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Disappointed with new Sister

Adepta Sororitas

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#26
MegaVolt87

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If this is limited edition, get two then ebay one in a few years to make a profit. 


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#27
Mekhitar

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Well, as a Flawless Host chaos player, perhaps my madness is perfectly in character. ;)

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#28
tvih

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I'll admit that its just the one model, but do you really think that the new line won't have been made to match?

At any rate, I will admit that matching scale is my own personal issue. You don't want to see what I did to keep my 15mm Napoleonics consistent when the manufacturer went out of business. A plastic battle sister standing as tall as she does compared to the old metal ones might not be an issue for you, but there is no way I would want them fielded together in my army. Her matching the pointed toe of St Celestine isn't promising when she's standing flat footed. Again, my own personal standard for my own personal army of my own personal models.

As far as replacing a fully army of metal models with plastics. If I was in that mindset (I'm not) I would want to see the rules first. I don't think even the Beta feedback will produce a Dex half as good as the Index was. We had a gem with the Index, it was a glorious mistake just like the 3ed black book list was quite good, until they fixed it. I would say we're a couple decades out from such a thing happening again.

 

I was comparing to a metal Seraphim, not Celestine. As I've already said - the only reason Amalia seems so tall is because of her upright pose. I mean that aspect was very clear starting from the first teaser render. If her miniature's total height was that of a metal Battle Sister, she'd be a Squat more than a human . Will she stand out compared to regular metal infantry sisters? Yes, she's about a head taller (without her scenic base) but 80% of it is because of the pose. And also because... well. When Keanu Reeves said "You're breathtaking!" he was actually talking to the Amalia miniature tongue.png

I certainly wouldn't mind having an all-plastic Sisters army especially if the rest are anywhere near as good as this, but it's not financially practical at all for me, nor sensible given how little I play. Selling 20 metal sisters would buy me probably 5 plastic ones. So as much as I hate painting/working with metal, I reckon I'll keep painting the unpainted metal ones I have for the difference - not to mention the effort put into the already painted ones. Even if/though the plastic ones are better, the metal ones still look good on their own right - that hasn't changed. So I'll just have to make do with a few plastic boxes mixed with rest.



#29
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GW has already shown CAD pictures. If anyone actually questions plastics that’s completely absurd.
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#30
dracpanzer

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I find it absolutely hilarious some people are complaining about plastic sisters ...


Complaining? I'm not. The scale looks to be much larger than the metals. I have said from the start that a noticeable scale difference would be a non starter from me. I have hundreds of painted Sisters in my collection that I started the day they hit the shelf. If the line is of the same scale as this model, I won't be buying any. I'll happily keep plugging along with what I have and attempt to convert what I need to make up any new units they might make.

I don't think they will, but who knows. As far as replacing anyone's collection of metal for plastic. I just caution that you might want to see the new codex first.
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#31
ERJAK

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Do what ya want, it's your money.

I have 2k set aside so that I never have to deal with another metal model ever again.

Both are fine.

Edited by ERJAK, 04 July 2019 - 02:22 AM.


#32
dracpanzer

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I was comparing to a metal Seraphim, not Celestine. As I've already said - the only reason Amalia seems so tall is because of her upright pose. I mean that aspect was very clear starting from the first teaser render.


I'm making my own comparisons. Her feet are just as wide as most of the metal sisters and she's still a lot taller.

Selling 20 metal sisters would buy me probably 5 plastic ones. So as much as I hate painting/working with metal..


I would agree completely if I had a collection of a few squads. I suspect the value will drop further as we get closer to the release of plastics so if you are looking to off-load, do it now.
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#33
Mekhitar

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That’s my concern. I’m a tournament sisters player wth a hobby focus, and I know the plastics will be gorgeous - I’m definitely going to make the full switch, but I was hoping it would be gradual. Fielding a mixed army - based on the sizes here - isn’t really what I want, so it’s more likely I’m going to make the switch wholesale.

That means taking inventory of my things sooner rather than later, I think. I will say, unlike the thread title, the new plastics are gonna be the opposite of disappointing as far as the hobby side goes!

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#34
Servant of Dante

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I find it absolutely hilarious some people are complaining about plastic sisters ...

Complaining? I'm not. The scale looks to be much larger than the metals. I have said from the start that a noticeable scale difference would be a non starter from me. I have hundreds of painted Sisters in my collection that I started the day they hit the shelf. If the line is of the same scale as this model, I won't be buying any. I'll happily keep plugging along with what I have and attempt to convert what I need to make up any new units they might make.

I don't think they will, but who knows. As far as replacing anyone's collection of metal for plastic. I just caution that you might want to see the new codex first.
Yeah even if the scale is a bit weird I’ll be fielding any plastics I do get alongside my existing collection. I’m not planning anything extravagant, just a few Battle sisters and a couple Seraphim probably. I don’t have the money to replace my collection (and frankly I love the metal sculpts too much even if I did), but if the new stuff looks good i want in on a few of them too :P The new model looks fantastic, scale aside (though too pricy for me at the moment).

Oh, and I quoted you just because I’m jealous of such a vintage collection, I got into 40k a bit older than some (but not so much) and was born a bit later than many of the Fraters in this thread as far as I can tell, so I’ve only had the pleasure of collecting Sisters for about 4 years now (and Blood Angels for maybe 2 years before that) :P

Edited by Servant of Dante, 04 July 2019 - 03:58 AM.

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#35
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To be honest at the start the size difference will help running 2squads of seraphim together and knowing which is which...also means I’ll be able to field some celestians :P
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#36
tvih

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I suspect the value will drop further as we get closer to the release of plastics so if you are looking to off-load, do it now.

 

 

That price estimate (based on some models I actually DID sell) of metal Sisters was last year, it has most likely only gone down since already. Really not worth selling.



#37
Brokejaw Gutripper

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The nice thing is she will stand out as a character or leader on the table top.

Maybe she just ate too many wheaties, came from a high gravity planet that grows big people, or is the Brienne of Tarth of her order.
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#38
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GW has already shown CAD pictures. If anyone actually questions plastics that’s completely absurd.

 

I don't understand your point.  I haven't seen any posts questioning plastics, by which I can only guess you mean plastic models from GW or any other manufacturer.  Judging by what I have seen posted, there seems to be a general consensus that this plastic model is incredible, and just about everyone would very much love to have one.  Personally, while I am sorry it isn't in scale with the wargaming miniatures I already own, and the price seems exorbitant (to me), I know I still want one.  GW has been selling amazing plastic models since their revolutionary release of the original box of Beakies with the Crimson Fists artwork back in the 80's, and their plastic models have only improved since then, arguably to the point of setting the standard by which all such kits now are measured.  One thing that has bothered me in the posts I've read, has been discussion about differing physiques accounting for visible differences in size between this and the other Adepta Sororitas models.  At these scales, even fairly significant differences in height would be imperceptible to the eye, and this is the largest Adepta Sororitas model yet (I believe it's scaled to a 32mm standard, although it could be something smaller).  I plan to later try to phone someone at GW unlucky enough to be working the July 4 holiday to find out, hopefully.  At any of those scales, let's go with the figure being about 6 feet in height.  A visible or measurable difference of even one eighth inch (about 3mm) would be 1/8th of six feet, or 1/8th of 72 inches.  Divide 72 by 8 and we're talking about a difference in height of nine inches (!), and I guesstimate 1/8" to be about the smallest distance able to be accurately resolved by the naked eye.  Anything more than that is closing in on an entire foot of height, and that's not even close to a subjective difference any longer.  Manufacturers today just don't create models with such differences in size, unless the scale has changed.  If the figure is any shorter than six feet, differences in height would be even harder to resolve by eye.  When the difference in size for a model like this is noticeable to the naked eye, the difference is very nearly always going to be significant enough to be a question of scale, not physique.



#39
mithrilforge

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... they're making New sister's in plastic....(21 years in the making) it's up to you as a consumer if you want to buy them or not...if you have a full army of metal sisters that you love playing with then good for you and more power to you,if you think the new sisters will be out of scale with your old ones...your 100% right... this is the "new" GW but it's still GW whistlingW.gif

They want you to buy a whole new army...do they care you have a complete army of metal models...NO, I'm pretty sure they don't care if you can afford them...

they do care about the BOTTOM LINE and the new kiddie consumers out there rolleyesclean.gif  who have more disposable than i care to admit...

We need to get past the fact that they don't care about our gripes about prices,compatibility with existing ranges etc,they only listen to what new models we want...

I'm lucky that i despised metal models and sold them off as soon as plastics were available for the relevant armies i had.... 

I only have one sister of battle and she's plastic cool.png  it's going to take me a while to save up and get a sisters army (perhaps i should have started saving 21 years ago eh sweat.gif)

 

Mithril 


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#40
Bubba Pearson

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... they're making New sister's in plastic....(21 years in the making) it's up to you as a consumer if you want to buy them or not...if you have a full army of metal sisters that you love playing with then good for you and more power to you,if you think the new sisters will be out of scale with your old ones...your 100% right... this is the "new" GW but it's still GW whistlingW.gif

They want you to buy a whole new army...do they care you have a complete army of metal models...NO, I'm pretty sure they don't care if you can afford them...

they do care about the BOTTOM LINE and the new kiddie consumers out there rolleyesclean.gif  who have more disposable than i care to admit...

We need to get past the fact that they don't care about our gripes about prices,compatibility with existing ranges etc,they only listen to what new models we want...

I'm lucky that i despised metal models and sold them off as soon as plastics were available for the relevant armies i had.... 

I only have one sister of battle and she's plastic   it's going to take me a while to save up and get a sisters army (perhaps i should have started saving 21 years ago eh sweat.gif)

 

Mithril 

 

I have to disagree with your assessment that hobbyists need to get past GW not caring about customer opinions, especially with issues as significant as price and compatibility with existing figures and collections.  If folks don't speak up, how is GW to know what they do or don't want?  Even if disenchanted hobbyists don't talk to someone at GW personally, boards such as this probably are examined occasionally by company staff, which hopefully has some effect on their decision-making processes.  If a customer actually reaches a point of believing GW could care less about their patronage, no longer giving them that patronage speaks pretty loudly too.  GW is run as a for-profit company, which in essence is a good thing for everyone (so long as they keep producing miniatures, models, games and associated gear that hobbyists will purchase).  I believe any of us need to speak up when necessary, especially with our wallets.  If GW doesn't mind losing existing customers to make room for new ones, that is exactly what will happen, and I think that would be unfortunate.

 

As an aside, I'd like to ask why you're so disillusioned with metal as a material for producing miniatures.  Regardless of the material out of which a mini is made, it has to be cleaned up, assembled, cleaned up again, primed, painted, based, etc.  Once the miniature is finished, nobody can tell what's underneath the paint, glue, greenstuff and such, and why should they?  My whole philosophy surrounding the hobby is wrapped around the simple idea of buying the miniature that catches my eye and is within my grasp economically.  I do prefer plastic (even over resin -- I don't particularly enjoy using cyanoacrylate adhesives, and plastic is, more often than not, much easier to work with than other base materials), but regardless of the material out of which it's made, if I like it, I buy it.  If you don't mind my asking, what happened to so strongly put you off metal altogether?  


Edited by Bubba Pearson, 05 July 2019 - 09:19 PM.


#41
ERJAK

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... they're making New sister's in plastic....(21 years in the making) it's up to you as a consumer if you want to buy them or not...if you have a full army of metal sisters that you love playing with then good for you and more power to you,if you think the new sisters will be out of scale with your old ones...your 100% right... this is the "new" GW but it's still GW whistlingW.gif
They want you to buy a whole new army...do they care you have a complete army of metal models...NO, I'm pretty sure they don't care if you can afford them...
they do care about the BOTTOM LINE and the new kiddie consumers out there rolleyesclean.gif who have more disposable than i care to admit...
We need to get past the fact that they don't care about our gripes about prices,compatibility with existing ranges etc,they only listen to what new models we want...
I'm lucky that i despised metal models and sold them off as soon as plastics were available for the relevant armies i had....
I only have one sister of battle and she's plastic it's going to take me a while to save up and get a sisters army (perhaps i should have started saving 21 years ago eh sweat.gif)

Mithril


I have to disagree with your assessment that hobbyists need to get past GW not caring about customer opinions, especially with issues as significant as price and compatibility with existing figures and collections. If folks don't speak up, how is GW to know what they do or don't want? Even if disenchanted hobbyists don't talk to someone at GW personally, boards such as this probably are examined occasionally by company staff, which hopefully has some effect on their decision-making processes. If a customer actually reaches a point of believing GW could care less about their patronage, no longer giving them that patronage speaks pretty loudly too. GW is run as a for-profit company, which in essence is a good thing for everyone (so long as they keep producing miniatures, models, games and associated gear that hobbyists will purchase). I believe any of us need to speak up when necessary, especially with our wallets. If GW doesn't mind losing existing customers to make room for new ones, that is exactly what will happen, and I think that would be unfortunate.

As an aside, I'd like to ask why you're so disillusioned with metal as a material for producing miniatures. Regardless of the material out of which a mini is made, it has to be cleaned up, assembled, cleaned up again, primed, painted, based, etc. Once the miniature is finished, nobody can tell what's underneath the paint, glue, greenstuff and such, and why should they? My whole philosophy surrounding the hobby is wrapped around the simple idea of buying the miniature that catches my eye and is within my grasp economically. I do prefer plastic (even over resin -- I don't particularly enjoy using cyanoacrylate adhesives, and plastic is, more often than not, much easier to work with than other base materials), but regardless of the material out of which it's made, if I like it, I buy it. If you don't mind my asking, what happened to so strongly put you off metal altogether?

Not who you're replying to but metal fething sucks. It's rough on paintbrushes, cleaning flash and mold lines on it is a nightmare, it's so heavy that an army case full of metals is difficult to carry and can damage the box itself, it doesn't prime as well as plastic because it's more pouros, paint chips off really easily, even through layers of varnish, they fall apart super easily if they're multipart because of their weight and not being able to use plastic glue. A lot of models, especially larger ones require pinning while also being a hard enough material that pinning is difficult. Weapon swaps or conversions are difficult AND dangerous due to the shrapnel they kick off. They're top heavy so the fall over a lot and damage themselves. Metal is just awful. As soon as SoB are in plastic I will never so much as look at a metal model ever again.

Resin melting in the sun isn't much better.
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#42
Bubba Pearson

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... they're making New sister's in plastic....(21 years in the making) it's up to you as a consumer if you want to buy them or not...if you have a full army of metal sisters that you love playing with then good for you and more power to you,if you think the new sisters will be out of scale with your old ones...your 100% right... this is the "new" GW but it's still GW whistlingW.gif
They want you to buy a whole new army...do they care you have a complete army of metal models...NO, I'm pretty sure they don't care if you can afford them...
they do care about the BOTTOM LINE and the new kiddie consumers out there rolleyesclean.gif who have more disposable than i care to admit...
We need to get past the fact that they don't care about our gripes about prices,compatibility with existing ranges etc,they only listen to what new models we want...
I'm lucky that i despised metal models and sold them off as soon as plastics were available for the relevant armies i had....
I only have one sister of battle and she's plastic it's going to take me a while to save up and get a sisters army (perhaps i should have started saving 21 years ago eh sweat.gif)

Mithril


I have to disagree with your assessment that hobbyists need to get past GW not caring about customer opinions, especially with issues as significant as price and compatibility with existing figures and collections. If folks don't speak up, how is GW to know what they do or don't want? Even if disenchanted hobbyists don't talk to someone at GW personally, boards such as this probably are examined occasionally by company staff, which hopefully has some effect on their decision-making processes. If a customer actually reaches a point of believing GW could care less about their patronage, no longer giving them that patronage speaks pretty loudly too. GW is run as a for-profit company, which in essence is a good thing for everyone (so long as they keep producing miniatures, models, games and associated gear that hobbyists will purchase). I believe any of us need to speak up when necessary, especially with our wallets. If GW doesn't mind losing existing customers to make room for new ones, that is exactly what will happen, and I think that would be unfortunate.

As an aside, I'd like to ask why you're so disillusioned with metal as a material for producing miniatures. Regardless of the material out of which a mini is made, it has to be cleaned up, assembled, cleaned up again, primed, painted, based, etc. Once the miniature is finished, nobody can tell what's underneath the paint, glue, greenstuff and such, and why should they? My whole philosophy surrounding the hobby is wrapped around the simple idea of buying the miniature that catches my eye and is within my grasp economically. I do prefer plastic (even over resin -- I don't particularly enjoy using cyanoacrylate adhesives, and plastic is, more often than not, much easier to work with than other base materials), but regardless of the material out of which it's made, if I like it, I buy it. If you don't mind my asking, what happened to so strongly put you off metal altogether?

Not who you're replying to but metal fething sucks. It's rough on paintbrushes, cleaning flash and mold lines on it is a nightmare, it's so heavy that an army case full of metals is difficult to carry and can damage the box itself, it doesn't prime as well as plastic because it's more pouros, paint chips off really easily, even through layers of varnish, they fall apart super easily if they're multipart because of their weight and not being able to use plastic glue. A lot of models, especially larger ones require pinning while also being a hard enough material that pinning is difficult. Weapon swaps or conversions are difficult AND dangerous due to the shrapnel they kick off. They're top heavy so the fall over a lot and damage themselves. Metal is just awful. As soon as SoB are in plastic I will never so much as look at a metal model ever again.

Resin melting in the sun isn't much better.

 

 

An incredibly beautiful model is released, but it's not available in anything other than metal, so you won't even consider adding it to your collection?  I don't think I could make that decision.  I agree totally that metal is much more difficult to work with than plastic (or resin, although resin has its peccadilloes too), but if I like it (and here's the key word) enough, I'll buy it.  I'd buy a miniature made out of just about anything if I considered it worthy of my attention.  Having said that, I now can see that's probably just about exactly how you must feel too.  You don't consider metal worthy of your attention.

 

Back when we began the hobby, everything was incredibly difficult.  I remember being satisfied just by finishing an unpainted kit, so long as all the pieces were in the right places and adequately connected, there were no glue smears everywhere, no holes or other deficits caused by pulling the pieces off the sprues were evident, clear windows and/or canopies remained clear, and other such triumphs.  Almost immediately after having achieved nirvana however, a paint job became necessary, so the skills for accomplishing that were developed, and so on.  For the very talented, it may have taken less time, but it was experience, dedication and hard work that led to skill sets improving enough to be able to consistently produce good looking results from model kits.  Soon, kits I had ignored, such as vacuum-formed and resin, beckoned.  All this happened again with miniatures, when wargaming piqued my interest, but metal was largely the only game in town, so once again I had to develop the skills necessary to get decent results with those miniatures and kits, particularly after conversions became so thoroughly intertwined with my other hobby interests.

 

Hmmm.  Wait a second; I think I'm going in the wrong direction here.  That's me.  I don't mean to suggest your skills aren't up to snuff.  I think making a choice such as yours actually would be easier for an experienced, rather than inexperienced, modeler.  Even if that isn't true, it doesn't really matter.  Making a decision to forego one model over another because of the material out of which it's made, or any other reason at all, absolutely is your prerogative.   It reduces the models from which one can pick and choose considerably, which would be tough for me, but there's nothing whatever wrong with such a decision.  Thanks for your thoughts.



#43
dracpanzer

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Not who you're replying to but metal fething sucks. It's rough on paintbrushes, cleaning flash and mold lines on it is a nightmare, it's so heavy that an army case full of metals is difficult to carry and can damage the box itself, it doesn't prime as well as plastic because it's more pouros, paint chips off really easily, even through layers of varnish, they fall apart super easily if they're multipart because of their weight and not being able to use plastic glue. A lot of models, especially larger ones require pinning while also being a hard enough material that pinning is difficult. Weapon swaps or conversions are difficult AND dangerous due to the shrapnel they kick off. They're top heavy so the fall over a lot and damage themselves. Metal is just awful. As soon as SoB are in plastic I will never so much as look at a metal model ever again.


I completely agree that metal miniatures are more difficult to work with than plastic minis. I have been working with them since 1980 so I really do get it. My point is simply that for me, my investment in money and most importantly time, in amassing the amount of converted and painted Sisters models that I have rules out just dumping them in favor of the new. The scale change is disappointing though not unforeseen. I'm not angry about it, but I would notice it and speaking from my own experience with scale in my own armies, it will be a hard no.

My worry is simply that the final army and unit rules will be too close to the terribad of the betadex to make it worthwhile for anyone to do it.
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#44
Bubba Pearson

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Not who you're replying to but metal fething sucks. It's rough on paintbrushes, cleaning flash and mold lines on it is a nightmare, it's so heavy that an army case full of metals is difficult to carry and can damage the box itself, it doesn't prime as well as plastic because it's more pouros, paint chips off really easily, even through layers of varnish, they fall apart super easily if they're multipart because of their weight and not being able to use plastic glue. A lot of models, especially larger ones require pinning while also being a hard enough material that pinning is difficult. Weapon swaps or conversions are difficult AND dangerous due to the shrapnel they kick off. They're top heavy so the fall over a lot and damage themselves. Metal is just awful. As soon as SoB are in plastic I will never so much as look at a metal model ever again.


I completely agree that metal miniatures are more difficult to work with than plastic minis. I have been working with them since 1980 so I really do get it. My point is simply that for me, my investment in money and most importantly time, in amassing the amount of converted and painted Sisters models that I have rules out just dumping them in favor of the new. The scale change is disappointing though not unforeseen. I'm not angry about it, but I would notice it and speaking from my own experience with scale in my own armies, it will be a hard no.

My worry is simply that the final army and unit rules will be too close to the terribad of the betadex to make it worthwhile for anyone to do it.

 

 

I couldn't help but notice you and I seem to have been in the hobby close to the same amount of time.  Sorry. ;-)  What a ride it's been!  I can get right behind the point you raised.  When it comes to the new model, I'm not angry either, although I am disappointed.  Based on GW's most recent history of releases (primarily the previously "newest" 30mm figures), the size of this model, even larger than those, did catch me almost completely by surprise.  Even so, it's a great looking model, so I'll still probably acquire one some day.  It looks perfect for a small diorama project.

 

Everyone will buy the models and minis meeting the criteria important to them, naturally, but I could never forego purchasing a really good looking miniature, solely because of the material out of which it's made.  When I got started with the wargaming hobby, if it wasn't hexed maps with cardboard counters, metal was the only game in town.  That's largely changed now, but while I prefer other media, metal still has a fond and prominent spot in my collection.  I too have much too much invested, not only in monetary value, but in time and loving effort (particularly in GW models of every medium and genre) to ever think about wholly replacing large portions of my collection.  Not in a million years. :-) 



#45
Mud Duck

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Judging by the model on the sprue, and the Sister Superior (the one with the underslung grenade launcher) they look to be the same scale. Sister Amalia stands about a half a head taller the Sister Superior, but this looks to be from a difference in pose and a slight increase in the length of abdomen and pelvis. The width of the shoulders, length of the arms and legs, and scale of the head look to be the same, the bolter looks to be slightly smaller but that could be a visual thing.

 

If this is an preview of things to come, I'm going to say that the new plastics shouldn't be, visibly, out of place. Weight wise, well that is another story.


 
 
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#46
Slasher956

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Judging by the model on the sprue, and the Sister Superior (the one with the underslung grenade launcher) they look to be the same scale. Sister Amalia stands about a half a head taller the Sister Superior, but this looks to be from a difference in pose and a slight increase in the length of abdomen and pelvis. The width of the shoulders, length of the arms and legs, and scale of the head look to be the same, the bolter looks to be slightly smaller but that could be a visual thing.
 
If this is an preview of things to come, I'm going to say that the new plastics shouldn't be, visibly, out of place. Weight wise, well that is another story.



Nope, just nope

http://www.bolterand...ter-comparison/

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#47
tvih

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Sorry but those are some... poor... comparison pictures.



#48
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Sorry but those are some... poor... comparison pictures.

 

Plus, the Cannoness looks to be on a 25mm base, and Sister Amalia is on a 32mm base, which there is a difference in thickness; say a millimeter? And Amalia is 'blue tacked' to the base which also is add additional height. Me, I'm just eyeballing it, and it looks like the major long bones are fairly close to the same length between the models, with the extra height being made up in the torso/hips. I guess the one thing that may be the biggest difference is that the limbs are a hair thinner in plastic then the metal, which may be a bigger tell. 


 
 
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#49
Slasher956

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Sis sup Amelia still has her feet studs in the picture however is still a full head taller than the old canoness. The bases are the same height by the way..,they are standard gw ones.

Take a picture of any old metal sister along side Inq Greyfax

And yes they are poor pictures however they still show the height difference

Will I mix and match...yes just not n the same units...and from game play experience I can tell the difference on the table with canoness V and my other sisters

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#50
tvih

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Whoever made these people should be ashamed of getting the scale so all over the place... http://www.hawaiiarm...12_018_01_w.jpg


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