What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

[Claws and Effect]

 

I'm strongly considering some herohammer.

 

2 Librarians, 1 jump pack, 1 Phobos.

 

Shrike and a Phobos Captain.

 

A jump Chaplain and a Phobos Lieutenant.

 

Running in a double Battalion.

Sounds cool - how would you use them?

Jump pack Libby is getting the 4+ invuln power and Spectral Blade to be a beatstick character. He's also going to have Armor of Shadows for more durability since he only has 4 wounds.

 

The Chaplain will likely be the Warlord with Master of the Trifold Path for a second Warlord trait. Likely Swift and Deadly and Imperium's Sword.

 

Shrike will be going with them, but not as the Warlord. I'm setting it up that way so Shrike grants rerolls and doesn't have to go in first to deny overwatch. Going to run a 10 man Vanguard Veterans squad with twin claws with those 3 so I can use Hanmer of Wrath on something for some mortal wounds.

 

The Phobos Libby will have Shadowstep and a power to be determined later. He's the utility guy.

 

The Phobos Captain will be getting Ex Tenebris and babysitting the Eliminators to make sure they don't miss.

 

The Phobos LT will be deep striking in with a unit of Reivers for late game objectives.

[thewarriorhunter]

I've thought of something similar, I lack the jump pack libby but will soon have the chaplain for Draco's HQ painting event.

[Dracos]

Aww Dracos, you're adorable. Your post made me all warm and fuzzy inside. :D

Chew on some stalks Cornhusker :eyeroll: lol

[Biscuittzz]

Maybe I'm not playing at a high enough competitive level to realise the benefits but Stranglehold strat seems very.....meh. Most reviews are giving it an A grade or top tier strategem for us. I can't see how at 2 cps for a 5+ chance to add a cp onto your opponents strategem and/or they lose it is worthwhile, it just seems too expensive and low probability. Only once per battle too.

 

It's very fluffy but unfortunately as I'm finding out about a lot of the new traits/strategems just not very good in the current game.

 

Am I missing something here?

[CCE1981]

@Buiscuittzz

 

I’m there with you, I don’t see too many Stratagems turn 1. Stratagems tend to drop turn 2 in my experience.

 

Once per battle doesn’t phase me, it’s that it is limited to first turn only that cheapens it.

[Dracos]

Yeah it’s fluffy but crap on the table for the combination of cost and uncertainty. Make it 3+ and make it a available any turn and then it’s competitive with the other strats at 2CP. Right now no way.

[thewarriorhunter]

One correction is it's not once per battle, it's on turn 1. So if you don't use it then you don't use it ever.

 

I think if it's a 5+ it should be once per battle but during any round

 

or

 

Make it a 3+ during first turn.

[Biscuittzz]

Yea I think that would have been a much better way to go about it.

 

Seems some of the strategems are horrendously priced. Decapitating blow is 2cp to get a -1 Ld when the enemy warlord is slain?! I wouldn't use it even if it was 1!

Edited September 22, 2019 by Biscuittzz

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Stranglehold is good but not an auto-use. Certain lists blow 80% of their cp on t1, and for them Stranglehold is decent.

[ShinyRhino]

I played in our FLGS monthly tourney again yesterday, 2000 points, ITC format.

It was my first use of the new codex, but I wasn't using the supplement because we'r have a "one week rule" for new books.

 

I brought the same literary I usually bring, but added three Inceptors with Assault Bolters, and swapped the lone speeder unit foe a VenDread with TLLC and Fist.

 

My first game was against a relatively new Space Wolves player. I played him last month and beat him soundly both times. Not a great gauge of the book or my list, but fun games and a good opponent. I managed to burn through 8 CP in two turns trying out the new stuff.

 

Second was against Ultramarines. Bobby G, two Redemptors, two units of Suppressors, two units of Las Fusil Eliminators, Chaplains, LTs, Chapter Master, Predator, some Intercessors, and five Infiltrators.

My opponent was unfamiliar and frustrated by all the extra ITC rules, but he beat me soundly because I had an inferior list and wasn't paying attention. Example: I left my VenDread inside a garage bay terrain piece for three turns because I forgot it was there.

 

Final game was against Iron Hands. Three Repulsor Executioners, Chapter Master, LT, tons of Aggressors, and token infantry units.

He won a narrow victory, but could have had me tabled in two or three turns if he hadn't leashed the trio of Executioners to his buffbots. It severely limited his firepower options because of all the LOS blocking terrain on the board.

 

Highlights of my list:

 

Phobos Captain's rifle stinks against Marines. Hits plenty, but rarely wounds and is often saved via invuln.

 

Inceptors dropped in via grav chutes were awesome when combined with Tactical Doctrine. 18 shots at S5, AP -2 are great. I'm thinking of focusing on this tactic for some of my future lists. Reivers with carbines, more Inceptors, etc.

 

Our Chapter Tactics get nullified by opposing Doctrines, and it stinks. I know the alternative is taking models away with no save at all against things like Lascannons, but it felt pretty useless at times.

 

Whirlwinds using the Suppression Fire strat are good during Devastator Doctrine.

 

Duty Eternal is also great. My Venerable took a total of four wounds from a full volley of fire from a Repulsor Executioner after the strat and good Venerable saves.

 

I gave Lament to one of my Primaris Lieutenants. It hits hard, but is limited by not being a sniper weapon.

 

I'm excited to try the new supplement strats. And to build more Phobos and grav chute units.

[thewarriorhunter]

Final game was against Iron Hands. Three Repulsor Executioners, Chapter Master, LT, tons of Aggressors, and token infantry units.

He won a narrow victory, but could have had me tabled in two or three turns if he hadn't leashed the trio of Executioners to his buffbots. It severely limited his firepower options because of all the LOS blocking terrain on the board.

 

 

And as good as everyone says the IH are I think is this a key takeaway. They're going to be good if they keep everything bubbled up. As long as you're not playing on planet bowling ball you'll be able to severely mitigate their effectiveness.

[MajorNese]

A nice combo I found, that might throw in a major wrench in any deep striking list:

 

We all know that Infiltrators have a nice anti-DS bubble, making them also immune to charge from deep strike. Which would make them the natural target, if facing such a list and deploying these guys where they are desperately needed, be it around a vital unit or on an important objective.

 

But they are still only primaris when it comes to resilience, and people increasingly gear towards being able to deal with them. Now, to have these guys survive until DS becomes relevant, we can combine 3 things: Deploying them in cover (RG -1 to hit), throw smoke (-1 to hit, no shooting) and "See, but remain unseen" (1CP, -1 to hit, no shooting). That way we sacrifice a round of shooting (which is weak anyway), but in turn get an eldar-like -3 to hit with 2+ armour. Needless to say, that unit will either be ignored alltogether, or only routed by auto-hitting weapons/smite/cc. Which few can do reliably in one turn.

 

If terrain is not available where needed, we can still get to -2 to hit and 2+ armour, so Infiltrators might become a bit more interesting than they are on paper. Heck, we could even charge them into something in the backfield and still get that -2 (neither strat nor smoke grenades prevent CC, only shooting), so even if your opponent disengages he'll need considerable firepower to wipe out these guys. Or have them lock up stuff again next turn.

[Dracos]

Awesome analysis and use of resources MajorNese. I’ve recently come to a similar conclusion and have decided to almost totally revamp my overall strategy based on forcing myself to put two units into my 2k list. The cost kept throwing me off but I think the more , more of us do what you have done here , we will be seeing combinations that really work to our favor. Only with RG would I have picked Infiltrators over Scouts. Thank you Corax ... and MajorNese ;)

[thewarriorhunter]

Do negative hit modifiers affect overwatch?

 

So does a -2 to hit mean they need to be able to overwatch on 4's?

[duz_]

No negatives don't count but bonuses do

 

So u always hit on a 6 but if you have bonuses apply to overwatch then you can hit on lower values

 

Eg. IG, Tau and IH bonuses will let you hit on 5s occasionally 4s

[dode74]

No negatives don't count but bonuses do

 

So u always hit on a 6 but if you have bonuses apply to overwatch then you can hit on lower values

 

Eg. IG, Tau and IH bonuses will let you hit on 5s occasionally 4s

I'm going to be pedantic now.

 

Overwatch only ever hits on a 6 unless there is a specific rule (usually an ability) which allows overwatch to hit on something else (such as the Tau and IH you mention).

 

Bonuses and maluses apply to the overwatch hit roll and can proc other effects.  A -1 to hit will cause Plasma to overheat on a 1 or 2 on overwatch, for example, and a +1 to hit will cause snipers to MW on a 5 or 6 *even though the 5 is a miss*.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Heck, we could even charge them into something in the backfield and still get that -2 (neither strat nor smoke grenades prevent CC, only shooting), so even if your opponent disengages he'll need considerable firepower to wipe out these guys. Or have them lock up stuff again next turn.

 

See, but Remain Unseen has two requirements: The unit cannot attack (at all, melee or ranged), and you play it at the end of your turn. And it only mitigates against Ranged Attacks. It's a great stratagem, but unfortunately the restrictions are quite tight.

[MajorNese]

Yep, end of the turn. When you probably know if your opponent wants to pull out of CC and shoot your guys. I never assumed it would be working in CC, so yeah, you have to charge stuff that won't hit back that hard. Which should be the case with some backfield shooty units.

 

And yes, the options to disrupt and annoy your opponent add up slowly. We're not Iron Hands, our useful stuff is not that straight-forward.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Yep, end of the turn. When you probably know if your opponent wants to pull out of CC and shoot your guys. I never assumed it would be working in CC, so yeah, you have to charge stuff that won't hit back that hard. Which should be the case with some backfield shooty units.

 

And yes, the options to disrupt and annoy your opponent add up slowly. We're not Iron Hands, our useful stuff is not that straight-forward.

 

I must have misunderstood you. You say "pull out of CC" meaning you're talking about having said RG unit in CC, which means it attacked in your Assault Phase. If it attacked in your assault phase, it cannot have See but Remain Unseen activated on it at the end of your turn.

[MajorNese]

Ah, you're right - I remembered it as making no shooting attacks, but it does say no attacks at all. So it only works for deep strike blocking and setting up next turn charges, not in CC. So, if entering CC that we expect our opponent to pull out again, we can only combine smoke grenades and terrain for -2.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Regardless of the ruling, your point is still mega-valid.

 

One of my favorite interactions with SBRU (See But Remain Unseen) is how effective it is with melee dedicated units. Being able to jump 10 Vanguard Veterans up into cover in the middle of the board on your opponents doorstep, pop SBRU on them is stellar. Guard can't shoot them, marines hit on 5s, etc.

 

Fun fact about the strategem: It doesn't restrict to Infantry. You can get some pretty wild interactions with armored targets and the like if you're willing to forgo shooting - especially if the unit has smoke launchers.

[thewarriorhunter]

I just picked up the supplement and both the marine and Raven guard data cards. I'm looking forward to cranking them open when I get home.

[WAR]

I picked up my marine cards and codex Thursday and have slowly been digesting it.....I want my incursors tho....I have no real reason why tho

[MajorNese]

Finished the Ex Tenebris lieutenant for Corax Command(os). And I've got a game planned for friday. And since my list building was showing a certain lack of mobility, I spontaneously bought Shrike. Guess who will be done until Friday...

 

At least I have the full complement of Eliminators ready for a field test. It's against IH, so that will be an interesting take on how accurate the internet opinion is about "stellar vs. crap" CT - or rather "straight-forward vs. tricksy".

[WAR]

sounds fun