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What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

Claws and Effect

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Shadow Captain Vyper Venerable Brother

Shadow Captain Vyper

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No one is talking about using Snipers to target knights. Everyone is talking about using our characters and heavy weapons to leverage Surgical Strikes against Knights, since most are characters.

 

Every recent post you've made recently just reads like naysaying bordering on trolling.

Fair enough, I'm not meaning to bring the vibe down. For the record there are a couple of people who mentioned snipers targeting knights, but doesn't really matter. Not meaning to troll, or be discouraging. I'll try and post more positive ideas rather than question the ideas other people have had, or just keep quiet.

It's all good my man. I cant speak for all my fellow frater here, but I can say I call this place home, and most of us share one thing in common: we are big on seeking answers to problems, preferably with the correct and optimal application of force - economy if you will.

 

Continue to point out vulnerabilities, express concern, or provide insight all day long. General malaise however reads as "This dude doesnt like what he sees and isn't interested in seeing any different". That sort of mindset is the antithesis of the Corax way-of-war.

 

When I get back to a keyboard and off mobile, I do want to address your post about RG lethality pound for pound opposed to other Astartes in each category of war, as I feel there are strengths in almost every category the RG possess over their brothers.

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SyNidus Venerable Brother

SyNidus

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With all these reviews and leaks...I think it's safe to say we know what's coming out with decent certainty. And I can't help but write lists. The cool thing about writing lists with the RG supplement is that you also have to think of the tricks/tools that you're including (everyone does that, but somehow feels more complex than before). I think that complexity also makes it more difficult to look constructively at the tools we have and the potential.

So think of this as a thought-starter for your own lists, and also something to ground discussions on.

Anyway, here's the list:

2000 Pts

Battalion:
Shrike - 130

Captain - Raven's Fury, TH/SS, Swift & Deadly - 143

Chaplain - Jump Pack, Benediction of Fury - Master of Ambush - 90

Incursors - 5 man - Haywire mine - 105

Incursors - 5 man - Haywire mine - 105

Intercessors - 8 man - Stalker Bolters - 136

 

Spearhead:

Phobos Capt - Korvidae Bolts - 99

Phobos Lt - Ex Tenebris - 81

Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72

Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72

Eliminators - 3 man - 3 Snipers - 72

Dev Centurions - 5 man - Gravcannons, Missiles - 400

 

Vanguard:

Phobos Lib - Env. Darkness, Temporal Corridor, The Abyss (ToM) - 101

Invictors - Incendium - 131

Invictors - Incendium - 131

Invictors - Incendium - 131

 

Total: 1999
Starting CPs: 10 - 5 = 5

 

 

Deployment: 
- Invictors right in the opponent's face.

- The Eliminators will camp home objectives/deny landing spots for enemy deepstrikers, along with the intercessors.

- Incursors with the Libby will be holding centre-field.

- Jump infantry will be deployed at the edge of my deployment zone. Either I use master of Ambush to bring the Chaplain & Captain into a forward position to support the invictors. Or I use the infiltrators strat to move to mid-field. Also, the other warlord trait grants free advance & charge in a bubble.

- Grav Cents - most likely in deepstrike using SftS

 

Roles:

- Got a decent anti-character suite, between the eliminators, intercessors, phobos captain & phobos lt.

- Got pretty strong (if fragile) close-combat capabilities with invictors, Slam cap, Shrike & Chaplain (that relic crozius is pretty awesome).

- Librarian has 2 main roles - Using Temporal Corridor to push Shrike up the field for that potentially 40" threat radius, or using Enveloping Darkness to deny overwatch. After Shrike is delivered in the enemy's lines, he can use temporal corridor on himself to get closer and smite.

- Got flexible anti-tank/anti-monster with the grav centurions & strat. I think they are a good gun on a hardy platform which i can deploy exactly where I want. It also helps that they have missiles as well.

- Incursors for grabbing objectives, and haywires for making key locations on the field dangerous (objectives, also double up with the booby-trap stratagem) 

 

Again, this is to get the ball rolling...

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts, and the tools you'd like to use in your lists.
 

Edited by SyNidus
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superwill Battle-Brother

superwill

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It's all good my man. I cant speak for all my fellow frater here, but I can say I call this place home, and most of us share one thing in common: we are big on seeking answers to problems, preferably with the correct and optimal application of force - economy if you will.

 

Continue to point out vulnerabilities, express concern, or provide insight all day long. General malaise however reads as "This dude doesnt like what he sees and isn't interested in seeing any different". That sort of mindset is the antithesis of the Corax way-of-war.

 

When I get back to a keyboard and off mobile, I do want to address your post about RG lethality pound for pound opposed to other Astartes in each category of war, as I feel there are strengths in almost every category the RG possess over their brothers.

 

 

Thanks dude - I'm always keen for solutions and ways forward, and I think maybe my initial reactions to the spoilers just got away from me on this one and came across a little more pessimistic and negative than I intended. I must confess I'm generally playing in a pretty cut-throat competitive meta, with the focus always on preparing for ITC tournaments, and that has probably shaped my reaction where I've felt torn between loving the general direction they're going for (with a couple of miss-swings) but knowing that they'll need to be competitive on the table or they'll end up on the shelf, and I would so desperately love for them to be an army I can take to a tournament.

 

Would definitely be keen to hear your thoughts on how they can compete in regards to some of those categories I mentioned (or really any other key strengths or ideas that people have found) and I won't turn it into a debate. In truth, there have actually been a few times I've written out a post to point out a flaw in someone else's idea or statement and ended up deleting it because I didn't want to come across as argumentative (which evidently I should've worked harder at :tongue.:)

 

I think there are some cool ideas emerging about infiltrating units pre-game, and some really interesting combos there. Speaking of which, has anyone seen the wording of "Echo of the Ravenspire" for themselves? Is it definitely the following turn that they set it back up in? Or is it just like Upon Wings of Fire? Would be very cool to be able to redeploy a Chaplain after he's cast his Litany, but if he disappears for a whole turn then that doesn't work - would need the Libby to Shadowstep him, but that's a bigger investment. I've posted my first draft in the army list section.

Edited by superwill
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Claws and Effect Venerable Brother

Claws and Effect

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Didnt the time of malcador get erratad to be +1 power only from the same discipline? Phone posting makes it hard to check

"A model with this relic knows one additional Psychic power from any Discipline they have access to"

 

So a Phobos Librarian has access to 3 disciplines to choose from.

Edited by Claws and Effect
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Claws and Effect Venerable Brother

Claws and Effect

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I'm building a beatstick Librarian now.

 

Jump pack Librarian with a force sword and pistol of choice.

 

He's going to have the 4+ invuln power and the S = LD power, and I'm giving him Armor of Shadows and using the 2 Warlord trait Strategem on him, one of them will be advance and charge. Going to pair him up with a Jump Chaplain and a 10 man squad of Vanguard Veterans. And Shrike.

 

If I'm smart about it that cluster of dudes can wreak some serious havoc.

Edited by Claws and Effect
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Nusquam Venerable Brother

Nusquam

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Posted

 

 

Didnt the time of malcador get erratad to be +1 power only from the same discipline? Phone posting makes it hard to check

"A model with this relic knows one additional Psychic power from any Discipline they have access to"

So a Phobos Librarian has access to 3 disciplines to choose from.

Wasn't quite what I was asking. I was aking about an errata. I looked it wasn't there. The old wording did grant you Librarius explicitly in the previous dex. But I did check the wording on the tome and the supplements wording on what powers you can take. The tome is indeed what they "have access to". Phobos doesnt have access to Librarius, and if you take Umbra then that detachment only has access to that. It doesnt let you dip outside what you dont have access to from my understanding.
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dode74 Battle-Brother

dode74

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Posted (edited)

 

Didnt the time of malcador get erratad to be +1 power only from the same discipline? Phone posting makes it hard to check

"A model with this relic knows one additional Psychic power from any Discipline they have access to"

 

So a Phobos Librarian has access to 3 disciplines to choose from.

 

Does it?  The Phobos Librarian datasheet states it has access to Smite and Obscuration.  The supplements give chapter psykers access to the chapter powers.  How are they getting access to a third discipline?

Edited by dode74
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MajorNese Veteran

MajorNese

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Posted

No other chapter can use every single codex entry in the book to its maximum effectiveness upon deployment of that unit.

This.

 

Deployment usually limits of how much use a unit is. Especially with primaris. Our options to both use the old SftS via WL trait and deep strike any non-mechanized unit enable a lot of stuff that others simply can't reproduce. As before, our chapter makes units viable in roles others can't, and deep striking hellblasters are probably the prime example.

 

Deep strike just relies on us surviving first round, and clearing enough chaff for landing sites. The pay-more-CP-for-strats strat might actually help - all those "pay 1CP for d3 MW" things, TFC double disruption and others that might alpha strike us might fail or entirely drain CP, playing mind games with our opponents if it might actually be worth it.

 

Yes, other chapters might be better with always-useful super doctrines. But I guess we can throw so many wrenches in so many places, it might work well after all. Characters need to hold back, deep strike areas have to be claimed, strats have to be conservative first turn, charge distance calculations have to include Advancing, and so on - the hoops your opponent has to jump through just add up, to the point of making them a lot less effective. How much less effective remains to be seen, but that will be an interesting time...

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Bluflash Battle-Brother

Bluflash

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Question on wording, and I know this is tough since we don't have the book in hand yet, but how does Marksman's Honors interact with Korvidari Bolts?
The bolts aren't technically a weapon, they add an ability. And Marksman's Honors says they don't affect relic weapons.

Is it possible to get him to 36", No LOS, D4?

Or instead would you have the choice of a 30" D4 LOS shot, or a 36" D3 No-Los?

I'm really trying to find a WL trait that works well for the Phobos Captain in the back line. Because RG has very good odds of getting slay the warlord, I'd like to use my back-line cap as WL so it's less likely my opponent will be able to get that point as well. The other option is Echos of Ravenspire for mid/late objective grabbing/surprise sniping.
 

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dode74 Battle-Brother

dode74

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Marksmans Honours:

Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of ranged weapons this

Warlord is equipped with. This does not apply to Grenades

or Relics.

 

Korvidari Bolts starts with "when you give a model this Relic".

 

That says to me that they don't work together.  So you would choose either the Master Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine with Marksmans Honours (so D4), or to increase range by 6" but go D3.

 

I think a backline capt could take the Vox Espiritum as a Chapter Master for a 9" reroll bubble.  Depends on whether you need the Chapter Master elsewhere, ofc...

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Cryptix Veteran

Cryptix

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The Kordavi bolts do not make the Rifle a weapon - an upgrade like that that doesn't actually replace a weapon doesn't make it a relic unless it actually says so, like for master crafted weapon.
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Claws and Effect Venerable Brother

Claws and Effect

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Didnt the time of malcador get erratad to be +1 power only from the same discipline? Phone posting makes it hard to check

"A model with this relic knows one additional Psychic power from any Discipline they have access to"

 

So a Phobos Librarian has access to 3 disciplines to choose from.

Does it? The Phobos Librarian datasheet states it has access to Smite and Obscuration. The supplements give chapter psykers access to the chapter powers. How are they getting access to a third discipline?
Fair point.

 

Phobos Librarian has access to Umbramancy and Obscuration. Could be fun to take Temporal Corridor and Shadowstep and have a dude whose job is to fling other dudes.

 

A regular or Primaris Librarian would have access to Umbramancy and Librarius. Because Librarius is in the main Codex and thus usable by any Chapter.

 

So the Tome would let them mix powers from 2 disciplines, but not 3.

Edited by Claws and Effect
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SyNidus Venerable Brother

SyNidus

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Posted (edited)

No idea about those releases. But i've been thinking about an impulsor spam/drukhari-esque list among others.

Although I only really see hellblasters being useful, not so much as a hammer but as a mobile reserve to bring additional firepower from one flank to another?

 

Actually, i just had a thought. Perhaps using intercessors with bolt rifles would be a good way to clear chaff and screens so that our alpha striking elements have a clear path to the hard targets which the opponent would inevitably be hiding.

Edited by SyNidus
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Dracos Venerable Brother

Dracos

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I think many of us are starting to see a common use for much of what has been previewed and our collective vision for how RG is going to play. Not all of us see the exact thing but I think many of us are sharing similar ideas

 

Centurions and Aggressors shoved up close.

 

Hellblasters or Intercessors in Impulsors again pushing forward.

 

Shrike and Reivers or Vanguard tearing up the opposition soft underbelly.

 

The beginnings of a selection of HQs to boost these troops or utilize deployment and maneuvers rather than just being buff bots of Snash Heroes

 

 

I know there is moaning about all this being the antithesis of what our Chapter Tactic calls for. That Space Marines are suppose to be shooting .... and we are .... but I think GW is giving us some very lethal tools that we are going to have to learn to use each when, where, and how. To be smarter players to get the most out of what feels like is going to be a very sharp razor if we keep working at it. Sharing ideas, being open to each other’s experiences at the table and making anecdotal events part of the equation but realizing they are just that

 

Sorry it’s late and I’m excited .... and still days away from getting the book actually in out hands.

 

 

 

PS: I’ll be posting a thread for the HQ painting event in next day if two.

Edited by Dracos
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SkimaskMohawk Venerable Brother

SkimaskMohawk

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Posted
I think company veterans with plasma guns will be quality. It's what I ran with issodon back after the first book dropped and it was extremely mean. Theyre very cheap, can hold up in melee well with the chainsword+shock assault and can intercept wounds. The only real advantage hellblasters have over them is their wound count, but you pay 33% more for that.
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