2000 PT Plague Marine Spam: Bolters and Blight Launchers 2.0

[DemetriiTZ]

After a lot of playtesting and voyaging off into different, experimental armies like 36 Plague Drones w/ Herald/Epidemius/Daemon Prince buffs, and an ocean of 90 Plaguebearers, 3 groups of Nurglings, and Thousand Sons + Daemons of Nurgle Psyker mindbullet storm (something like 15 casts per turn, with 12-13 of 'em being Smites/pseudoSmites like Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Firestorm of Tzeentch, etc.), I have returned back to this concept, and decided to attempt a different approach -- instead of 77 Plague Marines arranged in 11 squads of 7, supported by a wingless Prince and a bunch of Chaos Lords only armed with combibolters, as well as a summoned Poxbringer for -1 Toughness to improve my Bolter effectiveness vs harder targets like Knights, and a Biologis for close-range deterrence and insurance . . . I dropped the Prince (if he has no wings, why bother), and the Biologis (He's fine, but he's useless in this new variation of the theme), and did something a little different.

For your amusement and analysis, I present to you a different answer to the question, "Can Plague Marines be competitive?"

 

Yes. They can.

 

DEATH GUARD BATTALION: Primary (Warlord), +5 CP

 

HQ:

Sorcerer: 100

*Combibolter, Forcesword

 

Chaos Lord: 77

*Combibolter, Chainaxe

 

TROOPS:

 

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

 

ELITE:

 

Blightlord Terminator x 10: 432

*2 x Plagueflail, 2 x Blightlauncher, 6 x Combibolter, 8 x Bubonic Axe

 

DEATH GUARD BATTALION: Primary (Warlord), +5 CP

 

HQ:
 

Chaos Lord x 2: 77

*Combibolter, Chainaxe

 

TROOPS:

 

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

Plague Marine x 5: 102

*2 x Blightlauncher, 1 x Combibolter (Champion, Index Option)

 

AUX. DETACHMENT: UNALIGNED, -1 CP

 

Borewyrm Infestation x 1: 12

 

1999, 12CP (13 - 1 for Aux)

 

______________________________________________________

 

The idea is mostly preserved, but with a new approach: I reduced my Plague Marines from 77 down to 60, but added 10 Terminators, so I remain fluffy with 70 models.

 

Forget the fluff, though -- those of you with a more competitive mindset (I did that for years, and have plenty of tourney wins and trophies, but trying to pull off similar results with 'unusual' and 'fluffy' choices is more of a fun challenge for me these days) will be happy to know my overall firepower increased dramatically, with 188 shots fired downwind. 52 of those are Blight Launchers, which will be amplified considerably by my Sorcerer rocking Arch-Contaminator. There's also now a brick of 10 Blightlords which are also supported with Cloud of Flies (what else am I gonna use CP on, I'm Death Guard), Miasma, Blades, and perhaps Putrescent Vitality (I can always swap Smite and use whatever is handy in the matchup). However, those Blightlords will absolutely mulch anything Infantry, and will happily pound on chaff all day for easy ITC points. 70 bodies using Inexorable and NewBolters dumps a considerable number of shots into a very wide area, and 3 Chaos Lords firing 4 bolter rounds with BS2+ and providing "islands" of rerolls for 4 squads (3 groups of 4, with 3 Lords as their core) allow me to chill in cover midfield and DAKKADAKKADAKKA.

 

Even versus Aeldari Fliers with -2 To Hit, around 200 shots will find a way through, especially with rerollable 1's, and anything less will be ventilated.

 

Finally, in the Aux. Detach, I have a single Borewyrm. He's T4, 4+ Armor (3+ in cover, which he'll obviously live in), -1 To Be Hit naturally, very short and hard to see, 2 wounds so he doesn't die to a single lucky bullet, and has the ability to burrow underground and re-Deepstrike somewhere else every other turn. I have used him as a backfield objective camper who later tunnels forward and provides me with Linebreaker, or Behind Enemy Lines secondary points, and any attention aimed at him will likely be No-LOS firepower, which will definitely be more expensive than 12 points. He has tanked 28 IG mortar shots, 11 Plagueburst Mortars, and a deepstriking squad of Scions who undercommitted their firepower to him, assuming 6 Hellguns would be enough (They weren't. They died. Mr. Worm lived.).

 

There's a lot of redundancy, a lot of scoring, and a solid core of melee, all backed up by disposable cheap-o characters, with 136 bolter shots. Furthermore, for vehicles and other stuff that thinks bolters are not such a big deal, I have 26 Launchers firing another 52 shots, rerolling 1's to hit and everything to wound.

 

I say to you, Brothers -- Knights are many things, but when it comes to this deluge of Arch-Contaminator Launcher shots, I'll tell you what they're not: safe.

Edited July 24, 2019 by DemetriiTZ

[McElMcNinja]

I like it, my only question is do you think you would get better use out of spells and stratagems if you had bigger units?

The Boreworm is interesting as well.

[mel_danes]

Most likely would get better synergy with larger units, but then the army opens up to overkill.

5 guys can only fail 5 armor saves and 5 disgusting resilience rolls.

If an opponent does like 20 wound rolls with high AP and high damage, they can only kill 5 dudes. Not 10 or whatever.

 

MSU is a trade off, I use it all the time for Primarus for this very reason.

[Tokugawa]

ArchCo WL trait, is Must for blightlauncher tactics.

 

And not putting ArchCo WL trait on a DP, is straightly wrong. A lord could be snipered down, and the whole plan hosed.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Larger units would only increase the number of bolters while decreasing the numbers of blight launchers

 

Its kinda a shame we can't get a Plague havok type squad. I would love to see a unit of just blight launchers (or heavy blight launchers or even entropy cannons)

 

I think we might see a few more interesting builds in death guard if we weren't type to fitting heavy weapons in our main tactical unit

[DemetriiTZ]

ArchContaminator goes on the Sorc. Lords form a network of redundant reroll 1's, and in a Sniper-heavy situation (which is unheard of in my local meta), Sorc can be Clouded instead, as anything that can spam Snipers usually cannot threaten much with volume of fire -- in which case, Blightlords go without Cloud and simply tank with Miasma instead.

 

Flatly "Wrong" is a silly mindset. What you mean is, "This doesn't look like a meta list. I am confused." Remember, the same was said about Blightlords as well, until Don showed people that lists and units do not play themselves.

 

Try not to be so creatively limited. You do your namesake a great disservice, Tokugawa. The shogun weeps in the afterlife.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Tokugawa - a Daemon Prince would have little point in a list of this sort

 

They are too expensive to be used as a cheap unit buffer.

[DemetriiTZ]

As far as large units for stratagems, Blightlords take buffs well, and prepared positions is armywide and quite nice on 70 T5 bodies. I have been considering dumping the Borewyrm to make the Sorc into a Terminator Sorc, however.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I've received a lot of inspiration from this list DemetriiTZ, great post!

 

I know it loses the Plaguemarine spam/footslog feel, but do you you think you'd gain much by having less squads and including some PBC's to support the ground pounders?

[DemetriiTZ]

I have attempted adding PBCs, but it actually made the army weaker vs T'au and Guard. I found bolters much stronger at chewing through Guard infantry, Fire Warriors, Drones, etc, and Launchers were way more accurate antitank.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I've found this really helpful as I'd like to have a thematic death guard force

 

What are your thoughts on close combat weapons. I know a lot of people don't approve of close combat squads but I would think that properly supported they could be effective.

 

If nothing else we can blight grenade a target and sit in hand to hand confident in our ability to weather the hand flailing received in return.

 

And if we don't crush the target they have to deside if they want to stay in and be ground down attitionally or fall back and be a target for another squad

[Zombs]

It's just glorious. Hope it will serve you well! Only change I would do is to give the balesword to one of the chaos lord + the special relic. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Zombs

[DemetriiTZ]

I considered Balesword Relic, but without a jumppack, it's a little limited. Hand to hand is actually really dangerous for us -- there's a lot of stuff that's safer to shoot to death, like GSC Acolytes with rocksaws, where bolters to the face seem safer.

 

18-24" doubletap range is very helpful.

[McElMcNinja]

I have a game sat and I'm trying this list. It's against Tau. I went with the jump-pack and relic, in case I decide to deepstrike I can get over to them for the re-roll. The relic is for the chance I do hit combat and I had plenty of CP, so why not. I also dropped the flails for more shots.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [80 PL, 1,213pts, 8CP] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Chainsword, Combi-bolter

 

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Bolt pistol, Force stave, Fugaris' Helm, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

+ Elites +

 

Blightlord Terminators [27 PL, 427pts]

. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [53 PL, 787pts, 4CP] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Detachment CP [5CP]

 

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Chainsword, Combi-bolter

 

Chaos Lord with Jump Pack [6 PL, 99pts]: Combi-bolter, Plaguebringer, Power sword

 

+ Troops +

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

Plague Marines [7 PL, 102pts]

. Plague Champion

. . INDEX: Combi-bolter, Plague knife

. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

 

++ Total: [133 PL, 2,000pts, 12CP] ++

[DemetriiTZ]

Interesting, but I don't like the lack of flails for more combibolters -- or the Balesword on the Champion. Just a personal thing, but I'd probably keep 'em as an all-comers weapon, because flails alone often account for 12-18 or more dead infantry by themselves when you run into stuff like Orks, and also do well at pasting bigger targets due to way more attacks overall. Finally, Grandfather's Blessing can allow you to resurrect dead flails when the unit gets depleted, which can be key.

[McElMcNinja]

The balesword is because I had an extra point to spend and I have him modeled that way. I was thinking the Blightlords wouldn't make it into combat, I rarely make the 9" charge, so I just assumed shots would be a better option. Hadn't thought of grandfathers blessing, will have to remember that.

[Special Officer Doofy]

@McElMcNinja How are you putting a jump pack on a chaos lord in a death guard legion? More index shenanigans?

[McElMcNinja]

It was a brutal game, I was tabled in the fifth turn. His Tiger Shark and Riptides took out most of my Plague Marines rather quickly. I managed to kill off a bumch of drones, a few characters, and a fire team. He did more damage to himself with his nova reactors.

 

I don't consider it "index shenanigans", GW published the flowchart which allows access to war gear from index data sheets that was not supported in a codex.

Edited August 4, 2019 by McElMcNinja

[MrFlutterPie]

Any reason why people are using the sorcerer instead of the plaguecaster?  Stats are pretty comparable but for 10pts more T5 and DR seems like a good deal.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Funny enough against the tau I found the blight hawlers did some good work.

 

Spotted the pathfinder squad turn one and fragged the heck out of them immediately. That limited his marker light until he brought his drone reserves in later turns

[Charlo]

So DemetriiTZ, with the advent of Shock Assault, all of your Plague Marines & Terminators just got an extra attack on the charge/ when charged. Seems pretty gnarly and a great way to amp up the output in the list. Any thoughts from that?

 

The extreme MSU with blight launchers is so cool too!

[DemetriiTZ]

I haven't read it yet! I'm looking into it now!

[DemetriiTZ]

I'm actually pretty hyped. 11 attacks in melee + 12 shots prior to charging sounds fairly brutal versus stuff like 'Nids and Orks, and might well be sufficient to swamp enemy units from other, more Elite armies. I'm planning on getting a few games in this Saturday to see how it goes.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Potentially if we don't get FAQed we could absolutely multch stuff with flails.

 

On a blightlord that would be 3d3 attacks

 

4d3 on the charge with a Plague marine squad max damage goes to 24 per squad

 

3 attacks for combined weapons like the duel plague knife or the axe and mace

 

I am really looking forward to getting my close combat armed squad into battle

[DemetriiTZ]

Indeed.

 

3 x MSU Squads attack 33 times in melee with S4 AP0 D1 Reroll Wounds (ArchContam) + 24 Bolter shots + 12 Launcher Shots = 69 (giggity) attacks on a target in melee-threat range.