15 replies to this topic

[NightHowler]

For full disclosure, this list idea is partly inspired by TiguriusX’s “no chaplains” list.

The idea is to have 9 small packs of Grey Hunters in front of a core of heroes who stand back and take pot shots at the enemy, and then heroic intervention anyone foolish enough to charge the Grey Hunters. The Grey Hunters will hide inside of the first floor of ruins or behind LOS blocking terrain and 5 of the 9 packs are equipped with a storm shield for a little added durability.

Unlike TiguriusX’s list, mine only has 4 lascannon shots per turn, no primaris, and no assassins. But if charged (especially if the chaplain dread has been able to kill a vehicle or monster earning the saga for Beasthunter), then I should annihilate anything I heroic intervention into.

My reasoning: the newest FAQ says that you resolve and changes to strength BEFORE calculating your weapon’s bonus, so in melee the chaplain dread’s +1 strength bonus makes the Wolf Lord and Iron Priest hit at S10 and Arjac hit at S12, and the Beastslayer gives +1 to wound with reroll 1s to hit and wound. The Armor of Russ for letting me hit first, and with 18 command point I can pop Honor the Chapter if anything survives.

Questions, comments, and criticisms requested


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [41 PL, 675pts, 1CP] ++

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts, 1CP]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought [11 PL, 192pts]: Twin lascannon, Warlord
. Melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [29 PL, 464pts] ++

+ HQ +

Arjac Rockfist [7 PL, 145pts]

Iron Priest on Bike [6 PL, 88pts]: Boltgun, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer
. Bike: Twin boltgun

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [48 PL, 860pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Trophies of Fenris [-1CP]: Trophies of Fenris - 1 Extra Relic

+ HQ +

Njal Stormcaller in Runic Terminator Armour [8 PL, 153pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 2. Tempest's Wrath, 5. Storm Caller

Wolf Lord [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Packs, Storm shield, The Wulfen Stone, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 303pts]: 2x Heavy flamer, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array

Whirlwind [6 PL, 85pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [118 PL, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[TiguriusX]

i like the whirlwind and wish i had points for 2 (or a relic whirlwind)

Great counter fire unit when facing wyverns (almost every guard list has that artillery special formation now)

[jbickb]

Just an observation but your meta clearly doesn't follow the rule of 3 does it?

[TiguriusX]

Just an observation but your meta clearly doesn't follow the rule of 3 does it?

 

Troops are exempt from the rule of three...

[NightHowler]

CON:
- Not a lot of long range shooting
- Not fast
- No good counter to Flyer spam
- No good counter to gunlines with lots of “ignores LOS”

PRO:
- Heroes are immune to shooting until the enemy shoots through a lot of Grey Hunter (5 packs with storm shields)
- Hero-dogpile heroic intervention hitting on 2s wounding on 2s and rerolling both should drag down even a Castellan in close quarters
- Lots of Command points to spend
- Njal for good psychic defense/offense (stormcaller, cloaked by the storm combo easier with +1 to cast)
- Dual storm cannon Leviathan with chooser of the slain from Njal for deep strike defense


Any weaknesses I’m missing? Tweaks to fine tune? Recommendations?

[jbickb]

Just an observation but your meta clearly doesn't follow the rule of 3 does it?

Troops are exempt from the rule of three...

Wow I never caught that and have been list building with that applying to troops. My bad. Suddenly the options...

[Shas Oh Dear]

I ran characters shielded by hard to shift units a while back. One thing I'd warn you of is that if you don't have enough threat within your untouchable models the concept becomes kinda pointless. I would say in most matches your opponent will kill your leviathan turn 1 as it's the only real target then they will just ignore you and take the objectives you can't contest due
to lack of mobility and stay there because you don't have the firepower to remove them.

[NightHowler]

I ran characters shielded by hard to shift units a while back. One thing I'd warn you of is that if you don't have enough threat within your untouchable models the concept becomes kinda pointless. I would say in most matches your opponent will kill your leviathan turn 1 as it's the only real target then they will just ignore you and take the objectives you can't contest due
to lack of mobility and stay there because you don't have the firepower to remove them.

How did your list play on the tabletop? Did the screening units last long enough to protect your characters? Do your characters do enough damage to make a difference? Did you win many games with the list?

[Shas Oh Dear]

It was very much dependant on the matchup. I was running 3 chaplain dreads and Bjorn all with lascanons and saga of the beast slayer. Against vehicle heavy lists they were very potent. My screen consisted of 3 rhinos full of infantry and the rhinos resilience plus a reluctance to focus on them made them quite good protection. The lascanons dealt with heavies really well but couldn't answer massed infantry or anything fast enough to get into my lines within a couple turns. Nor did I have a way to get at my opponents characters. You will find yourself imprisoned by your screen quite often. It hampers your mobility if the screen isn't itself mobile enough to stay ahead when you need to push forward for line of sight etc. I won a few but without worthwhile targets for the characters that my army was built around protecting, it became apparent that it wasn't worth being invulnerable if I was also ineffective.

Edited by Shas Oh Dear, 06 July 2019 - 02:04 PM.

[NightHowler]

I anticipated difficulty with hordes (why I included the leviathan), but for things hitting your lines in two turns or less Bjorn and three chaplain dreads should be able to destroy most things, right? Especially if you have at least one character with Armor of Russ to make sure you hit first. Was that not your experience?

[TiguriusX]

I anticipated difficulty with hordes (why I included the leviathan), but for things hitting your lines in two turns or less Bjorn and three chaplain dreads should be able to destroy most things, right? Especially if you have at least one character with Armor of Russ to make sure you hit first. Was that not your experience?

 

In my GT experience I only lost a single dread to melee.  That was only because a dead BA smash captain paid CP to fight after dying and took Bjorn down with him

 

The blob of badass dreadnoughts with 6" HI and armor of russ to stop a single unit is a very strong counter to the types of melee units that can actually threaten them

 

I don't use rhinos and infantry to screen b/c there is no way to keep pace on the kill and kill more board.  It is all or nothing with my version.  Hide out of LOS and let the dreads kill 1+ unit while losing 0 a turn.

 

It really throws a wrench in the most common shooty meta lists because they literally can't shoot anything. 

 

My game 1 opponent had the standard adeptus mechanicus list with cawl and a ton of kastellan robots.  After obliterating my leviathan with like 76 shots his shooting army did absolutely nothing the rest of the game because they couldn't fire at my HQs.  He eventually got frustrated and sent cawl to try and melee the iron priest but forgot the dreads nearby can HI.  

[NightHowler]

So maybe I should drop the leviathan? Depending on the terrain it’ll be anywhere from hard to impossible to hide it completely. If I drop the leviathan and the whirlwind I could take two more Chaplain Dreads, or if I just drop the Leviathan I could fit in a few more whirlwinds or another whirlwind and some terminators for added durability.

Good food for thoughts guys. Thanks.

[TiguriusX]

So maybe I should drop the leviathan? Depending on the terrain it’ll be anywhere from hard to impossible to hide it completely. If I drop the leviathan and the whirlwind I could take two more Chaplain Dreads, or if I just drop the Leviathan I could fit in a few more whirlwinds or another whirlwind and some terminators for added durability.

Good food for thoughts guys. Thanks.

 

I keep debating whether I should ditch the leviathan as well but I think it is an important part of how I run the list.

 

The leviathan is the main source of firepower in my list.  It can clear the most dangerous hordes and flyers in the meta because of keen senses stratagem.  Nailing plague bearers or eldar flyers on 2s with the Bjorn reroll is not what your opponent will be expecting.

 

It is your anti deep strike unit (chooser of the slain stratagem).

 

What I have to keep telling myself is hold the leviathan in reserve longer.  I came out aggressively too often in my GT.  If you have LOS blocking terrain keep the leviathan hidden for 2 or 3 turns while the HQ dreads plink away.

[NightHowler]

Maybe something more like this:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [41 PL, 684pts, 1CP] ++

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts, 1CP]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought [11 PL, 192pts]: Twin lascannon, Warlord
. Melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 87pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power sword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 88pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power axe
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [31 PL, 482pts] ++

+ HQ +

Arjac Rockfist [7 PL, 145pts]

Iron Priest on Bike [6 PL, 88pts]: Boltgun, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer
. Bike: Twin boltgun

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 83pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm shield

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [49 PL, 834pts, -1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Trophies of Fenris [-1CP]: Trophies of Fenris - 1 Extra Relic

+ HQ +

Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought [11 PL, 192pts]: Twin lascannon
. Melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter

Njal Stormcaller in Runic Terminator Armour [8 PL, 153pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 2. Tempest's Wrath, 5. Storm Caller

Wolf Lord [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Packs, Storm shield, The Wulfen Stone, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

Grey Hunters [4 PL, 65pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Chainsword
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Whirlwind [6 PL, 85pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

Whirlwind [6 PL, 85pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [121 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[NightHowler]

Tigurius, you posted just as I submitted the updated list. If you think the Leviathan is useful and not a liability, I’ll play test the first list and see how it runs.

Edited to say, I’ve wanted a Leviathan for a long time and this will be a good excuse to go ahead and get one.

Edited by NightHowler, 06 July 2019 - 04:53 PM.

[TiguriusX]

Tigurius, you posted just as I submitted the updated list. If you think the Leviathan is useful and not a liability, I’ll play test the first list and see how it runs.

Edited to say, I’ve wanted a Leviathan for a long time and this will be a good excuse to go ahead and get one.

 

The space wolf leviathan is one of the most deadly in the game because of keen senses

 

The eldar match in my GT took my opponent completely by surprise.  We explained all our tricks pre game but I don't think he understood how keen senses would make the leviathan a beast.  I erased his most of his hornets despite a -2 modifier using keen senses leviathan.  He was relying on the hornets to blow away all my infantry on his next turn (T6 W8 fast attack with 6 S6 shots 3 shots have AP3 D2)

 

*edit

The leviathan is basically a nice big delete button.  And it draws attention.  People focus on it or avoid it.

Good synergy with my bjorn and friends fire base because it can lure people towards me for potential bjorn and friends melee targets

Edited by TiguriusX, 06 July 2019 - 05:23 PM.