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Primaris marines, how good are they?


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#1
Ultramarine vet

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So, I have been using all regular marines (still feels weird to say) for all of 8th edition, utilizing tactical squads, terminators, etc. But I am planning on using some primaris marines.

My concerns for primaris, are the rather limited mobility. No drop pods, Storm Ravens, or even teleporting such as terminator veterans. Hellblasters, for example, only have Repulsors as a means of transportation. I am thinking I will still be using a lot of regular marines to fullfil the role of taking the fight directly to the enemy. So my question is, how do all you fine folks use primaris marines? Please, any and all help will be much appreciated!

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#2
sfPanzer

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Primaris units are largely decent. Nothing broken and only few things that feel a bit too weak. They don't win tournaments like Eldar or Imperium soup, but they are good enough for casual and semi-competetive matches.

Their main problem is that they don't have many different options yet and rely on rather expensive units. You always want at least a Battalion for the CP so 400-500 points are already gone for just the HQs and 3 Troop choices at min size. Then you require some heavy ranged shooting to deal with tanks and stuff so that's usually another 300-600 points gone for the Repulsors.
Another thing is that Primaris don't really have any Stratagem support, can't use many of the relics because their HQs don't have the weapon options and especially for the more melee focussed chapters they don't really synergize with their chapter tactics (Blood Angels Primaris are neat when they get into melee but none of them are real melee units obviously).

 

So most pure Primaris armies look very similar to eachother.

 

 

About mobility ... it's not really that limited if you think about it. Infiltrators and Eliminators can infiltrate. Reivers, Suppressors and Inceptors can deep strike. You want to take a Repulsor for the firepower anyway so just put your Hellblaster, Intercessors or whatever inside.

No Drop Pods, but you don't use Drop Pods with regular Marines either because most can already take Jump Packs or simply don't need to drop anywhere. No Storm Ravens is true but I figure we'll get a flyer for Primaris eventually too. The range isn't complete yet after all. No teleporting for something like Terminator Veterans because they simply don't have any Veterans yet aside of the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment upgrade. However Inceptors are about as durable as Terminators and they fulfill the role of orbital drop units in the fluff like Drop Pods would all on their own.


How I use Primaris .... well I basically push everything to the middle of the board and claim it as my own. Somewhere on the board Eliminators sit in cover and annoy  my opponent with their 1+ save and the potential high damage on characters (rarely works out unless you face squishy characters like AM ones though). Suppressors stay behind to utilize their 48" range.

Turn 2 or 3 I drop a unit of Inceptors and a unit of Reivers with combat blades on a less well protected flank and overwhelm it. Sometimes I drop the Reivers on a flank with annoying vehicles to bind them in melee. They are basically throwaway units to divert your opponents attention. Don't expect them to deal much damage.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#3
Captain Idaho

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Small Intercessor squads are often added to a list for a bit of staying power holding back field objectives, though Scouts being cheaper usually win out on this especially as you get more competitive.

Reivers are generally rubbish. They just don't have the damage output to be worth anything in a game that can nuke even 10 of them fairly easily, especially if they are out there in the opponents grill.

Hellblasters are great in the right list. Being hit by a unit of them rapid firing is no fun. They love Primaris Ancients.

Aggressors... They have a niche role but the lack of range hurts them quite a bit. Sure they can move and fire but then they don't get the double shots. Raven Guard like them.

Inceptors have great firepower and if they get the drop on opponents they'll cause a problem. They're a bit of a glass cannon in that the opponent will soon turn and concentrate on them.

Eliminators, despite some people thinking otherwise, are great. Having them in a list using Hellblasters and Inceptors will ensure they can't be focused on easily and the ability to snipe characters is going to be painful. I've seen them perform in competitive play and really cause problems for even Marine characters.

Infiltrators are just not really worth it. They have some ability to push back some niche plays but ultimately if you want staying power on a backfield objective then you go Intercessors or you go cheap with Scouts. Some folk like a 5 man Lascannon Tactical squad but that is a little bit of a dying choice.

Suppressors I'm not sure on as I've not seen them played competitively. They are okay on paper but lack staying or killing power. Their suppression effect is better working with Classic Marines which shows you the problem with the Primaris range.

Repulsors are good. 3+ save is a weakness as they suffer wounds against S9 (common anti tank) the same as any Rhino or even Ork Trukk. Otherwise they're really offensive and a couple can anchor an army of Primaris. Biggest weakness will be obsolescence now that the big bad Heavy Laser Destroyer is coming in. Why take one ever again if all you want is a gun platform, especially as these will be filling Heavy slots for Spearheads.

Redemptor Dreadnoughts are gun platforms largely and good at it. I'd like them to ignore modifiers when moving and firing but they will mince infantry. A Redemptor and 2 Repulsors look imposing.

Hmmm. Aside from characters I think I've covered everything.

***

In summary I'd say the all Primaris army is very much middle of the road in competitive play but you can have some fun with it and may surprise people. Lack of Strategum support is a problem but not the reason Primaris might struggle. The problem is the same for Classic Marines - paying premium points for models that die fairly easily, even with 2 wounds.

Hope I've helped with an objective review based on competitive play but with an eye towards fun games (my style is a hyrbid of the 2).

The lack of mobility is an issue as you've mentioned as to get mobility you need to fork out quite a lot of points for Repulsors or take units like Reivers that just aren't so good or the likes of Aggressors who sacrifice firepower to move and Inceptors that drop in and get blasted the turn off if left alone.

Edited by Captain Idaho, 27 June 2019 - 01:50 PM.

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#4
Black Blow Fly

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I’m a big fan of Infiltrators and use them regularly - they are the new scouts and are an excellent deterrent versus any army with reinforcements such as GSC.

Veteran Intercessors are top tier imo with the rapid fire 2 stratagem from Vigilus. They have an extra base attack and +1 leadership... Ultramarines Vets are actually leadership 10.

Don’t feel like you have to go full Primaris. My go to units are Intercessors, Infiltrators, Hellblasters and Inceptors (plasma).
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#5
Jarl Caldersson

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I am no competition player, or seasoned by any means. I just feel like primaris rely on what SM chapter you use to be really effective. I played as RG and did pretty good with my primaris against his nids. However when I play my SW tactic i utterly got smashed by his nids. When you play SW you want to be in melee and in the enemy face, however primaris I feel lack the melee capability right now. They aren't awful at it, but just lack the unique weapon to put them at a good melee position.

I imagine chapters like UM and IF, primaris do great as.
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#6
sfPanzer

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Yeah, while they don't really suck in melee they aren't exactly good either. You can send them against any shooty opponent into melee without feeling bad about it, but don't do that against actual melee units.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#7
Kenzaburo

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So as I've been secretly eyeing the Shadowspear box - all those Phobos Primaris, they are not Reivers, but standard Primaris with just different-looking armour, right? Or are they considered a different marine-type alltogether? From what I read here, you guys don't seem all that happy with those units apart from the snipers. 

 

That the Primaris lack any kind of real CC units and flexible heavy weapons units seems still strange to me. Overall, from what I can gather, purely Primaris armies seem so limited in flexibility which is the usual trademark of marines. 


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#8
sfPanzer

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So as I've been secretly eyeing the Shadowspear box - all those Phobos Primaris, they are not Reivers, but standard Primaris with just different-looking armour, right? Or are they considered a different marine-type alltogether? From what I read here, you guys don't seem all that happy with those units apart from the snipers. 

 

That the Primaris lack any kind of real CC units and flexible heavy weapons units seems still strange to me. Overall, from what I can gather, purely Primaris armies seem so limited in flexibility which is the usual trademark of marines. 

 

Not sure what you mean with "just different-looking armour" and "different marine-type alltogether". Infiltrators are a Primaris Troop choice with the Phobos keyword that have different weapons, special rules and costs than Intercessors and Reivers if that's what you mean.

 

Eliminators are fine, they stand out the most by how much they can tank when in cover for me. I'm looking forward to the Lasfusils loadout we'll be getting soon-ish. Suppressors are pretty good actually. Ignore their mobility because most of the time you don't want to move them with their Heavy weapons, but they are cheap and put out good damage for their points. You want to use more than just one unit of 3 though (which shouldn't be a problem because they are so cheap).

 

Primaris are still in process of getting released. Instead of having one huge release like with Death Guard etc, GWs aim here is to get us used to Primaris slowly over the years so to not upset people with a big collection of classic Marines too much.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#9
Trevak Dal

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Just looking at a "blended force" concept, using either Vanilla or maybe Deathwatch. Core of Primaris intecessor units, some Repulsors as support/transport and vanguard veterans as a skirmishing/melee unit to back up a smash captain, could maybe focus them into a Vanguard detachment/Outrider detachment depending on codex (I think vanguard vets are fast attack in Deathwatch)

Deathwatch gives some unique tricks with blended Primaris squads (5 Intecessors and some hellblasters say) plus teleportation strat for one command point per unit.


To further comment on Primaris marines:

They have the statlines that Tactical Marines should have. They aren't made for combat, they are made primarily for shooting, and assaulting weakened forces, maybe in conjunction with some reivers or a dred/hq to make quick work out of a softened target, like older CSM With Bolter/Bolt/Pistol/Chainswords / Greyhunters now. You hit them with Bolters and then can maybe have the combat prowess of assault marines, it worked well for me with my chaos Marines.

Vanguard veterans are a dedicated melee unit in that they have 2 base attacks and can take good melee upgrades (power weapons) or you can go ultimate Blender Bois with dual chainswords.

The two attacks of a Primaris are insurance, not assurance.

Edited by Trevak Dal, 17 July 2019 - 01:44 PM.

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#10
Claws and Effect

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Deathwatch gives some unique tricks with blended Primaris squads (5 Intecessors and some hellblasters say) plus teleportation strat for one command point per unit.


I prefer adding Aggressors to an Intercessor squad armed with auto bolt rifles. You lose out on Bolter Discipline, but the idea here is to have a unit that can advance and shoot at no penalty (Aggressors give that to the whole unit when you add them). Losing Bolter Discipline isn't a big deal with Deathwatch either, since you can't use it with Special Issue Ammo.

#11
sfPanzer

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Trading AP and range to gain an extra 2.5" of movement (the Aggressor has only M5 so the whole unit can't keep moving the usual 6" before adding the advance roll) is not that great imo unless you REALLY need that unit to be mobile.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg


#12
justicarius6

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Aggressors have a good close combat punch, and if you give them flamers they need to move up quickly so every extra inch counts.

Edited by justicarius6, 27 July 2019 - 10:28 PM.


#13
sfPanzer

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Aggressors are okay in melee. On average it's just one powerfist hit per model due just WS3+ A2 and a weapon with a hit penalty. Just don't give them flamers if you care about them being anywhere near competetive. They can advance and shoot with their bolters just fine thanks to their Relentless Advance special rule and do on average more damage than with flamers and with 10" more range. Literally the only thing that's better about flamers is the overwatch.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpgbFk9acX.pnggallery_62972_14467_40478.pnggallery_62972_14467_3819.jpggallery_62972_10568_4118.jpg





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