Codex: Space Marines 2.0 speculation & discussion

[The Unseen]

Chaplains rerolling saves of 1 would be cool, but probably broken with primaris units in cover.

I'd take a 5+++ vs psychic mortal wounds, and maybe a bonus to charge rolls?

[Panzer]

Angels of Death including Bolter Discipline would make sense but I doubt it simply because CSM didn't get such a treatment either.

[Captain Idaho]

Chaplains rerolling saves of 1 would be cool, but probably broken with primaris units in cover.

I'd take a 5+++ vs psychic mortal wounds, and maybe a bonus to charge rolls?

I actually think it would help the army plenty but remember that modifiers are still a thing ;)

 

The only problem with that though us every one would just hug the Chaplain. 40K is too much of an aura bubble game as it is.

[Panzer]

I agree on that. It's great that characters can do more than they did in 7th but being forced into a bubble meta as far as it goes for Marine lists is pretty annoying and restricting. ^^

[TrawlingCleaner]

I think reworking Chaplains to be similar to Dark Apostles would be really cool. Have a list of prayers that do different things that you can pick from like Psycic powers which would make him much more flexible imo.

[Subtleknife]

Wouldnt mind if chaplain gave the ability to re roll one or both DICE on a charge roll. Furthermore, if a unit that has charged finished within 6 inches of a friendly chaplain they get +1 attack for that turn only.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think TrawlingCleaner suggestion of chaplains working like dark apostles and gaining multiple prayers to choose from makes the most sense (I'd give Black Templars unique prayers to make up for no psychic powers)

[TrawlingCleaner]

Currently there are:

 

Unit within 6" get -1 to hit when targetted by ranged.

Re-roll all failed hit rolls in the fight phase within 6" (They know this as default)

6" 5+ invuln save

Units use 2D6 on Morale and pick the highest within 6 of Priest 

Add 3 attacks and -4AP to the dark apostle

+1 to wound rolls made by melee weapons to one unit within 6"

+1 to hit rolls to unit's ranged weapons

 

There are also God specific ones but I can't find them atm. These powers make him more flexible than just a combat reroll and I think that's what Chaplains and Space Marines need. While I wouldn't want all of these to be copied but a lot of these have utility that Space marines currently don't have.

[CaptainMarsh]

I've been thinking about Angels of Death, Initially I believed AoD would just be ATSKNF and Bolter Discipline combined, but I'm not so sure anymore. Bolter Discipline is a large rule with multiple caveats written into it. Not only that, but since it impacts a very specific subset of weapons, I believe we'll see Bolter Discipline as a rule in the back of the book next to Defenders of Humanity. 

[Ishagu]

Do Primaris have enough for their own codex? I count 28 (amended from 27) unique units at the moment. I'm also hoping that they add additional characters for each of the chapters, and perhaps an extra unit or two in a few slots. The following list includes all the exiting units as well as those previewed and hinted at:

 

HQ:

-Primaris Captain

-Phobos Captain

-Gravis Captain

-Pimaris Librarian

-Phobos Librarian

-Lieutenant

-Phobos Lieutenant

-New Reiver Lieutenant?

-Primaris Chaplain

-Primaris Calgar

-Iron Hands Iron Father

 

Troops:

-Intercessors

-Infiltrators

 

Elites:

-Reivers

-Aggressors

-Primaris Ancient

-Primaris Apothecary

-Redemptor Dreadnought

-New Light Dreadnought

-Victrix Honour Guard

 

Fast Attack:

-Inceptors

-Suppressor Squad

 

Heave Support:

-Eliminators

-Hellblasters

-Repulsor Executioner

 

Dedicared Transport:

-Repulsor

-New light hover tank

 

Lord of War:

-Roboute Guilliman

 

 

I'm hoping that if they do split the books they also updated the classic Astartes with a new codex. There are far too many great units in the classic range that I want to run indefinitely. If the books are separated they should still be allowed to function together by virtue of keywords. I would prefer for them to streamline the classic range, combining a bunch of datasheets.

 

Going back to the new Angels of Death rule, I'm tempering my expectation but I think it's an opportunity for some nice additional bonuses:

 

Angels of Death:

Incorporates Bolter Drill, ATSKNF, grants additional attack in CC against units with T3 or below, -1Ld for non Angels of Death units within 6"

 

 

I think the codex is very close. The updated Intercessor datasheet shows substantial changes. We've also seen hints that a heavy Bolt Pistol will be a potential upgrade for characters?

I'm hoping that they surprise us with a CC unit. We already know that Eliminators are getting additional weapon options for dealing with high toughness, multi-wound units. We also don't know if additional options will become available for Suppressors, but from the fuzzy image we saw at the recent preview CC infiltrators might be a thing as well.

 

The Chaplain should get updated rules, something like the prayers that the Dark Apostle has. Maybe a set of Litanies that bolster nearby units in different ways.

 

New stratagems and psychic powers are at the top of my list of what is needed for the next codex. It's very important that each chapter receives a set of stratagems that boost the utility of their units in unique ways, themed around the chapters themselves.

 

Edit: Added extra unit

Edited July 17, 2019 by Ishagu

[Sete]

@Black_Star: Or you know... Vows...

Edited July 17, 2019 by Sete

[MARK0SIAN]

For Chaplains, I’d like to see a rule that makes it easier for them to stay in range of the unit they’re meant to be buffing in melee. Having to charge two separate units is a bit unreliable.

 

I’d like the chaplain to have some bonus to his charge to make it easier for him to stay with a squad rather than have a case of them making the charge and him being left behind unable to support them. Maybe a version of heroic intervention that allows him to move to support units that successfully charged or even just straight up allows him to join any combat within X inches without having to roll.

[Lemondish]

Currently there are:

 

Unit within 6" get -1 to hit when targetted by ranged.

Re-roll all failed hit rolls in the fight phase within 6" (They know this as default)

6" 5+ invuln save

Units use 2D6 on Morale and pick the highest within 6 of Priest

Add 3 attacks and -4AP to the dark apostle

+1 to wound rolls made by melee weapons to one unit within 6"

+1 to hit rolls to unit's ranged weapons

 

There are also God specific ones but I can't find them atm. These powers make him more flexible than just a combat reroll and I think that's what Chaplains and Space Marines need. While I wouldn't want all of these to be copied but a lot of these have utility that Space marines currently don't have.

Agreed 100%

[justicarius6]

My guess is it'll be all primaris based. Note there are no unique primaris characters (not counting nu-Calgar) yet so it can be easily done.

 

One book of primaris with a bunch of strats, a sprinkling of new rules and maybe some new chapter characters. Then all the marine books can use them in conjunction with the original codex.

 

And then slowly, ever so slowly as GW stops updating rules for old marines they fade away....

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I get the Chaplain being a bubble, because it could be based on the game effect of oratory, I just wish the officer's affects upon other units was based upon something like Vox, so it could affect any unit I nominate on the board. (It could be that a Lt can boost X units I nominate, and the Captain X+1 or 2.)

 

Currently I find it mad that the Guard's orders makes them more flexible than the Space Marines

[Sete]

@Ishagu: Reiver lieutenant was teased aswell right?

That would be 28 units, and im sure a couple more will be revealed. I refuse to believe that IH dude will drop solo for chapter HQ.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Sete

[Ishagu]

@Ishagu: Reiver lieutenant was teased aswell right?

That would be 28 units, and im sure a couple more will be revealed. I refuse to believe that IH dude will drop solo for chapter HQ.

Good point. I'll add him to the list now.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 I'd imagine a reiver lieuteant to be the same data sheet as the phobos lieutenant, with the data sheet probably updated

[Triszin]

I'd imagine a reiver lieuteant to be the same data sheet as the phobos lieutenant, with the data sheet probably updated

Except, he'd have terror troop and shock grenades. And hopefully different melee weapon options id think

[Blindhamster]

Ends up being quite different in the end!

[Triszin]

Ends up being quite different in the end!

Not so much, but I see the reivers captain as a debugger, while the Phobos Capt is a allied buffer

[Red_Shift]

I don't think we've seen any first company primaris yet. Whether that will be a separate wave or whether we get kits soon will be interesting to see. There certainly seems to be a lot of speculation about a veteran intercessors kit.

[Dracos]

I could be wrong but pretty sure Gravis army is Primaris Terminator equivalent. Happy to be wrong about that mind you. I would be all in on a Centurion size Primaris. I’d rather they gave Aggressors +1A for two melee weapons and Intercessors a sword and board option but I wouldn’t turn down some tank sized Primaris either :)

[Panzer]

It's not really the equivalent. It's similarly durable on the board and gives off a similar presence (bulky Marine infantry), but they aren't Veterans or anything and can't deep strike by default like Terminators can do.

[SickSix]

I think expecting anything beyond addition of new datasheets for the units that have been and will be released soon is setting yourself up for disappointment.