrypie]

@sherrypie o nice I just read it. I don't think it always has though RAW, maybe RAI. If it always did they wouldn't have changed it in the faq. I feel like deathguard still need more relics.

By strict RAW, it was previously ambiguous as it wasn't specified if a Warlord trait was added to the model's datasheet and so, but the RAI was always yes. This was how the studio folks had played and they were (as they often are) surprised that many players could have interpreted it the other way. I believe the new wording mainly dropped the word "datasheet" and added Arch-contaminator in the reminder text to clarify the issue further, even if the Spring FAQ as a whole has this wonderful undertone of "seriously folks, why can't you read rules like normal people :cuss" :D

[Panzer]

 

@sherrypie o nice I just read it. I don't think it always has though RAW, maybe RAI. If it always did they wouldn't have changed it in the faq. I feel like deathguard still need more relics.

By strict RAW, it was previously ambiguous as it wasn't specified if a Warlord trait was added to the model's datasheet and so, but the RAI was always yes. This was how the studio folks had played and they were (as they often are) surprised that many players could have interpreted it the other way. I believe the new wording mainly dropped the word "datasheet" and added Arch-contaminator in the reminder text to clarify the issue further, even if the Spring FAQ as a whole has this wonderful undertone of "seriously folks, why can't you read rules like normal people :cuss"

 

Well there are a bunch of dumb questions in the FAQs but I also often want to ask them "seriously guys, why can't you write rules like sane people :cuss". :D

[Special Officer Doofy]

@sfPanzer hahaha right. It's all on GW's for their wording. Warlord traits are not part of a datasheet, so if it was always their intentions for it to work then they worded it wrong day one.

 

@Arufel87 have you had a chance to use / test the list out yet? And if so how did you do.

[Panzer]

@sfPanzer hahaha right. It's all on GW's for their wording. Warlord traits are not part of a datasheet, so if it was always their intentions for it to work then they worded it wrong day one.

 

I didn't say that.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Never said you did. This is getting back off topic from the OP, my bad.

 

"seriously guys, why can't you write rules like sane people :cuss"

 

I was agreeing with you about their obscurity with wording for rules when I said it was mostly GW's fault. Was not trying to put words in your mouth or imply your take on the fugaris prior to the faq, sorry if it came that way sfPanzer. Just if they were more clear in the beginning on wording with their rules they wouldn't need nearly as many faq's and erratas and there would be alot less dumb questions and debates about such topics. I thought that was what you meant. Sherrypies comment implied I'm dumb and can't read a rule and I thought you were defending me.

 

Was just using the fugaris as an example of bad wording (or not sane in this case). If they didn't mean datasheet or meant that included things not printed on the datasheet then why put the word datasheet in the original wording to begin with.

 

Everything I read on the internet and saw in every major tournament including Don Hoosen's death guard they took suppurating plate with their arch contaminator Daemon Prince because the judges said no to fugaris working on a warlord trait. And his list ranged from 10 pbc's to 3 pbc's, 2 drones and 5 Dreadnoughts. So I'm still sticking to that used to be a no on the fugaris, because even in the faq it was NOT a posted Q and A, it was an errata and rule change...

 

At any rate Arufel87, you should Google Don Hoosen's death guard lists, he's placed high in alot of competitive tournaments using death guard lists similar to yours.

[HeresyBeliever]

That is basically the same as my warhammer world GT list i'm now running. I have had a few games and smashed both but have a 1750 point  tournament this weekend. 

 

DG spear head:

Chaos lord WL AC relic Helm

Deredo Butcher cannon HB and havoc

Deredo Butcher cannon HB and havoc

Crauler with spitters

Crauler with spitters

Crauler with spitters

Contemptor butcher cannon

Contemptor Butcher cannon

 

Deamon Battalion;

Poxbringer

Poxbringer

27 Plaguebearers

27 Plaguebearers

3 Nurglings

 

[HeresyBeliever]

The latest FAQ cleared up any debate as it says:

 

Page 100 – Fugaris Helm Change this ability to read: ‘Increase the range of the bearer’s aura abilities (e.g. Arch-contaminator, Nurgle’s Gift, Tocsin of Misery etc.) by 3". 

[Sherrypie]

I apologize if you feel I implied you to be dumb, Putrid Choir. Never was the intention.

[Arufel87]

I actually tried the following today:

 

Death Guard Arch Contaminator Prince & 3 PBCs, Purge Death Hex Sorcerer & 3 Butcher Deredeos plus 1 Cerberus Heavy Destroyer.

 

I face an Imperial list with 2 valiants, armiger, tank commanders and guardsmen. I got death hex off and the cerberus took out both valiants and a russ. Really pricey but deadly against knight. I am not sure if it is too niche for tournament play though. I do feel that butcher cannons don't make really decent consistent anti tank.

 

I've seen Don's blog however I'm nowhere near the player he is. I'm a bit stuck on what to do now and I have to submit a tournament list next week!

[Special Officer Doofy]

Not alot of people are his caliber, I'm certainly not. I feel one of the death guards biggest flaws is their lack of anti tank. Death hex is amazing for this but it's a little niche and not helpful if the spell doesn't go off or sorc gets killed. Your original list I thought was pretty good, good mix of big hard units with some nurgle troops for objectives.

 

Putting myself in your opponents shoes I would want to blow away your objective holders and then put faith in my anti tank is better then yours and win in the shooting. Which means you just need to make that job harder and take more turns, because chances are your anti tank might not be as good. But your Troops are. A large pack of 30 plague bearers with their -1 to get hit stacked with miasma gives them -2 and with 5++/5+++ means hopefully they waste alot of shots on them. I figure stick to your strengths instead of trying to compensate for your weaknesses.

[Sherrypie]

There is a case to be made for double-lascannon Contemptors, if accurate and mobile anti-tank is desired. ~130 points for four lasers hitting on 2+ isn't a bad deal especially if they also hang around a Prince for rerolls.

[Arufel87]

I've been considering the following. I miss out on a deredeo and the board control of the plaguebearers but at least I can do something against a knight or flyer list. Any guidance is welcomed!

 

Death Guard Spearhead

 

Daemon Prince, Wings, Malefic Talon, Fugaris' Helm, Arch Contaminator, Miasma of Pestilence

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters, Heavy Slugger

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannon Array, Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannon Array, Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers

 

Nurgle Battalion

 

Alpha Legion Sorceror, Jump Pack, Force Sword, Death Hex, Prescience

Poxbringer, Fleshy Abundance

3 Nurgling Swarms

3 Nurgling Swarms

3 Nurgling Swarms

 

Lord of War

 

Death Guard Hellforged Cerberus Super Heavy Destroyer

[Arufel87]

Here is the final version of my list. The Cerberus has done fine work against a mixture of opponents and earned it's place despite being suboptimal competitively. I can also use the Chaos Familiar stratagem to swap out for Death Hex or Prescience on the Prince if necessary. Command points are in short supply but most units are self reliant anyway. Any final advice before I submit the list?

 

Death Guard Spearhead

 

Daemon Prince, Wings, Malefic Talon, Fugaris' Helm, Arch Contaminator, Gift of Contagion

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters,

Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters,

Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler, 2 Plaguespitters,

Heavy Slugger

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannon Array,

Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers

Hellforged Deredeo, Butcher Cannon Array,

Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers

 

Nurgle Daemon Patrol

 

Poxbringer, Miasma of Pestilence

29 Plaguebearers, Banner, Icon

3 Nurgling Swarms

 

Chaos Space Marines Lord of War

 

Iron Warriors Hellforged Cerberus Heavy Destroyer