We're Gonna Get a Book!

[Lemondish]

But Zweihanders and witch hating are the fun bits!

You might be in luck. After checking the UM supplement, it barely mentions successors, so I don't expect IF to be treated differently.

And if SpanishInquisitor rumour pans out, about BT rules coming out on a Vigilus like campaign book, GW just needs to sort out CF doctrines really, unless they use the same as IF.

Due to the fact that the supplements are not coming out in quick succession, It lends me to believe that there might be some truth about that rumour, and this is my assumption, BT rules will come with the psychic awakening campaign around October/November.

It would actually fit really well for a witch hunting faction to be involved with the psychic awakening.

 

Certainly hope they do get some love there, though I don't mind if they're inside the Fists supplement.

[d36williams]

Could be a Last Wall supplement...

 

1 CP, this unit gains Black Templars, Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists keyword

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Could be a Last Wall supplement...

 

1 CP, this unit gains Black Templars, Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists keyword

As those are NOT the only Imperial Fists descendants in existence (don't forget the Invaders!), how about simply adding "Sons of Dorn" to the keywords of Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, and Black Templars, and then letting the "Last Wall" Warlord Trait affect all units with the "Sons of Dorn" keywords? Ideally, this Warlord Trait should boost all units under his command, IN ADDITION TO allies with the "Sons of Dorn" keyword- maybe by giving them a 6+ Feel No Pain and +1 to their Feel No Pain rolls (hope the Iron Hands won't accuse us of plagiarizing their "The Flesh Is Weak" Special Rule), or allowing them to re-roll all failed Morale Checks?

[Aothaine]

Anyone else excited about the possibility of Imperial Fist dice being released from GW? I'm super hyped! I love collecting GW's dice. I wonder what they will use for the numbers. Would be cool if they used the bolter shots like they did with the black and silver dice in the early 2000s. Still have about 16 of those dice. :D

[Montford]

In the new SM Codex you can make a Chaplain that's a real melee monster. I wonder if the IF Book will have a variation on that.

[Red_Shift]

A close combat character would be great. Emperors champion fits the bill though and could be a sons of Dorn thing.

 

Aothaine I'm back and forth on the idea of dice, I collect and hobby but I don't play the game much if at all so they won't be that much use to me but I'm tempted just so I can shout "I cast fist!" Every time I roll them. Probably get more use in necromunda and kill team than 40k though.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

A close combat character would be great.

Let's have Darnath Lysander cross the Rubicon Primaris, get Primaris-optimized Tactical Dreadnought Armor (with Invulnerable Save) that can serve as a prototype for "Primaris Terminators," and a bolt pistol so he can also take advantage of the Bolter Drill Warlord Trait. If he's not to become the next Imperial Fists Chapter Master, let Lysander become Chapter Master of a new Successor Chapter- maybe named the Sons of Slaughter, in honor of a hero of the War of the Beast- along with his "Primaris Terminator" Honor Guards.

Emperors champion fits the bill though and could be a sons of Dorn thing.

An Emperor's Champion for all Imperial Fists successors? I second that proposal.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Hate to be selfish here, but I think I'd be against sharing the symbol of my chapter... 

 

And I know he was available to _everyone_ at some point (horrible decision I'm glad was backpedaled on)

 

That said, I think an IF supplement should definately get a melee unit or champion or similiar that can be pull the same weight. Perhaps look at the IF Legion units for inspiration. Realistically I think about what the scars got is more or less what anyone can hope for.

 

So many questions that won't really be answered until the supplement actually gets here.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Hate to be selfish here, but I think I'd be against sharing the symbol of my chapter...

 

And I know he was available to _everyone_ at some point (horrible decision I'm glad was backpedaled on)

 

That said, I think an IF supplement should definately get a melee unit or champion or similiar that can be pull the same weight. Perhaps look at the IF Legion units for inspiration.

How about giving the other Imperial Fists successors HQ units with the Emperor's Champion's Profile, but with different melee weapons (the Black Sword remaining unique to the Black Templars), e.g., the "Emperor's Hand" (power fists or boltstorm gauntlets wielder), "Emperor's Executioner" (power axe wielder), "Emperor's Wrath" (thunder hammer wielder), etc.?

[Rizara]

the fist book should just have a special Chapter/company Champion, that can be primaris or regular marine.   They do have the feast of blades, so in the fluff they do have champions who are all akin to the emperor's champion.  keep that guy a special character, as if he is a chapter champion on steroids, but all fist successors should have their Feast of blades Champion represented. 

 

I just hope that maybe when they release the book, Dorn finally gets a model so the last wall protocol can actually take effect.  I hope for dorn, but honestly any other loyalist primarch would be greatly appreciated at this point. Someone other than bobbyG.  

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

How about giving the other Imperial Fists successors HQ units with the Emperor's Champion's Profile, but with different melee weapons (the Black Sword remaining unique to the Black Templars), e.g., the "Emperor's Hand" (power fists or boltstorm gauntlets wielder), "Emperor's Executioner" (power axe wielder), "Emperor's Wrath" (thunder hammer wielder), etc.?

 

 

I mean, this just comes down to me being all "Mine!" with the regards to the EC. There's no reason why anyone's wishlisting should pay my wishes any respect.

 

And even looking at just my emotional response to this idea, what could I possibly have to argue against a "Not-EC" wielding even a twohanded sword even (though perhaps not "the Black Sword" like you say)? He should theoretically and potentially wield whatever, twohanded swords included, and have whatever statline. I can maybe extend myself to express that if I were to be the one to name this theoretical character, I'd probably avoid naming him "Emperor's X", but that's just because I feel it draws to the forefront "=Emperor's Champion for others, but variant name". But even that is, why should anyone else care?

 

Like I'm just saying I don't feel like it should be "The" EC, but what protest could even have against anything else?

[Red_Shift]

I think it's just a wild dream to see Dorn, that being said though, if it's just a book and dice I can't see why they would delay release the way they have. I'm hopeful we get something unexpected.

 

Primaris terminators are a particularity big wish list item for me. Another poster suggested a space hulk re release would be a good opportunity for gw to bring them out and I agree. They could even stick zoats in the set!

[jeremy1391]

So since both the available supplements for white scars and ultramarines seem to have a lot of their rules tied to the fluff here are some things I think we may see.

 

An army wide buff for staying in the devestator doctrine (duh)

1.Something that makes terminators better like move D3 closer after deep strike

2.Would not be shocked if we have a teleportarium strat

3.A Shoot again strat

4.Seismic devastation strat being able to be used by any unit.

5. Primaris character (maybe Garadon)

6. Tank hunter strat

7. Our relics being reimagined from the sentinels of Terra book (bones of osrak, standard of staganda, spartean, eye of hypnoth, angels grace etc.)

 

Just my two cents.

[casb1965]

You don't have to come out of Devastator doctrine if you don't want to, it's only if you do you can't go back.

 

A shoot again strat mixed with Devastator doctrine, ignoring cover, double-hit 6s, captain reroll 1 to hit, lieutenant reroll 1 to wound might just be overkill :)

[ranulf the revenant]

 

 

And for those of a more crimson persuasion this also looks pretty sweet 

 

 

Kind of a condrum in itself already (or maybe not?). Aren't all your hit rolls 'modified' already as soon as you target a unit with 5 models more then your own? Or does it mean "natural sixes" in this case? So despite modification coming into effect, a 6 on your dice is an extra hit, and a 5 isn't?

 

Kind of a rookie question, perhaps...

Edited August 27, 2019 by ranulf the revenant

[Lemondish]

Kind of a condrum in itself already (or maybe not?). Aren't all your hit rolls 'modified' already as soon as you target a unit with 5 models more then your own? Or does it mean "natural sixes" in this case? So despite modification coming into effect, a 6 on your dice is an extra hit, and a 5 isn't?

 

Kind of a rookie question, perhaps...

 

It means a natural six, as you put it. So any roll to hit of a 6, even though with +1 to hit this modified to 7, results in an additional hit. It does not mean a roll of 5 would trigger it, even though this roll would be modified to a 6 with +1 to hit. Only the unmodified result triggers it. 

 

Which likewise means that even when you're firing at a target with -1 to hit (or more), you still gain the additional hit on unmodified rolls of 6 even though the modifier would drop that roll to a 5 (or below). 

 

You don't have to come out of Devastator doctrine if you don't want to, it's only if you do you can't go back.

 

A shoot again strat mixed with Devastator doctrine, ignoring cover, double-hit 6s, captain reroll 1 to hit, lieutenant reroll 1 to wound might just be overkill 

 

I think the important part is that, just like how Ultras want to get to and stay in Tactical and White Scars want to get to Assault, Imperial Fists are speculated to gain a benefit from Devastator Doctrine so they will want to maintain a longer presence in it than others might. I think that will be an interesting trade-off if it turns out to be so. After all, our Chapter Tactic wants to focus mostly on bolt weapons where a vast majority would be largely impacted by being in Tactical. 

 

It's also entirely possible that we want to be in Tactical for siege purposes. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Lemondish

[MegaVolt87]

Not going to happen BUT what about a relic solerite power fist like Custodes get, master crafted stat bump, with mortal wounds on 6's to wound. 

[Lemondish]

I toyed with sharing it because I'm not very trusting of this particular source, but word is the extended Doctrine will be plus 1 damage for heavy weapons in the Devastator Doctrine against Vehicles and Buildings.

 

I wouldn't put much stock in this, but figured it was still worth sharing anyway.

 

If this is true, I'm disappointed.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Lemondish

[Happy-inquisitor]

I toyed with sharing it because I'm not very trusting of this particular source, but word is the extended Doctrine will be plus 1 damage for heavy weapons in the Devastator Doctrine against Vehicles and Buildings.

 

I wouldn't put much stock in this, but figured it was still worth sharing anyway.

 

If this is true, I'm disappointed.

 

If true that would amusingly cancel out all that IH nonsense with blobs of dreadnoughts - while being obviously good at wrecking Knights, Eldar Flyers and Lords Discordant (all of which remain highly relevant things to be able to wreck).

 

Probably 6 weeks away so we may as well be patient, while of course greedily lapping up the tiniest drops of rumour in the meantime :)

[Lemondish]

 

 

I toyed with sharing it because I'm not very trusting of this particular source, but word is the extended Doctrine will be plus 1 damage for heavy weapons in the Devastator Doctrine against Vehicles and Buildings.

 

I wouldn't put much stock in this, but figured it was still worth sharing anyway.

 

If this is true, I'm disappointed.

If true that would amusingly cancel out all that IH nonsense with blobs of dreadnoughts - while being obviously good at wrecking Knights, Eldar Flyers and Lords Discordant (all of which remain highly relevant things to be able to wreck).

 

Probably 6 weeks away so we may as well be patient, while of course greedily lapping up the tiniest drops of rumour in the meantime :)

Understanding that I think it's fake, I'll still disagree.

 

One half of it is useless against any list that doesn't bring buildings which is...*checks notes* every list in 8th edition. As for the vehicle portion, given the power of many meta infantry heavy lists, it appears useful for very likely half one's matches, and even for much less than half of that match. It's likewise useless against Monsters. It doesn't synergize well with many of the more thematic Imperial Fist units as they're usually fortifying a position with infantry, and most infantry aside from Devastators aren't carrying Heavy weapons. I mean, is a squad of immobile stalker bolt rifle Intercessors killing vehicles really what you think of when you think Imperial Fists? I guess Centurions work out well.

 

Common popular lists these days include riffs and alterations on Jim Vesal's demons list, or Nick Rose's Orks, or Nanavati or Juice's GSC. Swarms of Nids, Rubric and Tzaangor heavy thousand sons, Red Corsairs focused CSM hordes, Tau riptides and broadsides, and marines with one or two vehicles maximum are other very common builds. The only thing this makes us better against are the three you mentioned, but then once those threats are gone the extended Doctrine producers no impact.

 

And nobody is bringing fething buildings.

 

These also aren't obscure lists, either. I name dropped those who pilot them to consistent ITC wins for a reason.

 

But even if true, this is all without any idea of the Stratagem support so it might go like White Scars and be temporarily powerful but we're then meant to operate with the additional tools from traits and strats instead.

 

I'm just really not liking this direction, is all.

[casb1965]

@ lemondish - maybe a stratagem that allows Heavy weapons to stay in Devastator doctrine whilst the rest of the army switch to tactical would work, it does seem to fit.

[Lemondish]

@ lemondish - maybe a stratagem that allows Heavy weapons to stay in Devastator doctrine whilst the rest of the army switch to tactical would work, it does seem to fit.

Yes, strats would totally adjust my outlook. However, I still don't believe it (maybe I just don't want to).

[Aothaine]

These codex supplement releases are looking great! Can't wait until we get ours! Super hyped! I'm starting to think that we'll get a October release. Pre-orders for Raven Guard and Iron Hands are going up this Friday, 09/13/2019. But we might be pushed back to November. Depends on when Sisters get their well deserved release.

[Argonte]

The guy in the french forum is getting everything right so I would bet the rumor about our +1 damage to vehicles and buildings is true Edited September 10, 2019 by Argonte

[Metzombie]

The guy in the french forum is getting everything right so I would bet the rumor about our +1 damage to vehicles and buildings is true

I really hope he is wrong on this one or at least missing a part because it is not very interesting and does nothing against some armys.