How to kill Primaris with Firstborn

[SickSix]

Some controversial theory crafting here. Say there is a schism (even if very small) of old versus new marines*.

 

How would you fight an all Primaris army with Firstborn Marines? (OG Marines were referred to as Firstborn in A D-B's new book and I like the sound of it)

 

There are tons of options for Firstborn but also a lot of their unit selections have been suboptimal for a long time.

 

I imagine Devastators backed by Captains and or LTs would be a decent choice. Could a Land Raider be decent since Primaris don't have a lot of high strength AT yet? (Or do they? I am not familiar with their new units rules)

 

So what kind of army would to take to kill your heretical big brothers?

 

*or your are a salty Marine player with thousands of points of Firstborn, and just getting back into playing are probably going to have to play against some Primaris armies and want to crush them under your boot.

[Dracos]

I “like” the phrase Firstborn :)

[MARK0SIAN]

Primaris are still quite an infantry focussed army. Lots of infantry killing weapons like assault cannons, accelerator cannons, autocannons, plasma etc and they’re toast :)

[Panzer]

Spamming Plasma. Done.

[MARK0SIAN]

Or, alternately, trick them into getting into a building/area/planet that is about to be destroyed. Then make it so their only route to safety is via a landraider, stormraven or rhino. They’ll die because apparently they can’t open the doors for those things.

[SickSix]

Ha. So maybe my DA successor force would be naturally suited as it's loaded with plasma. And 3 Vindicators couldn't hurt either.

 

My Silver Skulls have lots of options but not a whole lot of plasma specifically. Are TFCs any good against Primaris? I have two or three I have yet to put together.

[Panzer]

You can use basically anything against Primaris you'd use against other Marines except that multi-damage weapons are twice as good.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I love TFC but it's not especially great against Primaris. They don't have enough assault punch that you get good use out of Tremor Shells, and that D1 means you're not popping more than a couple of models per shot.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah Plasma is great. Predator autocannons and Whirlwinds are okay but the latter are a little lacklustre with just the single weapons platform. The range of both helps a bunch mind. At ranges over about 20" those Primaris struggle to put damage onto enemies.

 

Special mention goes to Centurions. They have great ranged potential and even 2 wound Primaris won't want to be hit with even a minimum sized squad of 3 with Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters. 54 shots with rerolls (Captains and Lieutenants etc) is nothing to be sniffed at.

 

That's changing somewhat with the Exterminator and the Repulsor is already a nasty proposition though a tad points heavy.

 

If you've got or built for range advantage then prioritise those Repulsors.

 

Although a basic Primaris is superior to a basic Tactical Marine in assault, they generally don't want to be there except for mopping up duty. A Captain with multi damage weapons is going to make a mess out of them as will Vanguard Veterans.

 

Lastly, well there is the Leviathan...

Edited July 17, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

As a primaris player I'd say your biggest concerns are repulsors and hellblasters. But imo the classic or firstborn units are in a better place rule wise (repulsors are the only primaris unit that show in top tens at big tournaments.

 

Best units against us from the old range are scouts, vanguard vets, centurions, and smash captains.

[Captain Idaho]

Lascannons too ;) they wound Repulsors just as easily as Rhinos.

[undivided_apostle]

I play csm but actual csm not cultists so my strategy can be used by thin bloods.

 

Primaris are very susceptible to armor. Their anti armor choices are price prohibitive or prone to self immolation...

 

So I flood the table with armor preferably ones that cause more than 1 damage per attack. I also really like rhinos, bolt rifles are lethal against power armor.

 

Characters like chaplains are really good against primaris.

[Sky Potato]

Good batrep on YouTube I watched today on the wintersSEO channel - https://youtu.be/MWOG5p2iv5U

 

3000 points of firstborn vs Primaris from a year ago.

[War Angel]

Yeah but that video has the Primaris player acting like a noob.

[USNCenturion]

I was gonna come on here and recommend gun lining with Leman Russ Punishers and Executioner with their extra 6” range, and to play keep away with your longer ranged baseline infantry.

 

Then I realized you weren’t talking about the Vostroyan Firstborn.

 

So, um, yeah. Just shoot them I suppose. Otherwise listen to these other skilled marine chaps!

[Jacques Corbin]

Run an Ironclad Dreadnought at a squad of Hellblasters who are unsupervised by a captain. They will overcharge, a few will die, and then he will get in, and the rest will die.

[Gederas]

Run an Ironclad Dreadnought at a squad of Hellblasters who are unsupervised by a captain. They will overcharge, a few will die, and then he will get in, and the rest will die.

Alternatively, if you're not against Forge World: A Leviathan Dreadnought

 

Specifically: A Leviathan Dreadnought with dual Storm Cannon Arrays. How does TWENTY S7 AP-2 D2 shots on a Toughness 8 14 Wound 2+/4++ platform sound?

Edited July 22, 2019 by Gederas

[templargdt]

Anything D2.  So naturally Plasma comes to mind.  Tactical Squads of Plasma, Combiplasma, maybe Plasma Cannon, 10 SMs, with a Captain and Lieutenant in support.  Devastators with Plasma Cannons.  

[Captain Idaho]

 

Run an Ironclad Dreadnought at a squad of Hellblasters who are unsupervised by a captain. They will overcharge, a few will die, and then he will get in, and the rest will die.

 

Alternatively, if you're not against Forge World: A Leviathan Dreadnought

 

Specifically: A Leviathan Dreadnought with dual Storm Cannon Arrays. How does TWENTY S7 AP-2 D2 shots on a Toughness 8 14 Wound 2+/4++ platform sound?

Same goes for the Grav Flux Bombards. 5 strong squads suffer 2D3 S9 shots that do D2 to infantry, per weapon system.

[ShinyRhino]

You have to be careful with the points-expensive Leviathans with dual guns. All it takes is a unit getting near it and charging to tie him up for the rest of the game. He's not punching his way out of a Primaris squad with his 4 attacks and no AP.

Just keep it in mind and plan accordingly. Unless you play on Planet Bowling Ball,c then have at it.

[Captain Idaho]

As an Ultramarines player that doesn't concern me!

 

But yes it is definitely something folk should consider though it easily managed.

[SickSix]

Well my plasma heavy army is actually a DA descendant so I don't get UM tricks.

 

But I appreciate all the feedback given in this thread and that it never got unpleasant.

[Captain Idaho]

Well in that case you've got options like Strategums which will assist. Plenty of plasma too.

[Gederas]

Well my plasma heavy army is actually a DA descendant so I don't get UM tricks.

 

But I appreciate all the feedback given in this thread and that it never got unpleasant.

As an Ultramarines player that doesn't concern me!

 

But yes it is definitely something folk should consider though it easily managed.

Regarding the Leviathan being charged: If you're playing Dark Angels, if they charge it, just use the stratagem Intractible, have it walk out of combat and nuke them at no negative to hit.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah plasma and auto cannons and anything else doing 2 or more damage will work wonders.