Imperial Knight paint scheme preferences

[Stray]

I could see a freeblade knight being granted the right to take on a chapter's colours. But yeah not for me.

 

How about knight houses during the heresy? Did they adopt forge world / Titan legion colors?

 

House Malinax seems to have adopted the colors of Xana II for example.

 

Sorta, yeah.

 

In the case of House Malinax, they were an ex-Knight Household based around a specific bloodline (they may have had a different name also, it isn't clear, but it seems they had mostly died out). Xana II essentially resurrected the House, and the new Malinax Knights were sworn to their service.

 

The scorpion logo you see on Xana II forces is actually the original Malinax logo. The scorpion device was altered slightly by adding the triple tail (to represent it being 'transmuted by the omni-thingy'), and it seems it was adopted across all Xana forces presumably as a sign of the bond between Xana and Malinax.

 

The 'colour', is part Xanite tradition, and possibly religious rite? It's bone coloured because Xana is inhabited by several large 'megafauna', who are hunted and their skeletons used to 'paint' the Xanite war machines.

 

It seems then, as though both informed the heraldry of the other?

 

Taranis Knight's on the other hand were, pre-heresy, actually blue. But clearly adopted the Red of Mars sometime around or post that period after nearly being entirely wiped out.

 

I certainly can't think of any in fluff who take Astartes chapter, or titan legion colours though.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Stray

[Bryan Blaire]

Looking at it from a historical heraldry standpoint, you would only ever fully take on the heraldry of another house if you actually became part of that house - knights and landed nobility didn’t regularly take up the heraldry of those they fought alongside for decades, they had their own. Like C_F_H said, maybe you’d have a knight that would take up some small token heraldry of a favored force somewhere amongst their own, but to completely remove your heraldry and use theirs would akin to disavowing your family and accepting a new one as your identity.

 

Maybe a Freeblade would do that, but I really can’t see a member of a Knight household wholly taking up the heraldry of a Titan Legio or Space Marine Chapter/Legion, personally.

 

Again, your models, your choices.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I could see a freeblade knight being granted the right to take on a chapter's colours. But yeah not for me.

 

How about knight houses during the heresy? Did they adopt forge world / Titan legion colors?

 

House Malinax seems to have adopted the colors of Xana II for example.

I could have sworn it was in a codex or somewhere that it specifically said that free blades, individual household knights or even whole house holds have encorporated insignia and heraldric colors from other factions they have deep ties too. Such as millenia(plural) long alliances that have seen them fight side by side hundreda of times in desperate circumstances.

 

Its not really that differebt from how half the holds described in codex are flagrantly mechanicum in heraldry because of deep ties to thwie forgeworld, and ive seen several times that folks do all tgeir knights up in the heraldry of the legio titanicus they are tied to.

 

Personally, i wouldnt do it with "my" knights. But thats just me. Andi would preffer it done more as a "nod" or "encorporation" rather than fully engulfing their heraldry.

There is a difference between encorporated and full heraldric conversion. A knee plate given over to pay respect . Some iconic presence on banners. Ect.

 

The pride a Astartes has in his colors is more then the effect of a war engine on the battle field. They dont gift their colors to things the respect . This is a slippery slope . Would any here think a Callidus clade assassin, who racked up a large list of commander kills would be given the "honor" of sporting Space Wolf colors? Some group of Arbites who have an impressive arrest streak, inducted into Raven guard? Imperial guard conscips who die well, into the Mentor legion? No matter how good the paint job, or fluff acrobatics are, the answer must be no. No amount of fluff heresy can square this triangle.

 

Knights are more pridefull of their colors then perhaps any other group. They are mind manipulated to feel it in their bone to a greater degree then astartes, sororitas.

 

There is a HH story that has a Iron Warriors Tech Marine hijack a Titan. If it were the case that the Knights could be piloted by a Astartes then it would be all good. No one seems to be going there.

 

Knights predate the Astartes by a long while. Their traditions, machine spirits are older. They might predate Titans. They are not the new hotness. If anything the Astartes should be sporting Knight house heraldry.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[Son of Sacrifice]

Didn't some legions induct cybernetic units that performed particularly well during the Heresy? Not just paint an armour panel, but give them an honorary place in the legion?

[Brother Tyler]

That was the Desert Lions Chapter with the Legio Cybernetica. The original lore was 1st edition and described events during and after Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan V).

 

Whether or not that was during the Horus Heresy or was later is unknown as the dates aren't given. The current body of Horus Heresy lore describes a Desert Lions Chapter as part of the Ultramarines Legion. Aside from the 1st edition article I mentioned, there is no official mention of a Desert Lions Chapter that I know of. It's possible that the Desert Lions in the article may be a 2nd Founding Chapter that no longer exists (the Apocrypha of Davio allows for such), or Operation Carthage may have taken place during the Horus Heresy or prior to the 2nd Founding.

 

Regardless, the article is about the Legio Cybernetica, not the Imperial Knights, so whether or not it might be used to justify anything is of questionable merit. The Legio Cybernetica isn't quite as mindful of their colors as the Imperial Knights (or Adeptus Astartes), so it's an apples and oranges argument.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I'm pretty sure it was the Word Bearers that I'm referencing. It's relevant because it shows precedent for Astartes bestowing their colours on other forces.

 

And furthermore I can't imagine a freeblade knight being that mindful of their colors.

[Stray]

Codex Chaos Knights provides a little potentially useful information on this subject.

 

Apparently Chaos Knights are sometimes objects of reverence or even worship, to both cultists and Heretic Astartes. Bands will travel with them, following them into battle. (In this instance more of an argument should perhaps be made for Astartes taking on Knight Heraldry than the other way around.)

 

Perhaps more interestingly is the description of a named Knight who seems to be heavily involved with (and possibly effectively part of) the Word Bearers Legion. In fact, the fluff essentially states that pilots for this Knight are specifically drawn directly from the Word Bearers. There is a full colour image of said Knight who seems to have somewhat adopted the colours of the Legion Pre-Heresy. It also uses a skull device which is very obviously influenced by that used by the pre heresy Word Bearers Legion...

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Everything ive posted is thrown out the window when talking about traitor Questoris.  A fallen knight may have stronger attachment to its heraldry or none.  

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's not fully 'canon' but, for the sake of argument, there is one Knight in Templar colours from a copy of Warhammer Visions: https://m.imgur.com/a/h2JayLa

[Brother Tyler]

It's not fully 'canon' but, for the sake of argument, there is one Knight in Templar colours from a copy of Warhammer Visions: https://m.imgur.com/a/h2JayLa

Was that an official (i.e., 'Eavy Metal/studio) miniature? Or was it a hobbyist's miniature?

[Bryan Blaire]

I thought that Visions was mostly the hobbyist display portion while the magazine was split up - that’s where they had the Golden Demon stuff, etc.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

It's not fully 'canon' but, for the sake of argument, there is one Knight in Templar colours from a copy of Warhammer Visions: https://m.imgur.com/a/h2JayLa

Was that an official (i.e., 'Eavy Metal/studio) miniature? Or was it a hobbyist's miniature?

I don't know any more than what you see on that pic.

[Toxichobbit]

You can get away with using "Chapter" colours in one specific instance, while still mainting the official canon. House Hawkshroud incorporate allies iconography into their personal heraldry. The bottom of their honour banners are reserved for ally's insignia. They also seem to ally with Imperial Fists a lot and as both factions are bright yellow, you've basically got an official Knight in "Chapter colours", or as close as you can get without changing the lore. They still have their own house insignia and personal heraldry on their knight suits though, so it wouldn't be a direct facsimilie of the Fists' colours.

 

I'd put money on the development of House Hawkshroud's background and scheme coming from a studio Fists player who painted their Knights to match their Marines.

 

The Word Bearers did indeed induct Cybernetica constructs into their Chapter - it was in The First Heretic (I think). The Thousand Sons also had inducted Cybernetica constructs.

[MegaVolt87]

I remember seeing some lore where the IW's invaded a knight world, knights went out to meet IW's, gone for days. Came back in IW colors because they had the Chaos Lords lieutenants/ chosen as the new pilots. So in that case, yes they would 100% likely be in Legion colors + insignia. IW's also painted up castelan robots in Legion colors like WB's did as well I believe. Also how common is it for knights to annex themselves to titan legions and take on their colors/ traditions? I can't seem to find colour schemes for House Caesarean or Kepsydra, so was thinking of doing knights in Legio Krytos colors, though would rather the knight houses mentioned as allies for my IW's (that was historical for 30k I believe). 

[Lord_Ikka]

Personally, I don't like seeing Knights in full SM Chapter colors. Chaos Legion colors, yeah, that makes sense to me- the Legions are the largest and best source of support for traitor Knights so having traitor Knights switch over their colors to the Legion they follow seems logical. I can see a single Freeblade becoming oathed to a SM Chapter, but not a whole Knight House/lance of Knights. As far as Mechanicus-aligned Houses, I think having the colors of the Forge World are appropriate (my own personal Knight House is bonded to their Forge World, so they are clad in the colors of that world). So for me- SM no, Chaos/Mechanicus yes.

 

All that being said, I don't really care if I play someone with Knights painted as Blood Angels, Cadian 8th, or even Hello Kitty- it is not my place to critique another person's decisions on what to do with their purchases, as long as it falls within rules. I've played against great painted armies, horrible to me themes (can't stand anime-themed T'au even though I love anime), and the ever-present grey hordes, and as long as the player is fun and a good opponent I have no real issue how what they put on the table looks.

[Paradigm]

I'm in the process of finishing up my House Orhlacc knights, and was trying to figure out if I should go with their heresy scheme or alter it to align with 40k Knight Heraldry. While we don't have any exact examples that I can think of, it seems that many knight houses discovered during the Heresy, had what looks similar to the descriptions of some of the 40k-era houses from prior to their incorporation into the imperium.

I have one Orhlacc Knight in Heresy-era iconography done, and can easily justify it as a relic. However, as I begin placing decals, I can't help but wonder if I should go with more modern iconography going forward?

I'm definitely in a bit of a purist camp with regard to my own miniatures. What is the consensus on this, or is there one? Did knight houses universally (or nearly so) update their heraldry to the same standard post heresy? Looking at houses like Terryn and others who have pre-contact heraldry which looks remarkably similar to houses like Orhlacc in HH: Book 4.

[MegaVolt87]

I'm in the process of finishing up my House Orhlacc knights, and was trying to figure out if I should go with their heresy scheme or alter it to align with 40k Knight Heraldry. While we don't have any exact examples that I can think of, it seems that many knight houses discovered during the Heresy, had what looks similar to the descriptions of some of the 40k-era houses from prior to their incorporation into the imperium.

 

I have one Orhlacc Knight in Heresy-era iconography done, and can easily justify it as a relic. However, as I begin placing decals, I can't help but wonder if I should go with more modern iconography going forward?

 

I'm definitely in a bit of a purist camp with regard to my own miniatures. What is the consensus on this, or is there one? Did knight houses universally (or nearly so) update their heraldry to the same standard post heresy? Looking at houses like Terryn and others who have pre-contact heraldry which looks remarkably similar to houses like Orhlacc in HH: Book 4.

 

No school like the old school man. Go the 30k colours + insignia. Lore wise people get more clout in modern 40k rocking the old stuff. 

[Paradigm]

Don't disagree about the clout. I want to have a modern Knight house though and want to do my best to meet whatever standard seems to be the case at this point in the game's history. They'd be dealing with a lot of interesting things being in Imperium Nihilus but already having managed to hold out through Old Night and the Heresy and two homeworlds that want to eat them.

Talking with some folks on Facebook, it seems likely that all of them made the switch eventually to the standard livery style. Based in part on Cadmus as a precedent. Being a mechanicum house after reunification, they went back to their OG colors and iconography once they gained freedom from Gryphonne IV. However they incorporated the Aquila instead of going to their pre-contact scheme.

I think it's an interesting thought project considering the wealth of houses we know of from the Horus Heresy and Adeptus Titanicus books.

Edit:

Here is a very rough mockup of what I expect an updated Orhlacc Emblem might look like. Some of the other houses would be more interesting to update though.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Fortnight

[Exilyth]

There are multiple tiers to knight paint schemes on the tt:

1. unpainted
2. painted as some other faction
3. primed
4. painted in base color
5. painted as one of the houses (or freeblades) given in the lore
6. painted as a custom house (or freeblade)
7. any of 5 or 6 but with freehand iconography/heraldry

People are free to do whatever they want with their models, but imho as a LoW and often centerpiece of an army, not making a knight stand out at least a bit would be a waste. Also all of thoose flat surfaces are just waiting for some freehands painting.

 

Running as one of the houses from the lore would be the strictest paint scheme, followed closely by making up your own house. It's perfectly fine for knights to look similar in an all knights list due to low model count. Being a different faction, I would not feel comfortable painting knights in the same colors as some other faction. What's the use if a knight looks like some oversized space marine dissappearing into a <chapter>-colored mass of models?

 

Got to agree on one point made earlier in the thread though: the better the execution, the easier it is to sell an idea.

 

It's not fully 'canon' but, for the sake of argument, there is one Knight in Templar colours from a copy of Warhammer Visions: https://m.imgur.com/a/h2JayLa

Canon or not - it is interesting to note that said knight is still wearing their own heraldry on the legs.