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New & Improved Flesh is Weak!

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#1
Iron Father Ferrum

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So brothers, our Chapter Tactics have seen an upgrade!


1. Vehicles get Chapter Tactics.
2. 6+ FNP
3. Overwatch on 5+
4. Double remaining wounds on chart to determine stats for vehicles

So. Aside from not fixing the overlapping FNP on Ven Dreads, this is huge for us - especially for the tougher tanks like Land Raiders and Vindicators. They will live longer and maintain effectiveness longer; assuming Machine Empathy stays the same, they'll continue to be mobile as well.

Anyone else feel reinvigorated on our Chapter?
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#2
WarriorFish

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Aside from vehicles finally getting the CT love they also benefit a lot, that extra reliability is going to make a big difference later game (or sometimes, early...). This is quite a nice boost compared to before.

 

Granted, better is relative and wasn't particularly hard compared to before but I'm pleased with this. I can see it yielding results in a resolute wall of ceramite holding back the hordes. This feels like a nice shot in the arm so I can see my Marines getting on the table more for it smile.png

 

If we can see some point adjustments here and there then I'll be happy, but as I always say best to hope for the best but expect the worst tongue.png After all, GW still missed the Venerable Dread bit - but who knows perhaps the Ven got a rules change? Prove us wrong GW laugh.png


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#3
THUNDERFISTS

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I'm pretty pumped for this! Having favored the IH tactic in the past, it just always felt like playing with a hand tied compared to Ultras and RG. Now it looks like you can roll out some heavy armor and actually have a chance.

 

Going to wait until more is revealed (points, IH specific upgrade sprue, character) and then pull the trigger. 


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#4
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch

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Oh boy, oh boy oh boy!

Iron's back on the menu, boys!

Doubly-effective Overwatch is just stellar, I must say (especially depending on if they kept the warlord trait the same). I've gotten lucky with overwatches before, and I'm now even more excited for additional luck and success on OW.

 

Also vehicles ignoring wounds and being at full effectiveness longer is even better. 

 

I do wish they'd fixed ven dreads, but given my only one is pretty much irreperably broken, it's more a principle matter than a practical one.

 

I wonder when the IH supplement will be released.


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#5
CaptainMarsh

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A fantastic Tactic that fits the Iron Hands.


Pieces of paper for impassable terrain? My main problem with all of this is it really takes away from the game. A giant sheet of white paper on the table sort of breaks the theme of tiny fake armies running around tiny fake locales.

Real men play Adepta Sororitas!


#6
RandomMarine

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I'm exceedingly happy with the update to the chapters tactics my primaries horde list gets better due to the overwatch buff and the dreads and treads from the table buff.

As for when we'll get our supplement I imagine we'll be the first of the next wave as we've seen out character already

#7
Charlo

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Redemptors will be pretty worth it in IH now! Tough to shift and very effective for much longer.



#8
Raktra

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"HELLO I AM AN IRON HANDS LEVIATHAN, PREPARE TO BEND THE :cuss OVER."

Good God I am excite.


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#9
THUNDERFISTS

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To go with all the new stuff I’m thinking something like:

Primaris captain
Primaris Lt.
techmarine

Intercessors x10, Powerfist
Intercessors x10, Powerfist
Intercessors x10, Powerfist

Redemptor dakka x2

Mortis Contemptor lascannons x2

Repulsor lascannons, stormbolters x2

The Calculus of Battle indeed!

#10
momerathe

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I don't know how I feel about this. One the one hand the CT is fantastic and fits perfectly with the primaris mechanised infantry list I am (very, very slowly) painting.

 

On the other hand, the internets have already declared IH the new hotness and you can expect a wholesale migration from Raven Guard. I liked them before they were cool, dammit!

 

On the other other hand, the CT is probably a bit over-stacked, and would have been good even without the overwatch buff.



#11
Iron Father Ferrum

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There was a great migration to the Iron Hands as the new hotness in 6th Efition too when our characters became nigh-unkillable and gave rise to the "Smash :cuss er." The true believers survived that event, we can survive this one.

I'm just grateful that my heavily mechanized playstyle is better now than it was a year ago.
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#12
WarriorFish

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I think the CTs are all solid, but I wouldn't put IH as top of the pack. UM's was good before now it applies to vehicles even more so, BT's looks quite tasty and Sallies probably takes the top spot comfortably? It's not like some people on the Internet saying something makes it so either tongue.png If we're talking who wins the most improved then that would be a different matter :lol:

 

As IFF says the weak will be naturally weeded out over time - only the strong remain msn-wink.gif Same in that my vehicles struggling to achieve results was unpleasant; now I can have much more reliability from them which will help them get into my lists smile.png


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#13
Ishagu

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Iron Hands are massive winners with these new Tactics. Easily some of the strongest.

Hopefully they'll be major players on the tabletop once the Iron Father and dedicated supplament is released. I imagine there will be many ways of boosting durability of units even further.

I'm theory the Ultras are strong but the negative modifiers really impact the units that disengage. Regular tanks like a Predator are easy to surround so they can't leave combat and if reduced to a lower bracket they might not be able to hit anything even if they get a chance to.

The overwatch on a 5+ is more useful.

Edited by Ishagu, 06 August 2019 - 11:32 AM.

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#14
Iron Father Ferrum

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I cconsider the Overwatch buff pure gravy. It's still better to charge than be charged in most instances because you get to strike first. I can build an army around FNP and damage chart mitigation; the Overwatch buff is incidental.

As I'm thinking about it, I actually feel it'll be more useful on tanks than on infantry anyway. Something like my LRR or Vindicators will appreciate it more given their comparatively short ranges and the usual tactic of tying up vehicles in close combat.
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#15
Ishagu

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Anything with lots of Dakka greatly benefits. I think Redemptors and Repulsors will not be attractive to charge, and especially as they maintain the top profile of performance for so long.

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#16
Johanhgg

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Ive always felt that IH CT wasnt bad before but rather good, and now its even better. Happy days for my Iron Hands.
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#17
MajorNese

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Finally it actually helps to have larger IH vehicles. Previously, the IH strat only buffed smaller vehicles (larger have PotMS), that didn't really make sense.

 

Rolling the additional buffs into the existing FnP makes sense - the RG buff does more for resilience in the righ circumstances (instead of the fixed 1/6 decrease in incoming firepower), but both the damage bracket thing and the overwatch buff perfectly fit the fluff AND integrate with the playstyle. Which fits nicely with the Macrocarid AdMech-themed LandRaider I'm currently building.

 

The overwatch buff on its own might be useful, but combine it with a Chapter Master buff and it racks up to a 55% hit chance. Dakka Redemptors for example will profit a lot from that, considering most opponents actually want to tie it up, even if they can't kill it in CC. Less so with the new tanks (fly -> fall back and shoot as normal), but there's enough CC-centered stuff out there to make it come into play.


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#18
Charlo

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"HELLO I AM AN IRON HANDS LEVIATHAN, PREPARE TO BEND THE censored.gif OVER."

Good God I am excite.

 

As it should be brother!


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#19
autek mor

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time to go through your imperial armour books and write shopping lists. hello landraider achilles....


Edited by autek mor, 06 August 2019 - 04:14 PM.


#20
MegaVolt87

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time to go through your imperial armour books and write shopping lists. hello landraider achilles....

 

Yeah if I was in GW finance, I would be kicking behinds to get IH contemptor and levi FW models ready lol


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#21
TrawlingCleaner

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Looking at what the other chapters have been given, I think it's fair to say that in the supplement we'll also likely get around 16 stratagems and our own librarius discipline. I'm all for that but apart from the forgefather, what else is going to be in that book?

#22
Ishagu

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Looking at what the other chapters have been given, I think it's fair to say that in the supplement we'll also likely get around 16 stratagems and our own librarius discipline. I'm all for that but apart from the forgefather, what else is going to be in that book?


Tenchomancy?

You'll be looking at 16 Strats, 8 relics, 6 Warlord traits, 6 psychic powers, unique doctrine perks, lots of lore, Iron Father

Maybe a unique upgrade or two for vehicles?

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#23
ERJAK

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I'm OoTL one Vendreads+Flesh is weak. Do they not stack and if so, why not?

#24
WarriorFish

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Feel No Pain style extra saves after losing a wound were FAQ'd to only be allowed one, so for IH Ven Dreads they don't gain from the Chapter Tactic due to having the same roll as a unit (technically you pick one roll, but they're the same here). Page 1 of the rulebook FAQ here, centre right under "Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds" thumbsup.gif


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#25
PJ1933

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Is a named IH character going to be a step too far for the new book?

I'm not sure why I've even asked that question lol




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