KiriothTV Close but a Miss on the “Real” Question

[Trevak Dal]

I kinda borrowed an idea (in writing) about a sort of "chaos Grey Knights" that were basically for-hire daemon wranglers, specially ordained from the Wordbearers called "Grey Wardens", though they have a more Exorcist bent since they allow possession and must force the daemon out. Sort of like Dark mirror Purifiers within the Word Bearers legion, these guys are sent in when some Daemons are being uppity and uncooperative.

 

They are antagonists who pursue my Possessed Sorcerer character Giselburtus as his possession is a result from the sorcerer throwing his crippled body into a soul forge from a helbrute chassis and emerging the other side reborn in flesh and sinew, warp and ceremite, two beings ceased to be and became one entity.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Trevak Dal

[Trevak Dal]

Devastators have signums and armourium cherubs, havocs aren't simply better and before they got their recent upgrade were downright worse.

I used my havocs as special weapon squads, but I kinda get gws desire to change that up. But it does put chosen in a weird role.

 

"Yo Dawg, we are the warbands veteran power armor guys, like company champions, we used to be like command squads but that changed...for reasons we can carry a 5 special weapons and everybody can have close combat weapons/power weapons if we want...but not thunderhammers."

 

We want you to make bad decisions like, buying Warp Talons or Terminators, but not bad decisions like thunderhammers on chosen squads. Because if you had 10 John Henry's come swinging out of a land raider, well that might just be too good.

 

I've stopped letting myself get upset about stuff like that and just go "well I guess GW is looking to save me money"

Edited July 9, 2019 by Trevak Dal

[Excessus]

The chosen is a unit that I still expect GW to do something fun with.

[Stray]

Why does it feel like Chaos get everything Loyalists get but with a rules bump?

 

I'm not going to discuss whether this is actually the case or not (I suspect factually sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't). But let's assume for a moment this is 100% a hard and fast rule that always applies. 

 

From a balance perspective, treating 40K as just a tabletop game, it doesn't make a lot of sense - at least not unless there is also a corresponding bump in points to go with the increase in ability.

 

But from an in-universe perspective?

 

It makes perfect sense.

 

In terms of technology, little if anything (there are exceptions) changes in the Imperium. The Mechanicum has a tendency to stifle innovation, and certain types of tech are outlawed altogether. Your average Hellwright on the other hand, has no such restriction placed upon them seemingly.

 

Above and beyond that, there is everything that comes with living in and around the influence of the warp, and the major powers. Both sides start from the same technological base, from there one has tended to largely stagnate or merely side-grade, while the other has had the carte blanch to experiment, innovate, and has literally been evolving at the whims of some truly powerful entities...

 

Makes sense to me.

 

Quite frankly I think from a logical narrative perspective, the Imperium lost long ago. Having restrictions on innovation, while the other side has none, only ends one way eventually. It's a miracle that 10,000 years of potential progress (the warp clearly does do weird things to time) hasn't already screwed them. If that kept on playing out, you'd eventually be so outgunned/outclassed that it'd have to be one hell of a Deus ex machina to prevent the Imperium from going under.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Stray

[DuskRaider]

I think the answer to this is much simpler than anyone is really considering...

 

... Chaos gets some (not much, really) options as the Imperial counterparts plus one because of one thing: soup. Imperial players have access to many more options than Chaos does when it comes to allies and soup lists. Just think about it, how many different armies can an Imperial player throw together in one cheesy pot and throw on the board? It's kind of crazy really, especially when you realize Sisters of Battle are seeing the light of day soon.

 

On the other hand, Chaos has far fewer options. There's "Vanilla" Chaos, Daemons, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and now Chaos Knights. Is that even a third of what Loyalists have access to? What better way to make up for the parity than slightly enhanced rules (or lower points cost)? Let's be honest, even those enhanced rules or lowered points aren't game breaking.

[Excessus]

On the other hand, Chaos has far fewer options. There's "Vanilla" Chaos, Daemons, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and now Chaos Knights. Is that even a third of what Loyalists have access to? What better way to make up for the parity than slightly enhanced rules (or lower points cost)? Let's be honest, even those enhanced rules or lowered points aren't game breaking.

 

Don't forget we have the glory boys also, Renegades & Heretics! :P Crappy rules but awesome theme! 

[DuskRaider]

Meh... truthfully, I don't count Renegades and Heretics. Let's be real, GW / FW has for all intents and purposes abandoned the army. The FW line is defunct and the rules are so bad that it seems like GW was actively attempting to kill them off (along with placing their rules in an Imperial book?).

 

With the Blackstone Fortress models, we may eventually see a new incarnation, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon. Which is really sad because for a time I had a sizeable Renegade Militia army.

[Excessus]

Yeah, my R&H army is on ice as well unfortunately. I was mostly joking around though...but yeah, it would be nice if we got a chaos equivalent of AM...

[DuskRaider]

An actual Traitor Guard army would be excellent, but I'm more hoping for a Dark Mechanicum army someday.

[Azekai]

Hey I still used my R&H army... in an allied detachment... last year.

Anyway, one glaring option that the Imperium has that Chaos lacks: a Primarch that somehow manages not to get shot to bits as soon as he is placed on the table.