Anyone tried the new AdMech tanks yet?

[Prot]

Well Charlo when I first wrote up my mini-batrep it was with a feeling of... defeat. But revisiting the match, as well as the list(s), I feel more sour about it now than anything.

 

You're right there's nothing technically -wrong- with the new tanks/vehicles, but there's way too much overlap with them. There's huge holes in the AdMech tool box, and another box hidden in your deployment zone doesn't really change how the army works at all. If anything, it's the indirect fire, but again these very units are fighting for points in the (nearly) identical role of other tanks/walkers.

 

I've revisited the list. I just can't really fill the holes without just bringing some Knights to help it out.  What I found in my test games is the transport isn't enough to actually gain real board control and it's always a battle of 'Do I invest in movement, at the cost of true, elite firepower?'

[Gaz1858]

I just completed an ITC game against Astra Militarum. He had a Mech heavy list with 7 Leman Russ tanks and a Chimera backed up by about 80 Conscripts and characters.

 

My list was

 

Mixed Bat

Mars Manipulus

Lucius TPE with the Solar Flare (idea with him is to go grab an Objective for a turn or 2)

3 x 5 Graia Rangers

 

Stygies Bat

Daedalosus 

TPE

3 x 5 Rangers

2 x 5 Priests

3 x Duneriders

 

Mars Spear

Cawl

10 Corpuscarii

2 x 3 Dakka Bots

2 x Skorpius with  Belleros

 

This game was a very tight one. The final score is 27 - 30 to him. And given that my army struggles massively with horde mech I was pretty happy. I also made some mistakes in deployment and turn 1 which didnt help.

 

I deployed Daedalosus AWAY from the bots etc for some reason. First game using him, wont be doing that again! I forgot his ability was 6" range so he did nothing for the whole game.

 

The Skorpius were fine, they just didnt do too much against the tanks needing 5s to wound. They did however kill the unit I couldnt see which was in a ruin holding an objective. Previously there would have been nothing I could do about that unit so they did their job.

 

Here is the final score sheet using the ITC Battles App. Which is awesome by the way!!

 

https://itcbattles.app/v/BQy_lq8_

[Charlo]

That's it Prot, and if you do forego that movement then the lost loses all bite it had. It's a balancing act with tipped scales... I don't think there is anything wrong with taking knights and still calling it "pure". Though if anything I'd like the next 'dex to keep the knights in there but make them seperate from the codex knight units - gaining Forge World key word instead of household maybe and making them a pure part of the list... As opposed to just hangers on that fit the theme. Or at least not break any mono-faction rules.

[Prot]

Well the codex has so many Knight options I think it would be silly to think of Knights as not Admech... particularly if you take an Mechanicus house. That's just me anyway.

 

@Gaz, I like that list, but it is even less protective against CC than my own. 

 

In my last game I was in serious trouble against GSC. How do you think yours would perform against GSC?

[Gaz1858]

Well the troops and duneriders would be my screening units and the corpuscarii are there to fire at a deepstriking unit plus charge in to clear a unit where neccesary with the Fulgurites.

 

If i can make the GSC player take out some rangers or duneriders im free to hit back. It all comes down to wrapping and i think i have enough bases to do that.

 

I have a game against Eldar tonight so will post up the results from that later

Edited September 25, 2019 by Gaz1858

[Prot]

Well my list was two Mars Bats, and I was engaged on my back line by turn 3 I had no where to move. 

 

Multiple waves of units of Acolytes can be really pressing. Eventually you realize you cannot win any of these close combat situations (it would be unreasonable to make a CC list afterall) but you can only back up once or twice and you're done.

 

This is why I'm seriously thinking of going back to including Knights.

 

By the time 'wave 2' came in from the GSC, I had no chaff, and bikers with explosives had removed my punchy bots. At this point I have no board control and no real threat to mortars.

 

At least with the Knights I'll have a foot print and push back a bit. I've always been a little more 'pro-Warglaive' than most people here. I may go back to them as well.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I think the Admech codex has been balanced around including a knight. Without one the army is very, very lackluster.

[Prot]

I think the Admech codex has been balanced around including a knight. Without one the army is very, very lackluster.

 

I think you're right. I've tried doing everything I can around the codex (not allies) to abstain from Knights in competitive play. 

 

Overall I don't think it can be done. There's just too many devastating match ups. (GSC is clearly one of the worst). 

 

In order to (for example) win a tournament, or finish very high up, you basically need to thread a needle. You have to be lucky enough to completely avoid those matchups that will just melt you, or counter the fairly predictable nature of AdMech.

 

At this point I've cooled off on the new tanks replacing the roll of other things and gone back to what works. I'm a little bored of the Plasma/Grav Kataphron detachment. It does work, but it's a little one dimensional for me. 

 

I'm just going back to adding Knights. Probably just one with a few Armigers for the 3 CP and house rules.

[Black Knight]

Prot! Stop changing your Avatar I cannot tell its you that is talking, you Alpha Legion you!

 

Would you use a Knight as a Knight in the Admec codex or as part of Knight Knight Codex?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Black_Knight

[Prot]

Prot! Stop changing your Avatar I cannot tell its you that is talking, you Alpha Legion you!

 

Would you use a Knight as a Knight in the Admec codex or as part of Knight Knight Codex?

 

Hehe... I'm sorry. I usually change it to the army I am using in my game that day....

 

So Knight wise, I've just been using my Taranis but as described in the Knights Codex. 

 

For fun I just basically run the one with the Lightning dual mode cannon and two Armigers or a Helverin and an Armiger. If I want to be more competitive, I would do something a little different, probably in the way of a Crusader, but I still like Armigers especially for Admech.

 

I still think there should be more synergy there.

[Black Knight]

I would prefer in the long run to have Knights separate to Admech but I definitely agree our army does come up short right now as a mono-faction(The new buzz word).

 

I did just get a good deal on the extra sprue from the new Preceptor box, so I will be making up one with one of the two unmade Knights I still have to make.

[Prot]

I just look at the lack of responses on this topic and it kind of is a reality check for me. I really thought that all this time people moaning for a transport, and/or new units would have generated a lot more conversation. 

 

I wonder what GW sales are like on the box? Perhaps a few nuts like myself buy 2-3 of them but they sit a lot on the shelves. Even the 'regular' online retailers around here do not have the tanks for sale most often. They don't sell that well. 

 

Perhaps it's the state of Admech overall. Largely seen as a one trick pony, perhaps not competitive enough?

[MajorNese]

I just look at the lack of responses on this topic and it kind of is a reality check for me. I really thought that all this time people moaning for a transport, and/or new units would have generated a lot more conversation. 

[...]

Perhaps it's the state of Admech overall. Largely seen as a one trick pony, perhaps not competitive enough?

Well, pure AdMech may have started strong in 7th ed, but in 8th they are just lacklustre except for 3 usable combos (Cawl+bots, Stygies dragoons, servitor detachment). And everyone has played them again and again and again. Most stuff outside of the combos turns worse with every other released codex, skitarii for example suffer massively from Astartes gaining AP on every anti chaff weapon, and when I consider the stuff I can now do with my IH and RG, I would dread facing either of those armies with AdMech. The transport is nice, but except for a few niche lists that have to hope for favorable matchups to work, it doesn't change the fact that our army is currently limited to casual games.

 

There is nothing new to try, there are no hidden tricks, no surprising synergies worth exploring, and only single new units every half year. Our model (and fluff) section is too limited to keep building and trying out stuff and keeping the forge going. So it's not surprising that this forum is not very active right now, especially considering everyone's favorite army has a release dragged out over (probably 6) months, with massive rules overhaul/expansion and additional models.

 

Astartes are the current example of how to make an outdated codex playable again, and until something similar happens for AdMech, I'm mostly down to collecting stuff. And since I already have everything painted several times except for the new tanks and priest, it rather boils down to my AdMech primaris, Raptors primaris and occasionally knights. The only way I see to expand AdMech would be Astramiliwhatnow conversions, to gain more freedom in vehicles, but the rules bloat would be an issue.

[Black Knight]

It is definitely not the spring chicken it used to be, it is very rare that I see a battle report on Youtube anymore. The only person I see posting Admech is usually Winters SEO. MiniWargaming used to post Admech and Deathwatch and they were fluffy lists too but the main creater who did them has now been promoted so Josh very very rarely does videos anymore.

 

Then again I never thought a transport would make us competitive, too many holes in our roster. You will see people use more Priests maybe but when was the last time you saw an Admech played mono? Most of the time it is souped in and until they bring out more codexes that promote mono then it wont change.  Right now if you wanted a front end team to go up the board you soup in someone elses version, that is better.

 

On the bright side its the same with every army except marines.

[Prot]

I agree with everything you guys said, except it's the same with every other army.

 

Orks are amazing.

 

Tau is amazing.

 

Chaos Daemons still are way up there.

 

Astra is amazing.

 

Eldar is amazing.

 

Dark Eldar still great.

 

These can all win just about any tournament. And they aren't static lists really. 

[Son of Sacrifice]

Opening up forge world Mechanicum options has become necessary I feel. Previously I saw it as a luxury. I'm not an overly competitive player, but I'm bored with what I've got. An expansion like GSC received, with multiple new units and characters is what admech requires I think.

[brother_b]

There are only like 3-4 army builds making waves in tournaments at any time; what is it now imperial soup, new marines, GSC, and flyers? Sure throw in a chaos or tau win every now and then and Boom. I mean, the new imperial hotness includes three custodies captains on those jet bikes. They were in like every imperial soup list.

 

So yeah tournaments will always look that way. That’s why this game will never be balanced for tournaments.

 

Sorry for those that play that but without a massive overhaul to rules, serious reductions in number of units, and consistent tournament rules balance will never be a thing.

 

Tangent over my bad. I’m just reflecting off some stuff our own group has gone through recently.

 

I’ve got two new tanks on the build one will be transport one will be indirect fire. I hope to shake things up a little locally with both.

[Prot]

I would love to hear about BrotherB. Keep us updated.

 

To a degree I'm just frustrated that 1) the army has been pretty bad for creativity as well as performance for nearly all of 8th minus the point reduction era. 2) this has resulted in such a small player base that I'm having trouble even getting feedback from others on playing the new tanks. 

 

Although it's been (accurately) said. These units don't necessarily lend to new builds. As I too have said, they are somewhat more of the same. The Transport however has allowed me to make a move in a direction with a unit I always liked... Jazz Hands clowns. 

 

The problem is there is this very fine line with Admech that when crossed is almost instant death. It's that moment you realize you've spent too many points on that type of specialized unit and it hurts your bottom line. 

[synthaside]

I was supposed to reply to this wasn't I ... apologies  we've been moving house  and im just shattered today is my first thinking about 40k day that didn't involve packing all my sh"Te in boxes and driving it for 45 minutes.

I have a game tonight we are playing a Highlander ( 0-1 ) single Battalion with the only exception being troops and even those are limited with a " so many of each save class restriction"

Format is ITC Champ rules  but enforces no soup and, I am running both a transport full of fulgarites and a gunboat with a ferrumite , its the first major outing with the ferrumite as I've been in love with the non LoS gun , but  can only take 1 neutron i feel my anti tank is a little weak so i'm giving it a shot

A lot of people at the LGT were running them they are very popular due to points to shooting efficiency here  but seem to be more used against things like custodes 

 

[brother_b]

Great insight Prot. Do you think allowing 30k stuff would help?

 

I also would like to see some variety not sure what but someone on another thread mentioned slkitarri veterans (how long can they last?) but anything would be cool.

[synthaside]

So ,  performance of both of my Skorp's in last nights game was excellent  the flat 3 damage was reliable and it averaging about 6 damage a turn done to various t7 armoured targets while the incidental fire from the missles and stubbers plined away at marines quite nicely .

On average it did more than my Neutron onager ... while being faster , squishier and helping sneak around the rule of 1 ...
 

[Son of Sacrifice]

The most frustrating part for me, is how much potential there are for new admech units, from a lore standpoint in particular. 5 years after the army launched, we only have one unit of robots? We have the electro cult priests, are there no other cults on Mars? Where is my CC geared Dominus with six arms and spider legs? How about jump pack melta wielding servitors? How about a heavier version of the Onager with a light transport capacity?

[MajorNese]

Yeah, pretty much that.

 

The lore has heaps of units that would make things interesting. Everything from thralls to gene-wrought ogryn murder machines with limbs for weapons, flying transport tanks that unfold when landing (Titandeath) and so many other wacky designs they could turn into miniatures. The new transport/tank is a prime example of how it doesn't have to look like IG with cog decoration. And, having talked to the designer a year ago, there are far more designs than what GW produces/releases. Even the sketches for the manipulus/tank include parts for heavy skitarii.

 

It's not a lack of inspiration, it's a lack of focus - it's not like we would have a lack of primaris stuff anytime soon. Our entire codex has less complexity and viable builds than a single C:SM chapter with supplement.

[brother_b]

I wish I had some servitors around to help me assemble stuff. And paint. And clean the house... anyway.

 

The best player in our group runs chaos or imperial guard. Both are very strong armies. During an escalation league I lost every game, partly because I only played what I had painted, partly because it was much more of a tournament style feel. Either way, I felt that pushing my models forward gave me the best chance at board control.

 

I want to use the transport to move some units forward. I don’t know what to send with my transport. Maybe fist robots? Dragoons? I usually play Stygies.

 

I will use the tank that fires at units out of line of sight. This will really help me get at those darn mortar teams that somehow are able to shoot out of ruins with no problem. LOL.

[Xisor]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) ++
+ HQ + Tech-Priest Enginseer
+ Heavy Support +
Onager Dunecrawler: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Icarus Array
Onager Dunecrawler: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) ++
+ HQ +
Tech-Priest Dominus: Eradication Ray, Macrostubber
Tech-Priest Enginseer
Tech-Priest Enginseer

+ Troops +
Kataphron Breachers 3* Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

Skitarii Rangers: Omnispex Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle 2x Skitarii Ranger 2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): 2x Transuranic Arquebus

Skitarii Rangers Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle 4x Skitarii Ranger

Skitarii Vanguards: Enhanced Data-Tether 6x Skitarii Vanguard 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver Vanguard Alpha: Phosphor Blast Pistol, Taser Goad

Skitarii Vanguards: Omnispex 6x Skitarii Vanguard 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Arc Rifle): 3x Arc Rifle Vanguard Alpha: Arc Maul, Arc Pistol

Skitarii Vanguards: Omnispex 9x Skitarii Vanguard Vanguard Alpha: Power sword, Radium Pistol

+ Elites +
Secutarii Hoplites: 9x Secutarii Hoplite Hoplite Alpha: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield
Servitors 4x Servitor (Servo arm)
Servitors 4x Servitor (Servo arm)

+ Fast Attack +
Ironstrider Ballistarii Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon
Ironstrider Ballistarii Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon
Ironstrider Ballistarii Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon

+ Heavy Support +
Skorpius Disintegrator: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon
Skorpius Disintegrator: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber

+ Dedicated Transport +

Skorpius Dunerider: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Dunerider: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Dunerider: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Dunerider: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

++ Total: [132 PL, 1,992pts] ++

Obviously, there's a lot that could be tweaked, but a brigade + spearhead could be mighty intensive; 16CP?

It has the two Onagers & Skorpius for heavier firepower, plus the Icarus and Ironstriders for lesser High-Star firepower, and the sheer weight of fire from Skitarii/Duneriders for putting out anti-horde volume. And two Belleros for crafty business.

The HQ presence is the Engineseers for healing as needed, with a Dominus for utility, and the two blobs of servitors/Rangers for a very small bit of bubble wrap.

And the Hoplites are there more for fun than specific practicality - a combat force that's present amidst the Skitarii in Duneriders as they push to where they're needed?

---

I'm really tempted to try to build towards it.

Switching things up, like Dragoons in place of the Ironstriders, is also easy and interesting, really paring down the Troops in favour of more heaay stuff... I'm enjoying the speculation. :) Edited October 4, 2019 by Xisor